But most of the$e add-ons will add up
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| Author | Content |
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| flufferbeer Feb 20, 2016 10:38 PM EDT |
You spend at least $40 USD for the current RPi (tax+shipping), then you almost HAVE TO purchase the power supply, the SD card of sufficient capacity, the necessary data cables (USB, video), a USB hub, ...etc. And after all this, you are "suggested" in this articleto purchase one or more gotta-have-it add-ons. If all you want to do is some non-tinkering/non-"making", non-HW computing tasks like learning coding, going online, doing multimedia, ...etc, then it seems to me that it's almost better to purchase an inexpensive laptop than a Pi, what with the cost of the RPi itself plus all the necessary and suggested add-ons piled onto it. 2c |
| JaseP Feb 20, 2016 10:56 PM EDT |
I think you are missing the point entirely... The whole purpose of the thing is to see what you can do with a (very) inexpensive computer. HW tinkering aside... It also lets you play around with creating a tiny print/file server, or a whole host of other applications... There is (very soon) going to come a time when the difference in computing power between a high end ARM and a low end Intel or AMD is going to evaporate. At that point, it would help to have a little experience working with the architecture. Besides, a complete Cana Kit can be had for $75, which includes everything except keyboard, mouse and monitor (which everyone should have, even if the monitor is just a cheap TV). |
| dotmatrix Feb 20, 2016 11:06 PM EDT |
@flufferbeer... I agree entirely. An OK laptop with a screen included will probably run about $350.00.... However, it will come with a Windows license and a warranty that becomes void if Windows is wiped and GNU/Linux is installed -- and probably WIN 'hardware' that may not function with GNU/Linux. The RPi excels at being an Ethernet-to-device interface. For example, you can connect a USB printer to one and viola! you have a network printer though CUPS. Or you can connect a USB scanner and viola! you have a networked scan function through saned. https://wiki.debian.org/SaneOverNetwork However, I've found the RPi lacking when attempting to use it as a primary computing interface. I suppose there are some people who do try to use it as primary... but cost effectively a laptop is probably a better option with its included screen, battery, more plentiful and more functional peripherals, and a solidly built case. |
| flufferbeer Feb 20, 2016 11:17 PM EDT |
@JaseP >> I think you are missing the point entirely... The whole purpose of the thing is to see what you can do with a (very) inexpensive computer. But YOU are almost entirely discarding MY point. My point is that with each ACCUMULATING Pi-in-the-$ky "see what you can do with it" add-on, the final and actual Total Cost o' that "computer" with add-ons just ain't so triviall Turns out to not be so "inexpensive" as you might lead others to believe after all! Buuuuuut......, I too also expect "the difference in computing power between a high end ARM and a low end Intel or AMD is going to evaporate." Hence the falling prices of laptops with EITHR architecture will make laptops an even BETTERr cost-effective option than the Total Cost$ of that add-on loaded Pi! Then the HWbloat of the present for the increasingly add-on loaded Pi mimics the detestable SW bloat of yesteryear (M$ programs' bloatware and featuritis) 2 more c's |
| JaseP Feb 20, 2016 11:35 PM EDT |
Quoting: An OK laptop with a screen included will probably run about $350.00.... However, it will come with a Windows license and a warranty that becomes void if Windows is wiped and GNU/Linux is installed -- and probably WIN 'hardware' that may not function with GNU/Linux. It's been about 10 years since I've seen a laptop that won't work 100% with Linux. Maybe specialty devices, you might have a point,... But again, it's been quite a while since I've seen a device like that (a have a Viliv S5 that's gathering dust,... circa 2006/7). Quoting: But YOU are almost entirely discarding MY point. My point is that with each ACCUMULATING Pi-in-the-$ky "see what you can do with it" add-on, the final and actual Total Cost o' that "computer" with add-ons just ain't so triviall Turns out to not be so "inexpensive" as you might lead others to believe after all! Find me a new laptop (non-Chromebook) for under $200... Then I'll concede your point... |
| dotmatrix Feb 20, 2016 11:46 PM EDT |
