The irony of ZDNet
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| seatex Aug 14, 2015 8:33 PM EDT |
While I like seeing this type of article on ZDNet, advising people to switch from Windows to Linux if they value their privacy, ZDNet is one of the worst sites on the net for loading tracking cookies in your browser. Even privacy badger blocked them on my system. So, the article should also recommend avoiding the very site it appears on. |
| the_doctor Aug 14, 2015 10:37 PM EDT |
Ghostery reports blocking 10 trackers on the page in question. |
| Ridcully Aug 15, 2015 6:20 AM EDT |
I looked at this article with enormous interest when I was doing my "editing stuff" and wondered: "Well, you'd stop it all if you uninstalled Cortana." But given Microsoft's uncanny and horrible ability to do things you DON'T want with respect to choice, I wonder if you can - completely. One thing I am certain of: I have to use Win8.1 as part of a project I am involved in.....but I will never, never voluntarily allow Win10 to replace the Win8.1 installation. The more I hear of Win10, the more concerned I get about consumer rights and privacy. If what I am beginning to understand is correct, this software is recording keystrokes, and so the user's passwords to banks, sites, etc. are wide open for Microsoft to scoop up, and by accident, anyone else that Cortana makes a link to without the user's knowledge. When you use Linux, you know that you are in control; when you use Windows, Redmond is in control and running your computer the way it wants. As my daughter just remarked, this seems to be verging on "spyware". Perhaps I am over-reacting and I'd like some comments on the matter because I may be seeing problems that don't really exist. |
| albinard Aug 15, 2015 11:02 AM EDT |
Ridcully, I think the problems you see not only do really exist, I think there are a few aspects of them that are really worrisome. Example: remember that in the NSA revelations there was a whole series of LOVEINT revelations, in which individuals at the NSA spied on lovers, wives, husbands, etc? Well, "Microsoft" is not one great monolith - inside it are humans, who now are responsible for handling all that keystroke/voice/image/whatever information the user involuntarily sends them. Humans being humans, it just ain't safe! In addition, it looks like Microsoft is a port of the NSA. |
| penguinist Aug 15, 2015 11:17 AM EDT |
Quoting:it looks like Microsoft is a port of the NSA I seem to recall that this was actually documented as a fact as a part of the Snowden revelations, but I can't seem to find it. I would love to have a reference to the Snowden document (or media disclosure documenting it). Anyone have it? |
| jdixon Aug 15, 2015 11:20 AM EDT |
> In addition, it looks like Microsoft is a port of the NSA. All of the major corporations are "cooperating" with the NSA. If they didn't, they wouldn't be major corporations anymore. Only a very few companies have had the guts to tell them no, and at least one of them is no longer in business for that very reason. |
| maxxedout Aug 15, 2015 1:56 PM EDT |
I wonder how medical facilities are going to square using Win10 with the HIPAA regulations? |
| Ridcully Aug 15, 2015 8:43 PM EDT |
Here's a little bit of info that I have just received on Win10 and it's worth contemplating. I have a friend who, like myself, is a dedicated Linux user......but his son uses Windows extensively. I would add here that the son is exceptionally computer literate and works as a computing engineer at a university. I passed SJVN's article url on to my friend and suggested that he also send it on to his son. He has just received a reply from his son which in simple terms stated that: "Win10 totally stuffed his computer and he had to reformat and reinstall to get rid of the muck!!" Now that's a recommendation for Win10 that I think Redmond really could do without. Later update: He reinstalled Win7, not Win10. See my next post below for more details. |
| cybertao Aug 16, 2015 8:21 AM EDT |
Ridcully wrote:"Win10 totally stuffed his computer and he had to reformat and reinstall to get rid of the muck!!"He still formatted and reinstalled Windows 10 though. As for the upgrade process, who hasn't seen a version upgrade for their Linux distro go south? Or a mere update in the case of Arch. :-P Some people won't like the privacy issues, most will be oblivious to it (perhaps wilfully). Unfortunately they won't consider using something other than Windows, and if they do it will be OSX. I wonder how different it is from using a phone or tablet. By default it's really difficult to block trackers, advertising, etc. and a lot of the apps are mercenary with permissions and outright malware. Facebook Messenger, anyone? |
| Ridcully Aug 16, 2015 5:33 PM EDT |
