Ms. Dainty strikes again
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| flufferbeer Oct 06, 2015 10:23 PM EDT |
It's too bad for Linux that Sarah's daintiness over the blunt Rough and Tough swearing prohibits her from continuing to directly work with Torvald's Kernel dev community. Hers seems to be a Protest Quit, although I'd EASILY guess she'll soon find an Open Source community more to her own liking and then contribute some great things there! 2c |
| jacog Oct 07, 2015 2:47 PM EDT |
Or maybe the Linux kernel community is just a writhing mound of toxic jerks and she did the sane thing. Knowing how people are I'm going to go with that. Good on her. |
| gus3 Oct 07, 2015 4:01 PM EDT |
And then there's Matthew Garrett. There's a huge pool of talent to draw from. If I were part of that pool (I'm not), I wouldn't want to use my talents where the most likely feedback is vile insults. |
| caitlyn Oct 07, 2015 6:05 PM EDT |
I agree with jacog and gus3. The sexism and homophobia she refers to is way too common and dismissing it with comments like "political correctness" or dismissing her as "Ms. Dainty" only emphasizes the toxic nature of that community. Sadly, the problem is far more widespread than the kernel devs. |
| penguinist Oct 07, 2015 6:32 PM EDT |
I've always had the greatest respect and admiration for Linus and I really hope he can work his way through this. For my part though I think that it is possible to deal with people respectfully and still keep a team together. I've never been comfortable with the toxic environment that he seems to feel he needs to maintain. Of course, he will continue to lose more good people if he can't come to terms with this. Then again, he is Linus and I am only the Penguinist. :) |
| BernardSwiss Oct 07, 2015 7:27 PM EDT |
I am awaiting a new version of the classic xkcd comic (the new version would go like this): "It's late. Come to bed, dear." "I can't. Somebody on the Internet might be getting their feelings hurt." - - - - - Not that there aren't genuine problems. Yes, that includes sexism and homophobia. But some people seem more into leading the fight, than into the issue. Some of the "managerial/management/leadership manuals" I read way back when, tended to describe these sorts as "firefighters" or "knights in shining armor" types; more about leading the charge than the problem itself -- and as likely to up fanning the flames as to solve any problem. (Well... after all... you need a crisis before you can save the day). I've seen a few of these in other groups, and in other workplaces... People who get offended on other people's behalf, over trivial, likely misunderstood or misrepresented "incidents", are generally not "Social Justice" heroes, but simply Drama Queens. And often enough the "victim" themselves may not even realize they're a victim. Though after their plight is explained to them it's a roll of the dice whether they'll be persuaded or not... Perhaps they'll suddenly understand how badly they've been treated, or see that they're not alone and powerless, after all -- but perhaps they'll simply decide their "rescuer" is a clueless patronizing, busybody, rather than helpful in any way. - - - - - There were some interesting points raised in the other article posted on LXer, about the details of this particular brouhaha with Sarah Sharp (which seem to accord with what few specifics I now still recall). http://www.itworld.com/article/2989588/linux/linux-is-sarah-... This particular case appears (to me) to be a tempest in a teapot -- one caused by the complainant's own spoon agitating the contents. . |
| AwesomeTux Oct 07, 2015 11:17 PM EDT |
Everybody wrote:sexism and homophobia Oh, please. I don't agree with Linus' style, nor do I agree with him or the community often about anything really. I will, however, defend them against baseless accusations as serious as sexism and homophobia. Please, would someone, anyone, find me one instance of Linus himself or the community making sexist and/or homophobic statements, and where they were simply ignored/allowed. Because over the years I've seen many people make the claim that something Linus said was "sexist" without providing any rationale. I can't remember them all, but one of them was when Linus said something like "this isn't a dick sucking contest", to which Máirín Duffy responded saying that kind of statement kept women out of Open Source, when she wasn't even the one he was talking to. Not like it was an analogy for "doing something that only pleases the two parties involved and no one else", no it couldn't be. Not like full grown women in I.T. should be mature enough to read a dick analogy/joke and not be offended, no you're being silly. It's clearly sexism, and Torvalds is clearly a misogynist who hates women. Obviously he's not, and I've yet to see any sexism or homophobia. If anyone can find any instance, I will gladly change my opinion. |
| caitlyn Oct 08, 2015 12:49 AM EDT |