>Find me a new laptop (non-Chromebook) for under $200... Then I'll concede your point... Find me a RPi + 500 GB storage + screen + battery + case + power supply + keyboard + touch pad + wireless + 64 bit processing + complete access to amd64 distro-pre-compiled software + 4GB RAM + bluetooth + DVD RW for $350.00 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834297402 And I think you'll have won the argument that the RPi is a cheap all purpose computing platform for the general user. EDIT**** By my simplistic calculations: 35 RPi 60 screen 15.52 for wifi 8.90 for case 25 for camera 30 for 2 Amp power supply 43 external HDD 30 for DVD RW 50 battery ---------------------- Total 297.42 without 3 separate shipping charges. From multiple vendors: element14.com ... for Rpi, screen, wifi, case, camera newegg.com ... for HDD, DVD adafruit.com ... for battery The power supply is a guess. The screen is a 7" touch screen. All components are independent and the system is not very portable. **** I'd pay the extra $50 for a fully integrated experience as well as the benefits of 64 bit computing and the SATA drive access. |
| JaseP Feb 21, 2016 9:52 AM EDT |
Who ever aid anything about a cheap general access computer for the average user?!?! The Raspberry Pi machines are tinkerer's toys... That's what they are all about. If someone is going to turn one into a laptop, the experience is more about building a laptop from scratch than cost effectiveness vs. buying a laptop. A Raspberry Pi is more like building a kit car than about going to the used car lot and finding a cheap, reliable car... If nothing about the Raspberry Pi appeals to you, you simply aren't the target market for the device... |
| dotmatrix Feb 21, 2016 11:11 AM EDT |
@JaseP: Yeah... I love the RPi for tinkering. I think that was flufferbeer's point, though... I guess we all agree. Internet forum misunderstanding -- I don't think that has ever happened before. |
| penguinist Feb 21, 2016 1:25 PM EDT |
First and foremost, the RPi is an embedded computing platform. What distinguishes it from a desktop or a notebook computer is the fact that it has a 40 pin I/O connector which we can use to monitor and control our world. I've been using the RPi as my go-to device for a nice variety of embedded tasks including HVAC control, security cameras, HDTV media box, indoor/outdoor temp/humidity monitoring/logging, solar charge controller, lawn sprinkler control, and a wifi-connected li-ion powered robotic camera (it can be sent out on photo recon missions). These things are cheap enough to be deployed wherever and whenever we have a task to automate. One great feature of a pure Linux-based embedded control system is that we are free to be in full control of our own systems. There needs to be no vendor involved with offers of "cloud services" or other secret back-channel accesses. At last count I had 14 RPis doing various functions in locations separated by a few hundred miles. Each one has access to the others through secure ssh certificate-authenticated communication, and each is administered from my notebook wherever in the world I happen to be at the moment. So yes, it would be possible to use an RPi to create something like a notebook computer, but as pointed out by the other LXer forum contributors, that would just be missing the point. If you want a notebook then buy a notebook, if you want an embedded system to interface with your "world" then buy an RPi-class device. |
| flufferbeer Feb 21, 2016 1:32 PM EDT |
@dotmatrix, >> I'd pay the extra $50 for a fully integrated experience as well as the benefits of 64 bit computing and the SATA drive access. A fully INTEGRATED experience; now it seems to me that THIS is the key background to our points. As separate (and sometimes expen$ive) add-on components become INTEGRATED/built-in into computers, then the computers get more powerful and prices go down. While not as tinkerable as the Pi, modern laptops with their heavy Integration of add-on components are PORTABLE and offer PLENTY of increasingly inexpensive computer processing power for software-heavy tasks. Many modern laptops still allow we users to easily upgrade internal memory aas well as to replace the fast, internal HDD with higher capacity ones ------ which is certainly NOT the case with the Pi! OTOH, As equivalent to the current and increa$$$$ingly add-on heavy Pi as a primary computing device, I betcha some of us still remember shelling out major fund$$ to have the Tinkerers Delight of DIYassembling and modding our own desktop PCs. Tinkerers Assembly Delight ---- DIY desktop PC vs DIY Pi comparson: ATX formfactor motherboard (Pi unit) + ATX Case (Pi case) + ATX p.s.u. (USB power brick, microUSB cable, powered USB hub for the Pi) + Ethernet 100+ network card (USB WiFi add-on for original Pi's, Ethernet add-on for newer Pi's) + TV tuner card (USB TV tuner for Pi) + other motherboard add-on cards or risers (other "suggested" USB or GPIO add-on$ for the Pi) + one or more fast, hi-capacity, internal SATA HDDs (SD card size-upgrade, larger but slower external USB HDD for the Pi) + internal DVD-RW optical drive (USB external DVD-RW, USB 2.0+ thumbdrive(s) for the Pi) + maxed-out RAM (permanently fixed to lower levels on Pi) + powerful hi-GPU/hi-memory display card (permanently fixed to lower levels on Pi) + hi-channel audio card (permanetly fixed to a lower level on Pi) + 64 bit CPU (non-modifiable ARM built into Pi) So NO, the few of us who haven't transferred our HW-heavy Tinkerer$$$ Delight from DIY desktop PC assembly and modding onto the addon-UNINTEGRATABLE Pi most certainly "aren't the target market for the device..." yet more 2c's |
