The need for this story escapes me.
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| Author | Content |
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| Ridcully Jul 12, 2015 4:36 AM EDT |
First, there are full powered FOSS applications that can do the job of Office and Photoshop so I am amazed that someone will still push this argument. GIMP and LibreOffice are both brilliant. For GIMP, the big problem I suspect, is that it's controls are NOT the same as Photoshop. And that is why I still persist with an ultra-old version of Photoshop on Crossover Office......simply because I know what buttons to push to get what I want. And yes, I'm first in line to admit that there might be some aspects that are not yet fully covered in the FOSS alternatives when compared to the proprietary software, but for most people, they are probably already quite good enough. Second, as a follow-on to the above.......Use Crossover Office. It allows you to run both Office and Photoshop in a sorta kinda Windows "facility".......it might even be thought of as a rather strange form of a virtual machine. And finally Three, which follows on from my second point........USE a virtual machine and run Windows inside Linux. The cost of a copy of Windows is now in the "el-cheapo" class. With Windows installed in a VM, you can run any proprietary software you darn well please. And you'd have to own those two items of Office and Photoshop in order to be able to install them........because you, the reader, are legitimate, ain't ya ?? Okay......it's just my take, but honestly, the need for proprietary software to make Linux hit the bigtime escapes me. We already have plenty of ways to "make it so !". Who wants or needs the wretched items ported to Linux....?? And would it make a difference ? To use my Australian colloquialism: "Naaaah. Don't think so. Oh, and has anyone told Bruce about Android ? We've already got there mate." Just my 2c, and everybody is most welcome to tell me I am so darn wrong.....because I'd be very, very interested to see why. Thanks, in anticipation. PS.........Yes, I do KNOW that there is a piece of software that makes GIMP behave like Photoshop as regards the commands and menus.....I just didn't mention it in the first draft. |
| nmset Jul 12, 2015 5:20 AM EDT |
I rather think people are waiting for paid apps to come to Linux, in addition of being proprietary. You value what you pay for, the act of giving away your money creates the value of what you own thereafter, and you're proud of owning something valuable. Why do you think Apple is worth more than some oil companies at the stock market ? Next, remember OSS licences always have this tag : "Use at your own risks" . Companies won't take risks, non-techies won't take risks. Moreover, they want to be able to shout at someone or some company if something goes wrong, and sue them if necessary. The Linux desktop is not for tomorrow. |
| Ridcully Jul 12, 2015 5:52 AM EDT |
Y'know, nmset, I am very, VERY proud of the freedom of Linux........and it's all there without the paid, proprietary apps. I'd not thought of it this way before, but your post crystallised that aspect. As regards the content of your second paragraph, Linux is already there. Please note that the NY Stock Exchange runs on Linux.......Red Hat Linux I believe and then of course, there is SLED from SUSE which is already in lots and lots of places in big business. We are already there as far as I am concerned. Companies CAN shout at someone in the Linux world. |
| penguinist Jul 12, 2015 10:20 AM EDT |
I often help family and friends to make the transition over to Linux and it never fails that there will come a question like "how can I run Photoshop on Linux" or "I've not considered Linux because I really need Microsoft Excel". I've come up with a standard speech that I give a new Linux user after we've installed a dual boot on their system, and it goes something like this: "Get ready to make a mindset change. Instead of asking "how can I run Photoshop in Linux", reframe your question like "how can I edit my photos in Linux". I can't think of anything that Linux cannot do well given the 75,000 programs that are available in its free program repositories. Let's get back to your Photoshop question. If you go to your favorite search engine and search on "Linux" and "Photoshop" you will soon see that the Linux equivalent for Photoshop is called Gimp. Now that we know that, let me show you how we can install Gimp on your system. Now we have a good way to edit your photos. We can do the same by searching for the terms "Linux" and "Excel". Now we can see that the LibreOffice suite is the Linux equivalent for Microsoft Office. Here let's install it and we'll use it to open one of your spreadsheets so you can see how it works..." So, after a little handholding like this, I've seen new users become enthusiastic about the possibilities as they start exploring, on their own, the other 74,998 programs in their new repository. |
| seatex Jul 12, 2015 3:51 PM EDT |
I think it's ironic that most Windows users won't even consider Linux just because it is free. They assume you only get what you pay for. Yet, they have hundreds of "free" versions of commercial software on their PCs, and they think it's good because they could upgrade to a paid version (but they never do). Instead they pay for it with their loss of security, as many of the "free" versions are infecting their machines with adware and malware and sending their private data to the software company (which is often sold to third parties). |
| Ridcully Jul 12, 2015 5:10 PM EDT |
Not bad at all penguinist....I don't get the chances very often of installing Linux for someone, but your little "spiel" is a good way to approach the software "problem"....Which, as you say is a mindset one, not a software one. Thanks. |
| BernardSwiss Jul 12, 2015 7:11 PM EDT |
@Ridcully,