Someone didn't read the article and is trying to make an issue that is different from what Sarah Sharp claimed. She NEVER accused Linus of sexism or homophobia. She accused him of tolerating sexist and homophobic comments from others. Can you refute that charge, Awesome Tux? Are you saying none of that exists among the kernel devs? |
| AwesomeTux Oct 08, 2015 1:40 AM EDT |
caitlyn, please first prove there is sexist or homophobic statements being made that are also being tolerated. I'm not saying she's targeting Linus, I'm just saying others have. She is at least accusing him of allowing that kind of behavior on the mailing lists, thereby also insinuating that Linus endorses the supposed sexism and homophobia. This is the internet, sexism, racism, and homophobia are all very common. We can't stop people from saying whatever they want, all we can do is speak against it, and if the LKML is doing that, there isn't much else they can do. |
| caitlyn Oct 08, 2015 9:10 AM EDT |
The point she made is that the LKML is not speaking out against it and that it's pervasive in their culture. There is a saying in Yiddish that translates as "a fish rots from the head." The accusation that Linus does allow that behavior is, from what I can tell, entirely accurate. |
| AwesomeTux Oct 08, 2015 11:06 AM EDT |
caitlyn, without proof that this "pervasive sexist and homophobic culture" even exists on LKML nobody is going to do anything about it. And from what I've seen, there isn't any more "offensive" language on LKML than there is on Twitter, and I've not seen anyone ever bring any evidence that there is anything more severe than that. In other words, it's the internet. |
| jacog Oct 08, 2015 11:22 AM EDT |
We should tolerate it in one place because it exists in another place? No, AwesomeTux. No. Just, no. People tend to talk to one another online in ways they would never do face to face. This is a problem, because these are actual people. "it's the internet" is a lame way to excuse this sort of stuff. |
| AwesomeTux Oct 08, 2015 11:51 AM EDT |
jacog, I think you misinterpreted what I said. Twitter isn't a bad place, the overwhelming majority of the time people are completely nice and civil, a smaller portion of the time people disagree with one another in what some might call "harsh" tones, maybe even a "you suck", "that's stupid", etc. And then there's the tiny minority of straight up insults bordering on death threats (or actual death threats). All but the last portion of communication is completely acceptable. (Personally, I would say even the last one is acceptable as long as they don't intend to act on it or incite others to.) "It's the internet", is a perfectly acceptable excuse, it's one of the only places people can be harsh and speak the truth. And again, that's all people are doing on LKML, giving each other the hard truth. If you can find me some genuine sexism and/or homophobia on LKML I will gladly admit I was wrong. |
| AwesomeTux Oct 08, 2015 12:00 PM EDT |
To be clear, I'm only defending the LKML folks against the "sexism and homophobia" statement. Linus, and everyone seemingly influenced by him, cuss people out and criticize them harshly for what amounts to giving them code, as a gift, that wasn't good enough. They act like spoiled children. Needless to say I disagree with the idea that that is the only way or best way to run a community. It's the labeling them as sexists and homophobes without evidence that I have a problem with. You don't up and quit, leaving while calling everyone sexists without having provided any evidence for such a claim. |
| notbob Oct 08, 2015 1:52 PM EDT |
Reminds me of a time when a coworker told me I talk too loud. She would not let me make my point unless I lowered my voice and she continued to harp on the volume of my voice until I finally gave up and walked away. I later realized it was merely a control mechanism. The fact is, I was not raising my voice from the volume I always speak at. But, her real intent was clear: she would not allow me to continue until I conceded to her demand. That's what I see in this case. If Miss Dainty cannot have her way, she's gonna take her ball and go home. Fine by me. She hasn't left yet? |
| caitlyn Oct 08, 2015 5:03 PM EDT |
The people who are dismissing Sarah Sharp's statements are the people I usually describe as part of the problem. Nothing has changed for the better over the last 15 years from what I can see. Make excuses, find reasons to dismiss her, claim it isn't real... Yeah, been there, done that. Bruce Byfield has an interesting take on it: http://www.datamation.com/open-source/the-linux-kernel-and-p... I find that the subculture he describes is very real, is much more conscious than he realizes, and is meant to exclude. |
| albinard Oct 08, 2015 6:56 PM EDT |
It would be instructive for those on this site who deny the prevalence of sexism in the IT community to make a genuine effort to open their minds and ears to their own workplace for one entire day. Do you see it? Do you hear it? You will. Guaranteed you will. |