Hi cybertao.....I asked my friend for an update on what his son did - and I agree, the quoted text in my post above is not clear as to precisely what OS he put back. NO, he didn't reinstall Win10. What he did was reverted to Win7 and made sure that the Win7 operating system did NOT have the ability to upgrade to Win8 activated. One gets the feeling that Win7 is going to meet the same situation as WinXP eventually did. From what I can see, Win7 appears to be the last version of Windows that behaves "normally" - for a Windows system, that is. I think those who have it installed will fight tooth and comb to keep it running as long as they possibly can. I've been exposed to Win8 - I'd prefer never to go there again. And Win10 is already getting "thumbs down" for various reasons. |
| notbob Aug 16, 2015 6:04 PM EDT |
> who hasn't seen a version upgrade for their Linux distro go south? Myself, for one. I've been using Slackware for the last 14 yrs. I usually upgrade to newest rev, but always do a clean install (security upgrade pkg's the exception). Yes, I've had some minor problems, but Slackware has never caused me to suffer a total failure requiring a full re-install. |
| penguinist Aug 16, 2015 6:51 PM EDT |
It is actually systematically impossible for a Linux version upgrade to fail catastrophically provided the the user makes use of the facilities available. My upgrade scenario looks like this: 1. Boot up from a live disk. 2. Make a full dd backup of my system drive doing something like this: # dd if=/dev/sda of=/mnt/external/20150816.sda.img bs=8M 3. Do fresh install (retaining my existing home directory) 4. Reboot into the new system. 5. Do the normal customization including adding /home to /etc/fstab 6. Evaluate the new system. If I like it I keep it if I don't then roll back to the old one doing something like this (again from a live disk): # dd if=/mnt/external/20150816.sda.img of=/dev/sda bs=8M That's it. The upgrade can never fail catastrophically, there is always a way back. |
| cybertao Aug 16, 2015 7:02 PM EDT |
Ridcully wrote:No, he didn't reinstall Win10. What he did was reverted to Win7 and made sure that the Win7 operating system did NOT have the ability to upgrade to Win8 activated.What a strange response though. The upgrade process, that I assume he actively participated in, didn't work so he rolled back to 7. There are millions of machines that upgraded without issues. To write-off Windows 10 for such a superfluous reason says more about the person than the OS. Which is probably why he installed Windows again, whatever version. Microsoft are committed to moving everyone on to Windows 10 with their free upgrade programme for 7 and 8 (I don't think even XP had an upgrade path to 7). Those resisting will soon find themselves pushing **** up-hill, until they eventually give in and install 10. |
| Ridcully Aug 16, 2015 11:33 PM EDT |
Cybertao, you either missed or ignored one fact: this man is an extremely well qualified computer engineer and he understands Unix, Windows and Linux. I do not appreciate your attempt in your above post to denigrate him personally, let alone his abilities in computing. Let me put it bluntly: if this man "dumped" Win10, then he had excellent reasons for doing so and they were definitely not "superfluous" as far as he was concerned. I certainly agree that others have upgraded without issues but my friend's son did have very strong issues and reacted accordingly. |
| cybertao Aug 16, 2015 11:57 PM EDT |
It would be interesting to hear what his reasons are then, instead of implying he hates Windows 10 because the upgrade process failed. You're the one presenting the story that way. How would you react to someone who writes off Linux because their first attempt at installing it didn't work? |
| Ridcully Aug 17, 2015 12:34 AM EDT |
Quite honestly, cybertao, I'm totally disinterested in his reasons because I have no intention of ever allowing Win10 on any of my future computers; as a result, I have no intention of pursuing them. I am simply the messenger for what happened and I am not in contact with the person concerned. But ......I don't attack personally, ever. With respect to your hypothetical question, my first move would be exactly yours.....I'd like to know what happened. And I don't think there is any more to be gained by going any further. |
| cybertao Aug 17, 2015 12:52 AM EDT |
If you haven't actually talked to the man or at least heard a more detailed second-hand opinion I don't know why you mentioned it in the first place, or why you started preaching the skills of this qualified engineer and expect people to take his opinion as gospel. If I was to do that I'd be forgoing Linux for Windows 7. And I stand by my assertion that he's still locked in to Microsoft's environment by installing Windows 7, you can't say it doesn't have privacy and security concerns of its own. The only 'attack' is based purely on your presentation of his reason. It would be nice if people talked about the hard merits and demerits of Windows 10 instead of spreading FUD. |