| gus3 Feb 21, 2016 7:41 PM EDT |
Before the Raspberry Pi, could a 4-year-old ever actually build an affordable (and reasonably durable) laptop from a kit? For that matter, could most adults build a laptop for less than the typical price-point of a typical laptop? I suggest a re-read of Ken Starks' article, "A Tinker's D@mn is Worth More Than You Think." The next generation of peripherals won't design themselves. The design skills needed are sadly lacking in my generation (PC's and Macs), and in the next as well (think PlayStation and Xbox). Today's youngsters need to be exposed to the bare-bones, in order to lay the groundwork for tomorrow's innovations. So phooey on you nay-sayers. Oh, and BTW, the ARM in the BCM 2708/2835 is 32-bit, data and address alike. |
| dotmatrix Feb 21, 2016 7:51 PM EDT |
>So phooey on you nay-sayers. I'm definitely not a naysayer on the RPi. It's a great product, it's just not cost effective as a general purpose computing platform. >Oh, and BTW, the ARM in the BCM 2708/2835 is 32-bit, data and address alike. I suppose this is in reference to my 64-bit computing. I realize the RPi is 32 bit, that's why I threw in the 64-bit computing comment... there's no method to upgrade the RPi to 64-bit or 4 GB of RAM or SATA. So, speaking for myself, I love the RPi as an embedded system or an Ethernet-to-Device device. And agree wholly with penguinist: penguinist wrote:If you want a notebook then buy a notebook, if you want an embedded system to interface with your "world" then buy an RPi-class device. |
| flufferbeer Mar 06, 2016 3:12 PM EDT |
BTW, even with the RPi3 that recently came out, you STILL have to $hell out some serious dough for those CONSTANTLY accumulating "gotta-have-it add-ons". AAMOF, the Pi Foundation ppl are now "recommending a 2.5A adapter if you want to connect power-hungry USB devices to the Raspberry Pi", so getting that is yet another must-have purchase (although minimal). fb |
| CFWhitman Mar 07, 2016 9:54 AM EDT |
I think the most limiting factor for the Raspberry Pi 2 or later as a cheap basic desktop computer is the limit on the RAM. Depending on what you already have, it can cost you anywhere from about $40 to over $200. The most likely thing for you not to already have is a 2+ Amp micro USB power supply. Of course, the more parts you already have, the less likely it is that you're desperate for cheap desktop hardware. Also, old computers that are still more powerful can often be acquired at a competitive price when the needed peripherals are taken into consideration. The biggest advantage to a Pi in that circumstance would be low power usage. I don't think anyone claimed that a Pi makes a cost-effective laptop solution. Clearly the Pi is more effective as a media client / smart TV device, or the brains behind some kind of do it yourself project. |
| JaseP Mar 07, 2016 7:39 PM EDT |
The main things limiting the Pi in terms of a media client/smart TV device are the lack of specific software/apps (read: the correct OS) for that sort of thing, as well as lack of development in terms of video drivers (getting a Pi to output at the correct video mode can be an exercise in trial and error). Android is a better choice for that. I tried out XBMC/Kodi on my Ouya, and the experience was just OK... Unfortunately, Hulu Plus cannot be effectively side loaded to the device because of display issues involved with logins to the service (It wants the auto-rotate the device which screws up input). Using the Pi as a set-top box is more limiting, because you pretty much just have Plex & Kodi. And Android smart TV stick and/or a Chromecast is a better option at that point. I personally see the Pi as a better network infrastructure device,... File/Print/Fax/Media server, and/or home automation device. I could see a real business built around developing small, cheap, ARM powered network devices for home and small business. I'd love to see a specialized Pi built with 2 high speed NICs for networking (router/DNS/DHCP/firewalling)... |
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