| notbob Oct 08, 2015 7:11 PM EDT |
> Yeah, been there, done that. Who hasn't!? I got harassed by my CO fer not trimming my mustache short enough. I got pulled over in my junker car --and NOT cited-- 11 times in 2 yrs. Why? Does it matter? I'm now facing higher HOA fees cuz I live here year around. Does anyone care? Not likely. Everyone has problems. Like Linux, Sarah has a choice. Endure it or GTF out! Do I need to hear what her decision is? Apparently, some ppl think I do. |
| albinard Oct 08, 2015 7:21 PM EDT |
Notbob, the Bubba speech you affect in an effort to appear clever, really IS too loud. |
| jdixon Oct 08, 2015 8:04 PM EDT |
> ...the Bubba speech you affect in an effort to appear clever, really IS too loud. Whereas the concerned elder speech you affect really IS too annoying. |
| albinard Oct 09, 2015 12:24 PM EDT |
(Editor: this post was removed for TOS compliance.) |
| notbob Oct 09, 2015 12:36 PM EDT |
The proceeding announcement has probably not been approved by Sarah Sharp. ;) |
| AwesomeTux Oct 09, 2015 12:41 PM EDT |
Wow. |
| jdixon Oct 09, 2015 8:00 PM EDT |
Gee, missed all the fun. Well, if I was the proximate cause of whatever happened, all I can say is, some people can dish it out, but... |
| kikinovak Oct 11, 2015 6:49 AM EDT |
https://twitter.com/kikinovak/status/652253042235035649 |
| jacog Oct 11, 2015 8:10 AM EDT |
Thanks Novak, for such an utterly useless contribution. Also, thanks for illustrating her point so well. |
| jdixon Oct 11, 2015 8:36 AM EDT |
> Also, thanks for illustrating her point so well.... Allow me to quote the relevant tweet. "No one deserves to be shouted or cussed at..." I'll let that comment stand for itself and let each reader decide for themselves whether it's true or not. |
| kikinovak Oct 12, 2015 2:18 AM EDT |
Joking aside, I think this is more of a difference between cultures (Europe vs. US), not a men vs. women issue. Here in Europe, we don't have your constant levels of anal political correctness. And I have much more sympathy for a shouting and swearing Linus than for some passive aggressive entitlement princess whining complaints for any audience in earshot. |
| jacog Oct 12, 2015 6:13 AM EDT |
I am not American. Not entirely sure where the "men vs women" came from, but since you brought it up... There is actually a rather clear visible difference to how mobs respond to men vs women online. If a women says "I received angry phone calls", you can bet there will be hordes of men demanding "proof" or calling her a "drama queen", "over-sensitive", or just more angry yelling. If it were a man, not-so-much. Also, it has nothing to do with "political correctness", it's about manners and common decency. We're not savages. Or maybe we are. And as is usual with these very predictable and tiresome discussions, there are always people crying about "censorship" and "freedom of speech". Paraphrasing a well-known comic - you can say whatever you want, but nobody has to listen to it. Really, if for example someone says "I am Jewish and don't like the anti-semite language used in this forum", the correct response is not to scream at them about how they are being over-sensitive, or "it's just joking around", or "stop being such a social justice warrior" - you listen to what they have to say. It doesn't mean they attacked you and you have to be on the defensive - it just means you adopt a stance of mutual respect. And don't use the word "entitled" to describe someone when your own attitude comes off as someone who is defending their own personal feelings of entitlement. |
| jdixon Oct 12, 2015 8:58 AM EDT |
> Also, it has nothing to do with "political correctness", Well, you see, that's part of the disagreement. Many folks feel that Sarah and those like her have a political agenda and are acting based on that agenda, not in the best interest of Linux. I don't know, so I've tried to stay out of the discussion. Albinard's comment struck as too much of a snarky attack to let stand without comment. > And don't use the word "entitled" to describe someone when your own attitude comes off as someone who is defending their own personal feelings of entitlement. An here we go again. If that doesn't come across as trying to stifle the discussion, I don't know what would. It's effectively saying "other folks are allowed to use that language, but you're not". The only appropriate response to that suggestion isn't appropriate for this forum, but suffice it to say it involves a horse. |
| jacog Oct 12, 2015 9:55 AM EDT |
jdixon - and what is this political agenda? |
| kikinovak Oct 12, 2015 11:48 AM EDT |
@jacog. I admit my Twitter statement was a bit laconic. Here's the full context. http://www.preining.info/blog/2015/10/looking-at-the-facts-s... I also bluntly admit a zero tolerance policy for PCBs (Political Correctness Bullies). Cheers from the rainy South of France. |
| gus3 Oct 12, 2015 12:36 PM EDT |