| Ridcully Aug 17, 2015 12:58 AM EDT |
For those who have followed this thread: QED. I adore "putative" WinFans, they are so predictable in their reactions. |
| cybertao Aug 17, 2015 1:47 AM EDT |
Gosh, that almost sounds like a personal attack. Can't be against me though as I don't use Windows. Targeted at your highly qualified engineer who does, perhaps? |
| Ridcully Aug 17, 2015 2:01 AM EDT |
Nope.......just an observation. Now can we quit this please? It's pointless and I think you are simply enjoying an argument. I'm off to Brisbane now for two days. Enjoy - I cannot reply. Cheers. R. |
| jdixon Aug 17, 2015 5:24 AM EDT |
> If you haven't actually talked to the man or at least heard a more detailed second-hand opinion I don't know why you mentioned it in the first place... Because it was an anecdote which dealt with the topic at hand. Not everything has an ulterior motive. |
| cybertao Aug 17, 2015 7:01 AM EDT |
No, it's not. The topic at hand is Windows 10 infringing on privacy with the suggestion of installing Linux instead. The anecdote, as provided, was about someone who had a problem with the upgrade procedure so they installed Windows 7. Then met with over-defensiveness and alterations of the story when I comment on it. The general theme here is to just flame Windows 10, screw the facts. There's plenty of valid criticisms abound without the need to fabricate emotional responses and conjecture. |
| jdixon Aug 17, 2015 7:38 AM EDT |
> The topic at hand is Windows 10 infringing on privacy with the suggestion of installing Linux instead. The topic at hand is Windows 10, pros and cons. Infringing on privacy is one of the details. > Then met with over-defensiveness and alterations of the story when I comment on it. That would be a rather extreme exaggeration of the facts at hand. But others can read the exchange and determine that for themselves. > The general theme here is to just flame Windows 10, screw the facts. The facts support flaming Windows in general and Windows 10 in particular. > There's plenty of valid criticisms abound without the need to fabricate emotional responses and conjecture. We're humans, not machines. Emotional responses and conjecture are what we do. |
| albinard Aug 17, 2015 3:33 PM EDT |
> who hasn't seen a version upgrade for their Linux distro go south? Me too, for another. |
| cybertao Aug 17, 2015 4:55 PM EDT |
Well, for that matter I've never personally seen a Windows 10 upgrade fail and neither have other 10 million other people. Since we are limiting discussions to personal perceptions and feelings. |
| jdixon Aug 17, 2015 9:59 PM EDT |
> ...and neither have other 10 million other people. Hmm. I can't get the link to work. Simply Google Windows 10 upgrade failure. That's a lot of hits for something no one's ever seen. |
| Ridcully Aug 18, 2015 5:01 AM EDT |
I'm back. It's amazing what Laser therapy can do in an eye. Just had a cell layer removed from the back of an artificial lens.....It took five minutes and my sight is again crystal clear. I sit back amazed at modern technology. I also drove home 170km about 3 hours after it was done with my eye doctor's blessing. Now, cybertao......go look at this: http://www.computerworld.com/article/2971620/microsoft-windo... And that's just for starters. As jdixon suggests, Google on Windows 10 upgrade failure and sit back and watch the results flood in..... I did NOT set out to criticise Win10. I simply reported another person's reactions and suggested Redmond would not like such an outcome. That is NOT overdefensiveness - I have nothing to be defensive about, other than your oblique personal attack on the man himself and I do not resile from considering it "unhelpful". I'm a messenger for heaven's sakes....nothing else. |
| cybertao Aug 18, 2015 6:09 AM EDT |
Well duh, google upgrade failure for the distribution of your choice and you will get results. The first hit for 'slackware upgrade failure' is the Slackware system upgrade page where they suggest considering a fresh installation as penguinist outlined earlier. Hearsay about someone having an upgrade issue is a really dumb argument to criticise an OS for. |
| arm Aug 18, 2015 7:49 AM EDT |
Good news about your peepers Ridcully and glad you made it out of Brisvegas OK. I'm dreading having to go there in a fortnight to watch the Broncos play the Storm. The drive down does not worry me, it is the drive home, having to contend with the friday arvo traffic, and the inevitable hangover after throwing quite a few too many schooners down my neck after the game. |
| jdixon Aug 18, 2015 10:37 AM EDT |