Re: The need for this story escapes me. Beginning of the article: Quoting:"You often hear that Linux will only become mainstream when more proprietary software is ported to Linux. Like the two characters waiting for Godot, thousands of people are apparently waiting for the day Microsoft Office or Photoshop releases a Linux version and demolishes its free-licensed rivals. Against all reason, the expectation persists." End of the article: Quoting:"Instead of being a meaningful comment, the need for proprietary software has become an excuse for not changing, or even investigating an alternative. It is a rationalization, not a reasoned argument, and is typically defended by any means available." I have a somewhat "cash-strapped" friend, whose ageing Windows Vista desktop system is about to bite the dust. The mechanical problem could be easily and fairly cheaply fixed (replace the failing 1/2 GB IDE drive, and possibly the power supply). Even if he'd backed up Vista, Vista EOL is only a little over a year and a half away -- so add the price of a new Windows license. That's starting to look "too expensive" to be worth fixing... Well now... Linux is starting to look a little more attractive. But wait -- iTunes doesn't come in a native Linux version! Never mind that he rarely if ever buys anything via iTunes, Linux is now off the table, again... |
| CFWhitman Jul 13, 2015 9:10 AM EDT |
There are two things that keep some people who use Photoshop more seriously from finding Gimp adequate. Those two things are higher color depth (at least 16 bit) and the number of plug-ins (or certain specific plug-ins). I've never gotten hooked on Photoshop plug-ins, but I would like for high color depth to finally come to Gimp. It's seemed close for a while, but it still hasn't happened yet. At the moment I do most of my color processing operations in Darktable (or sometimes Raw Therapee or Lightzone). 8 bit color depth is generally fine for the finished picture, but during color operations it can lead to banding instead of smooth transitions. I installed Linux on someone's computer recently to help her avoid issues with malware. She also wanted iTunes for the purpose of purchasing music, but she was willing to try out Google Play Music instead. She seems to be happy enough with that so far, but the jury is still out on whether she will continue to use Linux or transition back to Windows 7. |
| skelband Jul 13, 2015 1:42 PM EDT |
> Next, remember OSS licences always have this tag : "Use at your own risks" . Companies won't take risks, non-techies won't take risks. Moreover, they want to be able to shout at someone or some company if something goes wrong, and sue them if necessary. The Linux desktop is not for tomorrow. I don't remember the last time I saw the EULA of a piece of proprietary software that didn't say this also. You can buy support for important software and it is generally a cost that runs year in, year out, but the initial cost of the software rarely makes a difference to this. |
| gus3 Jul 13, 2015 2:18 PM EDT |
Software EULA's can be summed up in one simple statement: "The Company gets all the monetary benefits, and assumes none of the risk." The words beyond that are superfluous. |
| CFWhitman Jul 13, 2015 4:23 PM EDT |
I have pointed this out several times in the past when someone made the 'someone to sue' argument. Proprietary licenses never cover more than the purchase price of the software as far as liability goes. That's very clearly laid out in the licenses. Support is always limited unless you pay for extra, and nothing is guaranteed. |
| BernardSwiss Jul 13, 2015 7:25 PM EDT |
Time for the obligatory reference to the classic HavenTree EasyFlow License Agreement |
| JaseP Jul 14, 2015 1:17 AM EDT |
Quoting: Software EULA's can be summed up in one simple statement: "The Company gets all the monetary benefits, and assumes none of the risk." The words beyond that are superfluous. There's one more: "The user agree's to not make any attempt to reverse engineer any portion of the software." |
| nmset Jul 14, 2015 4:47 AM EDT |
I doubt that judges would just abide by the EULA if any software gets destructive, whatever be the unexpected damages. For example, if it can be shown that the entertainment software in airplanes caused a crash, I doubt the company would just skip any judiciary consequences by waving the EULA or specific contract with the air carrier. A database vendor will not get away so easily if his software messes up data. An entity is then accountable by the company suffering a loss. That won't be possible with OSS. Now I don't use anything else but OSS. I'm just saying that companies prefer paid apps because there's some physical entity behind, and I add that the EULA is not an efficient vaccine. |
| CFWhitman Jul 14, 2015 9:39 AM EDT |
Well, the example of entertainment software in airplanes causing a crash would be rather an odd situation (and not very likely as I would expect the two systems to be isolated and tested properly). In any case a database vendor cannot be held liable if the database messes up. You are supposed to have backups, and improper configuration or use could just as well be the problem as the software itself. If you can find a case where a company successfully sued their software vendor over something like this I would be interested to see it. |
| Steven_Rosenber Jul 14, 2015 4:23 PM EDT |
GIMP development should be a lot more rapid that it is. It would be great if Red Hat threw some people at it. I don't care about CMYK, but plenty of people do, and GIMP should have it. A feature that I've needed for years has been fully editable IPTC metadata in JPGs. GIMP is getting closer. It doesn't obliterate existing data like it used to. But you can't edit it yet. For my use case, GIMP falls flat. Fortunately there are other free-software applications that do handle this data, including Gthumb (which I use) and digiKam (which I don't). Getting IPTC support into GIMP and Krita would be a really, really good thing for me. Do I need Photoshop? Hell no. I've never used it much and don't want to start. As one of the writers above said, there are always VMs and things like Wine for those cases where you absolutely, positively need a Windows app. Luckily writing (I prefer text editors) and development (text editors!!) are pretty much made for Linux (and any BSD you can get to play nicely), so I'm good. My employer deploys some horrible apps over Citrix, including Adobe InCopy, so I am running a piece of Adobe CS on Linux. I wouldn't wish InCopy on anybody. |
| Ridcully Jul 15, 2015 5:39 AM EDT |
May I sincerely congratulate all those who have contributed to this particular thread. I started it off as a more or less general "gripe" (bad tempered no doubt) over my perception that Linux already had software that could pretty much stand toe to toe with proprietary software........BUT.....it has opened doors and ideas that I had never thought of. It's one of the reasons I am so very, very proud to be associated with this site of LXer.....I learn things too, and that's the best bit of all. Thanks again everybody. |
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