Why is a chroot the preferred method?
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Jeff91 Mar 03, 2014 12:33 PM EDT |
You mention in the article that a chroot setup is the preferred method - why is this? Installing Linux to the Chromebook hardware works really well - as well as it would on any other computer. What is the need to keep ChromeOS installed when you can simply install Google's Chrome browser inside of whatever Linux distro you install and have it do everything ChromeOS does? ~Jeff |
| gary_newell Mar 03, 2014 4:39 PM EDT |
The Chromebook has been designed and manufactured to work perfectly with chromeos and for a web experience you will be hard pushed to find something that functions better than chromeos. By using a chroot you are giving yourself a sandbox to run those extra pieces of software you can't live without. There is of course no reason why you can't just replace chromeos with another operating system but as with people who replace the operating system on a Mac, why buy a Mac in the first place? The guide is written for adding functionality without replacing the good bits that are already there. In addition to this the HP chromebook requires a number of hacks to get the touchpad working including a very up to date kernel which then has to be patched. There are also audio issues that need to be resolved. Chromeos doesn't obviously have these issues and the chroot method resolves the touchpad and audio issues.(in a way). |
| Jeff91 Mar 03, 2014 6:06 PM EDT |
Quoting:people who replace the operating system on a Mac, why buy a Mac in the first place Why buy a Chromebook just to take Chrome OS off of it? Why would I want a low cost laptop with an SSD and awesome battery life? Your logic here is just massively flawed. Buying Apple hardware to not run OSX often doesn't make sense because Apple hardware is SUPER expensive. People buying Chromebooks and replacing ChromeOS with Linux is no different than people buying Windows laptops and replacing Windows. Quoting: the HP chromebook requires a number of hacks to get the touchpad working This isn't true in the slightest. In addition to Chrubuntu providing a scripted experience for this there are efforts like the disc I created that work with all the Chromebook hardware by default. You have a great tutorial here - it just bothers me that you are pushing it as the "best" method when you aren't terribly informed on the alternatives. |
| gary_newell Mar 04, 2014 5:15 AM EDT |
I did look at the Chrubuntu option and I installed Ubuntu in this way and I jumped through some hoops to get it working and yes it did work but was it a better experience than the ChromeOS that I had in the first place. No. I could dual boot but it just feels like the wrong tool for the wrong job in this instance. I also tried using some of the distros that are built to run from USB/SD cards such as SLAX, Puppy and Knoppix. SLAX ran like a dream but I couldn't get the touchpad working. Fine with a USB mouse. They all booted ok but the touchpad didn't work for any of them. Obviously I haven't got your experience and troubleshooting such issues. I also had sound issues. I think you are right "best" is subjective. It all depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you want to use the Chromebook as a Chromebook with the ability to run extra software then I think the way I have described it pretty decent. If you really want to run a custom OS whether that is Bodhi or Point then you may be better off partitioning in the normal way. |
| nmset Mar 04, 2014 7:01 AM EDT |
My 2c. I think running in chroot is the best option. ChromeOS manages all the hardware through the kernel, and in the chroot, you just use all your usual apps. I do this (chroot) on an Android tablet and an Android phone and it works great, I can even print any document from these devices, and benefit indirectly from the camera which would have been nearly impossible otherwise than in chroot. The big problem with installing Linux directly is hardware management indeed. |
| jdixon Mar 04, 2014 10:19 AM EDT |
> ChromeOS manages all the hardware through the kernel, So why can't you just use their kernel in your distro of choice? |
| Jeff91 Mar 04, 2014 11:05 AM EDT |
Saying Chroot is the preferred method for running Linux on these devices because they come with ChromeOS by default is like saying you should only run Linux inside of a VM on a computer that comes with Windows by default. And we all know this isn't true. ~Jeff |
| nmset Mar 04, 2014 12:00 PM EDT |