It might be considered a politically-motivated attack, if it were coming from someone outside the working group with no vested interest in the task list. But this criticism is coming from someone *within* the group, with a very vested interest in making and improving a product that's already excellent. Speaking of "vested interest," would Mr. Torvalds use such filthy language towards Red Hat or IBM kernel developers? Which also suggests, if he did, would any of their bosses/managers push back? IOW, does Linus tread more carefully when he might have to answer for how he treats someone? |
| AwesomeTux Oct 12, 2015 2:45 PM EDT |
gus3 wrote:Which also suggests, if he did, would any of their bosses/managers push back? No. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ If NVIDIA were like Sarah Sharp they wouldn't offer Linux drivers anymore. Yet despite that NVIDIA is still a silver sponsor of the Linux Foundation, you know why? Because adults can be criticized and insulted and still work with the people who offended them. This is true of IBM, Red Hat (who do you think he's criticizing when he bashes GNOME?), Intel, and all of the others. Linus has criticized and insulted probably some developer from every sponsor the kernel has ever seen. Yet they all stick around and -- more importantly -- get along just fine for the most part. |
| cybertao Oct 12, 2015 3:04 PM EDT |
AwesomeTux wrote:Yet they all stick around and -- more importantly -- get along just fine for the most part.That doesn't invalidate Sharp's opinion or validate their conduct. There are likely to be many talented people who didn't stick around. |
| gus3 Oct 12, 2015 3:14 PM EDT |
AwesomeTux, That's almost apples and oranges. It's one thing to insult a corporation, quite another to insult an individual. I'll put it to you this way: I work in a restaurant kitchen. It's owned and run by a rather authoritarian immigrant from the Levant. The point of the business is to sell food to customers. Some of those customers can be petty and difficult, but they're paying customers, right? But I gurarn-d@mn-tee you, if a customer insulted one of our servers the way Linus insults his contributors, that customer would be charged the bill, shown the door, and ordered never to return, under penalty of criminal trespass. |
| AwesomeTux Oct 12, 2015 3:31 PM EDT |
cybertao wrote:likely to be many talented people "Likely" being the key word here. No one has shown any evidence that anyone of any importance or talent has ever left because of the way Linus talked to them. |
| AwesomeTux Oct 12, 2015 3:31 PM EDT |
gus3 wrote:It's one thing to insult a corporation, quite another to insult an individual. I said specifically "Linus has criticized and insulted probably some developer from every sponsor the kernel has ever seen." These corporations aren't -- and can't -- contribute as a single entity, they don't send Linus their patches signed "Intel". They have to -- and do -- work with Linus on an individual basis. If Linus has some nasty words for Intel, NVIDIA, IBM, etc, you will see him tell it directly to the person who wrote the code. It just so happens that seemingly most NVIDIA developers are difficult to work with. |
| cybertao Oct 12, 2015 3:46 PM EDT |
AwesomeTux wrote:"Likely" being the key word here. No one has shown any evidence that anyone of any importance or talent has ever left because of the way Linus talked to them.You can understand why. If they make any complaints they get attacked for being whinny bitches who's SJW opinions don't matter, with the genuine complaint never being addressed. |
| gus3 Oct 12, 2015 4:20 PM EDT |
AwesomeTux wrote:anyone of any importance or talent Until now. Otherwise, the only way to hold up that argument is to declare Sarah Sharp "no one of importance or talent." And, as far as corporations vs. individuals goes, take a look at the email addresses of the contributors. You'll see "ibm.com", "redhat.com", "nvidia.com", and the like in there, along with copyright notices using those email addresses. Company reputations are on the line, along with individual reputations. Some developers are even paid by their employers to develop Linux kernel code. If those companies didn't want their good names sullied by individuals' mis-steps, they'd have policies in place against using such email addresses/contact info on copyrighted material. |
| jdixon Oct 12, 2015 5:29 PM EDT |
> ... and what is this political agenda? Simply Google SJW and read to your heart's content. Given the high profile events that have taken place lately (Brandon Eich, to give just one example), people making such assumptions is somewhat understandable. Not necessarily correct, but understandable. I don't know anything about Sarah or her contributions to the kernel, so I have basis for making judgements on the matter. Nor do I care to take time to do so, given the outside events ongoing in life at the present time. As I said, I've tried to stay out of it, but some of the comments have seemed too much like personal attacks or disqualifications of opinions to me. I've commented on those and I'm answering direct questions about my comments, but given the volatile nature of the discussion I'm trying to limit my participation. |
