Work on something else?
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| AwesomeTux Oct 07, 2014 2:15 AM EDT |
From the article wrote:"under Torvalds' sometimes rude direction, Linux has become perhaps the most important operating system in the world today" Haha! Seriously though, Linus is the leader of one component of the operating system, those who find his behavior rude can simply work on something else, work on some other part of the operating system. I know people like to romanticize the kernel and elevate it to a level of importance far beyond how important it actually is, but there are many, many, more projects people can work on and contribute to than the kernel. Maybe contribute to the filesystem libraries, grub, bash or glibc if you like lower level, or maybe GNOME/GTK/KDE/QT if you like graphical work, or maybe even do your kernel work as an independent kernel module and not interact with Torvalds. There are thousands of projects that aren't under Linus' control, some have nice leaders, some don't, most are just as important and need contributors just as much if not more than Linux. |
| Bob_Robertson Oct 07, 2014 9:38 AM EDT |
If I had the skills, the place I would really focus is the libraries. Those things called by everything else. Make a contribution there, and everyone benefits. |
| tuxchick Oct 07, 2014 10:22 AM EDT |
Poettering's right. They can cling to the meritocracy delusion, but the real requirement to be accepted in kernel development is to have rhino hide, or be a business with lots of money to fling into the pot. |
| Koriel Oct 07, 2014 11:38 AM EDT |
I dont think anyone working on the kernel are delusional, i'm damn sure they know what what they are letting themselves in for I mean its not as if Linus hides his nature, I for one support his no-nonsense behaviour not surprising really as I come from an industry (OIl) where this sort of no-nonsense approach is appreciated and if you can't take some offensive language then don't ever think about taking a job in the Scottish Oil Industry. This is called the reality of the real world and if Poettering doesn't like it he can either create a large enough movement of like minded kernel development folk and try to change it (good luck with that BTW) as his own personality failings are also well known or go do something else. So basically if you can't take the way its run go do something else like fix Pulseaudio so that it actually might get close to working on a machine with only 2 cores and stop whining. |
| gus3 Oct 07, 2014 12:10 PM EDT |
To generalize tc's comment: The bar is set unreasonably high, so that only an unreasonable person/party can jump over it. Because, as Shaw pointed out, true progress depends on unreasonable people. |
| Scott_Ruecker Oct 07, 2014 12:12 PM EDT |
AwesomeTux: I agree. If you do not like working on the kernel then find another part you do and contribute there. And the kernel is not the most important part of the OS..it is very important, but not the most important. What this all says is nothing more than the simple truth that "If everyone liked everyone, then no one would have any friends.." because you don't have to like Linus but if you want to work on the kernel you get to deal with him. Its as simple as that. |
| Bob_Robertson Oct 07, 2014 1:50 PM EDT |
> the kernel is not the most important part of the OS..it is very important, but not the most important Well said. |
| gus3 Oct 07, 2014 2:06 PM EDT |
I'd add that the kernel is the most critical to get right, especially in a monolithic kernel like Linux..A programming error in user-space won't bring the system to a halt, barring something that prevent init from launching. In the kernel, a panic is always a risk. |
| 750 Oct 07, 2014 3:03 PM EDT |
Gus3, there is also the risk of init going belly up... |
| tuxchick Oct 08, 2014 12:11 AM EDT |
Yawn. Same old defenses of asshattery. Setting a high bar for technical excellence is not achieved with personal attacks and abuse. Two different things, and the latter is just plain old bullying. |
| kikinovak Oct 08, 2014 3:39 AM EDT |
@tuxchick. One of our great philosophers (Lessing) once said something that can be translated like this: "If you don't lose your head in some situations, then you don't have a head in the first place." I've read most of Lennart Poettering's publications, I've watched his conferences and interviews online. As far as I can tell, he talks much and rarely listens. At the same time, he manages to piss off whole communities in the turn of a single sentence. Just search the FreeBSD forums for "poettering" to get a rough idea of the anger building up after he dismissed FreeBSD as "irrelevant" (sic). Other communities (Slackware and Gentoo) have equally had their share of snide remarks, and Linus himself has publicly stated that the systemd developers don't care much about bug reports. Curiously enough, I don't care so much about the technical aspects of systemd, and I'm certainly not a lamer to RTFM and learn new things. Open Source development is teamwork, and Lennart Poettering is manifestly not a good team player. Which explains all the anger and frustration around his project. |
| gus3 Oct 08, 2014 1:31 PM EDT |
Yes, 750, I did say that. |
| tuxchick Oct 08, 2014 2:36 PM EDT |
kikinovak, "everyone does it" is a lame excuse. I laugh every time I see one of those "Come learn how to be a kernel contributor! We're really not that scary!" announcements. Maintaining a hostile atmosphere is great for perpetuating the status quo. Linux is lacking in key areas because of the cozy little clubhouse mentality, such as accessibility and a good strong open mobile stack. A lack of diversity = stagnation. |
| BernardSwiss Oct 08, 2014 6:23 PM EDT |
Tuxchick, I don't think kikinovak was saying "everybody does it". I think kikinovak was saying "actions speak louder than words" -- and that by that measure, Poettering is much worse than Torvalds. |
| notbob Oct 08, 2014 7:32 PM EDT |
This is becoming tedious. You want systemd? Fine by me. Jes somebody, somewhere, leave me a choice. Please. Thank you. |
| linux4567 Oct 08, 2014 7:44 PM EDT |
@notbob: systemd devs are working hard at making systemd an essential dependency so that there is no way you can avoid it without losing other major components of your system. Pulseaudio is the same, bluetooth audio depends on it (and now Skype too). And this attitude is exactly one of the main reasons why systemd pisses me off, this is completely against the Linux way of playing nice with other components and leaving the choice to the user. |
| kikinovak Oct 09, 2014 2:19 AM EDT |
Abstract of my previous post: 1. LP talks much but rarely listens. 2. LP doesn't care if his snide remarks piss off whole communities of users and/or developers. 3. At last LP's given a well-deserved lesson in human interaction. |
| 750 Oct 10, 2014 9:09 AM EDT |
And now he posted a G+ entry with the title systemd-office (apparently he submitted a liberoffice patch that translated some german code comments into english). If you don't want to get mauled, why do you keep poking the bear?! |
| Bob_Robertson Oct 10, 2014 10:50 AM EDT |
> If you don't want to get mauled, why do you keep poking the bear?! Some children never learn the difference between positive and negative "attention". |
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