>you should only run Linux inside of a VM on a computer On the computer, the distro's kernel will take care of every device. That would much more difficult to do on a ChromeBook or tablet, as you won't always have the modules for the built-in devices. The manufacturers of the devices do not always release sources, the PowerVR graphics is a good example. Running your apps (we're are not talking about Linux but apps) in chroot against a running Linux kernel (it's already there) is more than appealing to me. With a few exceptions, whatever application you use on your PC can be installed in the chroot. |
| Jeff91 Mar 04, 2014 12:06 PM EDT |
You are ignorant of the topic which you are talking about. x86 Chromebooks are just normal laptops with a different bios setup. You can even boot a traditional Linux OS using the kernel that comes with ChromeOS. This is how my Samsung Chromebook installer script manages to get a working Linux OS on the ARM hardware. For x86 hardware it is even more simple that this - there are drivers in the mainline kernel for most all of the Intel Haswell based Chromebooks hardware and the pieces that aren't in the mainline yet have patches that allow them to become functional. |
| tuxchick Mar 04, 2014 1:57 PM EDT |
Open hardware is every bit as important as open software. For all of the self-congratulations on 'Android is Linux, so we're #1!' the move to lock us in to vendors and lock us out of doing what we want with our own devices in is just as strong as ever. |
| Jeff91 Mar 04, 2014 2:16 PM EDT |
Quoting:the move to lock us in to vendors and lock us out of doing what we want with our own devices in is just as strong as ever. +1 The only difference is more people prefer this jail. |
| CFWhitman Mar 04, 2014 2:24 PM EDT |
I agree with tuxchick about this. In fact, I suspect that 'the move to lock us in to vendors and lock us out of doing what we want with our own devices' may be even stronger than ever. It's at the very least been a long time since any desktop computer tried to lock us into a vendor to the extent that iOS does, and Android vendors aren't that much better. I've run Cyanogenmod on my Android tablets, which helps a lot, but I still use a lot of Google services with them. I just don't feel so locked in to just those services. SecureBoot is proving to be more of a lock-in feature than a security feature, as I expected. Sure you can get around it, but it's another obstacle in your way. The new convertible laptop/tablet computers also tend to be very Linux unfriendly. Chromebooks are there to immerse you in Google services, but when it comes to installing Linux on a new lightweight machine with good battery life, they end up being the biggest bright spot. I have noticed, however, that there are a lot more regular people that I know who are actually using Linux to revitalize old hardware. Linux tends to work great on hardware from a year or two old up to about eight years old, and surprisingly well for a lot of hardware even older than that. |
| nmset Mar 04, 2014 4:09 PM EDT |
> x86 Chromebooks are just normal laptops Not all. While it's true I didn't have x86 Chromebooks in mind, ARM based Chromebooks are not imaginary http://www.omgchrome.com/google-announce-249-arm-chromebook/ To get back to the topic, the main advantage of a chroot is to focus on usual applications we know as an add-on, while at the same time having those of the host. Afterwards, it's every one's choice. |
| flufferbeer Mar 04, 2014 4:19 PM EDT |
+2 tuxchick and Jeff91 By installing a native linux distro on a Chromebook WITHOUT having to stoop down to using a chroot jail, maybe we can more easily AVOID those negatives with ChromeOS's Google services and anti-privacy shenanigans in the first place! Better to make those gotta-have ChromeOS features SECONDARY(!) to a native Linux install -- by relegating Google'sOS into a vm or somethin similar. My 2c |
| flufferbeer Mar 05, 2014 12:39 PM EDT |
... and besides, I think that competition'll make the product much better. Just look at all those installable Linux distros now avialble for the raspberry Pi. NOTHING is locking any particular rPi-supporting distro into a STRANGLEHOLD vs another great rPi-compatible one! +2 cents |
| jdixon Mar 05, 2014 5:40 PM EDT |
If I had the spare money lying around, I'd be tempted to buy one just to try integrating the Google provided Kernel with a Slackware installation. But since my Dell Mini-9 is still running fine, and fills most of the same needs, I can't justify spending the money (especially since we just had to replace our 50+ year old refrigerator). |
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