| AwesomeTux Oct 12, 2015 5:42 PM EDT |
cybertao wrote:You can understand why. If they make any complaints they get attacked for being whinny bitches who's SJW opinions don't matter, with the genuine complaint never being addressed. I don't understand what you're trying to say. But, yes, if you make a complaint without proving it to be genuine, no one should care. It's of no importance. Quite frankly this specific case is all about how one person was offended, and that stopped them from collaborating. If you can't work just because other people think different than yourself, talk different, behave different, or treat people different than how you would, it's no one's fault but your own. Everyone isn't going -- and aren't required nor should be expected -- to agree with you or be nice to you. If you can't work in that environment, leave (as Sarah Sharp rightfully did). If you try to change the community, you are no longer joining it, you are creating a new one. |
| AwesomeTux Oct 12, 2015 5:43 PM EDT |
gus3 wrote:Until now. Otherwise, the only way to hold up that argument is to declare Sarah Sharp "no one of importance or talent." Yes, I am of that opinion. You can go check her commit logs, she is of no importance or talent. I, of course, would never compare myself to her, but I will rightfully compare her to the other developers on LKML, and she places far down on the totem pole. gus3 wrote:And, as far as corporations vs. individuals goes, take a look at the email addresses of the contributors. You'll see "ibm.com", "redhat.com", "nvidia.com" ... Your point? My point was Linus says "F*ck you NVIDIA" far less often than he says "F*ck you <insert developer for NVIDIA here>", the difference is all of the important NVIDIA developers are still contributing while Sarah Sharp left at the first thing slightly resembling cussing between people other than herself. gus3 wrote:If those companies didn't want their good names sullied by individuals' mis-steps, they'd have policies in place against using such email addresses/contact info on copyrighted material. You're making my point here. All of these companies allow their employees to publicly work on Linux in relation with and endorsement of their respective companies and products despite Linus' foul tongue. If they thought his speech was harmful they wouldn't associate their companies with him. |
| cybertao Oct 12, 2015 7:59 PM EDT |
So Sharp made the correct decision by leaving, was correct with the statements made regarding an institutionalised culture of abusive behaviour, but was wrong to make a public complaint about it? |
| AwesomeTux Oct 13, 2015 2:48 AM EDT |
cybertao wrote:Sharp made the correct decision by leaving Yes, if she has a problem, she is right in leaving. cybertao wrote:was correct with the statements made regarding an institutionalised culture of abusive behaviour SHE had a problem. My problem with her is her insisting that what she finds problematic, everyone should find problematic. Not everyone finds Linus' speech all that problematic. It really is a first-world problem to complain about how someone said something mean to you, in fact it's childish. cybertao wrote:but was wrong to make a public complaint about it? No, it was wrong to make accusations without evidence. As far as what has been shown, there isn't any sexism and homophobia being tolerated on LKML. And her complaints about "abusive language" were Linus and a couple of other people having friendly, joking banter between each other, a conversation that didn't even include her. She's wrong on all accounts. But still right in leaving if she wants. |
| jdixon Oct 13, 2015 6:22 AM EDT |
> ...was correct with the statements made regarding an institutionalised culture of abusive behaviour That's the crucial point, isn't it? Obviously there's not agreement on the matter. |
| cybertao Oct 13, 2015 2:12 PM EDT |
jdixon wrote:Obviously there's not agreement on the matter.Not in the case of AwesomeTux, who agrees that there is a culture of abusive behaviour but happens to think that's a constructive working environment. |
| AwesomeTux Oct 13, 2015 3:36 PM EDT |
cybertao, don't put words in my mouth. Unlike the U.N. I don't believe "cybertouch" is the same as a physical touch. That is to say, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." That idea is so obvious, it is part of a nursery rhyme, even children understand it. So, yes and no. Sometimes people NEED to be told very bluntly that the code they wrote is terrible. But no matter how colorful you go with telling them that, it's never abusive. |
| gru Oct 13, 2015 4:08 PM EDT |
Here is a thread where Sarah and Linus (and a few others) argue about respectful language on LKML.