> Hearsay about someone having an upgrade issue is a really dumb argument to criticise an OS for. No one claimed no one had ever had a Slackware upgrade failure, merely that they never had. You're the one who said "Well, for that matter I've never personally seen a Windows 10 upgrade fail and neither have other 10 million other people". |
| cybertao Aug 18, 2015 4:33 PM EDT |
Yes, the comment that I haven't seen a Windows 10 upgrade fail is as irrelevant to the context of the discussion as the comments about Slackware upgrades never failing. Such comments don't refute the fact upgrades fail - the reason Ridcully orginally stated as the reason for someone dissing Windows 10.Ridcully wrote:"Win10 totally stuffed his computer and he had to reformat and reinstall to get rid of the muck!!" Now that's a recommendation for Win10 that I think Redmond really could do without. |
| Ridcully Aug 18, 2015 5:30 PM EDT |
Quoting:Hearsay about someone having an upgrade issue is a really dumb argument to criticise an OS for. Cybertao, my personal perception of your comment above is that you are simply creating mischief. At no time have I criticized Win10 - I merely said that Redmond wouldn't like the assessment made by the person who had the upgrade problem. Please do NOT place "words in my mouth that I never uttered"; it is pure dishonesty. Further, much of what appears on the web consists of quotations from what others have said - reviews and summaries are precise examples. I am fully entitled to quote exactly what was sent to me by a solid authority, just as you are entitled to do the same. I also suggest firmly now, that all you are trying to do is provoke dissent for the sheer pleasure of doing so, not that you have anything worthwhile to add to the situation. No doubt you will try to refute my remark above, but I am not the only one who is reading this thread and I will leave others to make up their own minds. I suggest once more that you drop the matter. It is going nowhere. |
| Koriel Aug 18, 2015 5:33 PM EDT |
Currently running Windows 10 on one machine which was previously running Win 7 (hooked up to TV). The Bad: I had to put in a tremendous amount of work into removing all the cr@p. It has also been doing some very odd things with the keyboard, I have it set for UK Keyboard Layout but this sometimes does not get applied at startup, it has also on the odd occasion been doing random key presses. It is not the keyboard as I replaced it with another UK keyboard from one of my linux boxes and it is doing the same their was no problem under Win 7. The default Broadcom 43xx driver for my wifi card Win 10 comes with is also awful the data rates are very slow and it suffers from dropouts even though the signal is excellent, this problem has been noted by others and the solution is to install the Broadcom BCM43xx driver for Win 8.1 just google it there are plenty out there, I did this and my data rates literally doubled and stability returned. My old Creative Labs Live 5.1 sound card was not supported worked fine on Win 7 with the beta 64 bit driver that Creative released, this driver won't even install on Win 10. Solved by using the emu10 driver from the kxproject. The Good Uses less memory than Win 7. It runs Roblox (for my kid, thats my excuse and i'm sticking to it) I intend to give it another couple of weeks to see if the keyboard issues fix themselves as it has already been auto patched twice I think. Although I wasn't there when they happened, my wife mentioned it had decided to patch itself and I told her yep it does that and their is very little you can do to stop it. If keyboard issues don't get fixed and the current Roblox on Wine issues don't get fixed either then it will be back to Win 7, if Roblox on wine does get fixed I will put Linux Mint 17.2 XFCE on the machine instead. Have blocked the Win 10 update on my wifes Win 7 laptop as she said she has now seen too many horror stories that she doesn't want to take any chances (if it aint broke dont fix it) |
| cybertao Aug 18, 2015 5:58 PM EDT |
Ridcully wrote:Cybertao, my personal perception of your comment above is that you are simply creating mischief.While I realised you changed and elaborated details later, the chain of discussion by others stems from your original statement and my response to it. My first response was incredibly tame, merely pointing out the subject still installed a version of Windows instead of migrating to an alternative - the context of the thread subject. I requoted the comment from your original post because that's what you said then and there. Writing off an operating-system because someone had an upgrade issue isn't right. That's what I was expressing from the start. Other people seem to be picking at that without directly addressing it, probably because no one directly disagrees. So who's creating mischief, and why am I supposed to be the one to 'let it go' when my comments at the time were completely valid? |
| Ridcully Aug 18, 2015 6:04 PM EDT |