https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/7/15/407 She says she is standing up for people that are easily subdued by strongly typed email language. While I agree that abusive language to subordinates isn't the best long-term way to manage a team, I have seen it achieve amazing short-term results. When you use it consistently as a motivating tool, though, you risk burning your people out or desensitizing them to it. There's a saying from one of my favorite book series that goes “There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” You want people to fear you WHEN you're angry, and respect you when you're not. I know that's not Linus' style, and many other people in leadership roles share the same style as his. We can argue the merits of that style all day, but it achieves nothing. Honestly, I think there needs to be a compromise here. Linus could stand to tone it down a little (only a little), and the targets of his rants could grow some thicker skin and realize that life isn't always easy and sometimes people yell at you. |
| jdixon Oct 13, 2015 9:34 PM EDT |
> Not in the case of AwesomeTux, Not in the case of (at the very least) a significant minority of the population. |
| weareborg Oct 14, 2015 11:33 AM EDT |
After all these discussions and news I read here and there, does anyone has screenshots, etc of the stuff that was said which was offensive and not taken out of context. In the midst of all the whining I cannot find any text which proves that claim. Or am I missing something? |
| AwesomeTux Oct 14, 2015 12:51 PM EDT |
weareborg wrote:After all these discussions and news I read here and there, does anyone has screenshots, etc of the stuff that was said which was offensive and not taken out of context. In the midst of all the whining I cannot find any text which proves that claim. Or am I missing something? kikinovak linked to an article "Looking at the facts: Sarah Sharp’s crusade", in which you can read for yourself how Sarah Sharp acts like a party pooper, throwing the first F-bomb in a friendly conversation not involving her. You will also notice there developers agreeing with Linus' style. As for the "sexism and homophobia" comment Sarah Sharp made, I can't find any proof either. |
| jdixon Oct 14, 2015 6:28 PM EDT |
> Or am I missing something? If you were missing such a thing, don't you think it would have been well documented by someone on Sarah Sharp's side by this point? |
| BernardSwiss Oct 14, 2015 9:02 PM EDT |
>> Or am I missing something? > If you were missing such a thing, don't you think it would have been well documented by someone on Sarah Sharp's side by this point? Ditto. It's not that there aren't any problems -- but Sharp isn't doing anything constructive about them. In fact I'd argue that her actions have been actually counter-constructive. She essentially stuck her oar in, precisely where there wasn't any actual problem -- and she wasn't even in the boat in question. And when told as much, she doubled down instead of re-considering. So she took offense over, and quit over, the plight of "victims" who weren't unhappy, and who didn't need or want help. If you're going to rescue people from "abuse", it helps to be able to distinguish between actual abuse and lighthearted banter between friendly colleagues on good terms with each other. Meanwhile, actual problems and actual people who could use some meaningful support (and those people who'd like to do something to meaningfully support them) are left in a weaker position than before, because their efforts and issues will inevitably be compared to and coloured by the Sarah Sharp incident(s). |
| weareborg Oct 15, 2015 3:20 AM EDT |
The link mentioned doesn't contain any offensive or abusive text, I mean we have more crazy jokes in our office. I can also see how the issue was escalated out of no where. Crazy stuff. |
| jdixon Oct 15, 2015 3:53 AM EDT |
> She essentially stuck her oar in, precisely where there wasn't any actual problem -- and she wasn't even in the boat in question. And when told as much, she doubled down instead of re-considering. The Sarah Sharp opposition can be summed up fairly easily: She's an SJW, and she follows the Three Laws of SJWs. 1. SJWs always lie. 2. SJWs always double down. 3. SJWs always project. See http://www.amazon.com/SJWs-Always-Lie-Taking-Thought-ebook/d... As I said, I don't know enough about her to form a judgment. But given recent events (see http://www.wqxr.org/story/nyc-gilbert-sullivan-troupe-cancel... for one example), I can't blame anyone who makes assumptions. |
| kikinovak Oct 16, 2015 11:40 AM EDT |
Here's the voice of sanity. https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/7/24/142 |
| notbob Oct 16, 2015 1:08 PM EDT |
> Here's the voice of sanity. Hard to determine if this lady is authentic, but I don't care. Now I'm outraged by the 'kick me' incident. I'm not sure what a 'senior staffer' is, but Ida kicked Randy Lehman right square in the nads! OTOH, maybe Palacio was right not to. I hope he wins his suit against Intel. Another reason to believe Sarah's antics are the work of a control freak. Has she quit? Has she sued? Of course not. No mileage in that. |
| notbob Oct 18, 2015 2:20 PM EDT |
My mistake. Susan has "stepped down". http://tinyurl.com/qxnwvqv |
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