Cybertao....thankyou for confirming exactly the point I have been making. I am now leaving this thread as I do not intend to waste any more of my time arguing with someone who is merely attempting to point score and, as I said, create mischief. R. |
| cybertao Aug 18, 2015 6:08 PM EDT |
Koriel wrote:It has also been doing some very odd things with the keyboard, I have it set for UK Keyboard Layout but this sometimes does not get applied at startup, it has also on the odd occasion been doing random key presses. It is not the keyboard as I replaced it with another UK keyboard from one of my linux boxes and it is doing the same their was no problem under Win 7.I've read about a range of different keyboard behaviour problems, such as it disappearing completely, unplugging and plugging not resolving the issue, requiring a reboot. What crud did you remove, and how? |
| penguinist Aug 18, 2015 6:14 PM EDT |
cybertao: I've been following this thread and I'm really not getting the point that you are trying to make. Should we simply discount you as just another troll? or do you really have a constructive point to make? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you are wanting to imply that "Windows10 is the Greatest", a message that few experienced Linux users will be ready to accept. So do you you really have a positive statement to make? or are you only here to "create mischief"? With all due respect, cybertao, you are coming across as a Windows-Fanboy, whether that is your intention or not. |
| cybertao Aug 18, 2015 6:17 PM EDT |
Ridcully wrote:Cybertao....thankyou for confirming exactly the point I have been making. I am now leaving this thread as I do not intend to waste any more of my time arguing with someone who is merely attempting to point score and, as I said, create mischief.You could just let it go and discuss the topic as I've been trying to do, instead of thinking this a petty personal point scoring game before taking your ball home in a huff. |
| Koriel Aug 18, 2015 6:40 PM EDT |
I removed pretty much all of the bundled apps except cortana all done using the methods here http://www.howtogeek.com/224798/how-to-uninstall-windows-10s... Sometimes re-booting fixes the keyboard only to come back the next day facilitating another reboot, as i say its got a couple of weeks to fix itself if not back to Win 7 or Mint XFCE, im not putting in any further effort in as I have development work to do and no time to spend on fixing other folks bugs. |
| jdixon Aug 18, 2015 8:49 PM EDT |
> You could just let it go and discuss the topic as I've been trying to do, instead of thinking this a petty personal point scoring game before taking your ball home in a huff. And yet you're the one that started the "petty personal point scoring game" with Ridcully, when he was simply passing on a personal anecdote. |
| cybertao Aug 18, 2015 9:16 PM EDT |
Koriel wrote:...im not putting in any further effort in as I have development work to do and no time to spend on fixing other folks bugs.My thoughts are that Microsoft's current free upgrade programme is effectively beta testing. Enterprise is where they make their money, and enterprise customers are always reluctant to upgrade. Many corporations and institutions are still using XP, and others only just got around to Windows 7. Microsoft need to gain their confidence that Windows 10 is viable in a year or two. |
| the_doctor Aug 19, 2015 12:12 PM EDT |
Quoting:My thoughts are that Microsoft's current free upgrade programme is effectively beta testing. Absolutely! Microsoft delivers Windows 10 PC build 10532 to Insiders Windows 10 Pro Insider Preview / Evaluation copy. Build 10532 For testing purposes only. Install at your own risk. |
| NoDough Aug 19, 2015 5:24 PM EDT |
cybertao wrote:My thoughts are that Microsoft's current free upgrade programme is effectively beta testing. As it has been with pretty much every version of Windows ever released. Second editions may be exceptions (3 -> 3.11, 98 -> 98 Second Edition, 2008 -> 2008 R2, etc.) |
| Koriel Aug 20, 2015 9:50 PM EDT |
My latest Win 10 experiences: The Good: Keyboard layout is now working correctly and no more random key presses, not sure which update fixed it though. The Bad: After one of the recent updates found a whole bunch of bundled apps that I had removed had been re-installed notably OneNote, GetOffice and Groove music. This is not good when I remove apps I have good reason to do so, so funnily enough I actually like them to stay removed, I know I know what a control freak I must be. Removed them again. Windows 7 re-install is getting closer and closer, if the bundled apps re-appear again that is the end of Win 10 for me, except as a VM to test SelekTOR. |
Posting in this forum is limited to members of the group: [ForumMods, SITEADMINS, MEMBERS.]
Becoming a member of LXer is easy and free. Join Us!