Slackware and the systemd debate
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| kikinovak Dec 31, 2013 8:10 AM EDT |
Here's Slackware's systemd debate. One single line on LinuxQuestions.org: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/slackwa... :o) |
| tuxchick Dec 31, 2013 1:03 PM EDT |
Heh, that's pretty funny. The advantage of systemd is managing services after boot. I don't get this obsession with boot times; to me they're irrelevant because even when you get to a login prompt in record time, you still have to wait for your graphical environment to load (assuming you are using one), which for KDE4 users means another minute or two of thumb-twiddling. Which is still many minutes faster than winderz, which needs extra time to launch all the required adware, crapware, and malware. systemd should be able to handle hotplugging devices and launching services on demand, and replace the motley crews of subsystems that have come and gone like HAL and autofs. Everyone uses D-Bus now, which is a natural fit with systemd. So when you look past booting your system it makes sense. People like to make fun of Poettering, but have you looked at Pulseaudio lately? The UI is a bit clunky, but it's very good for managing multiple sound cards and routing audio streams, which has always been a horrid task in Linux and easy in winduhs and Mac. An article on systemd by a wise person from a couple years ago: http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/524577-here-we-go-again... |
| notbob Jan 01, 2014 10:26 AM EDT |
@tuxchick. Obviously, something I need to study in more detail and I thank you for the link to yer introductory article. OTOH, I'm troubled by the issue of security. It was all Window's do-it-for-you and "on-demand" openness --some would say lack of security-- that pushed me to linux. I don't want my system "auto-mounting" storage devices or "auto-demand" connectivity. That any dark dork comes along and plugs in his/her nefarious flash drive fulla evil into my port and hoses my system is not gonna happen. I not only want, but demand!, it be something I consciously perform. To allow any/all services to access my system is to allow control by others, the exact opposite of what I changed to linux for. I understand the desire to make these easier changes. As you say, I have work to do. My fear is, that work will become reformatting my system after it's been compromised. BTDT and have no desire to play that same game all over again. |
| kikinovak Jan 01, 2014 6:50 PM EDT |
@tuxchick: I know there are some advantages to systemd. But then: http://lwn.net/Articles/578209/ |
| tuxchick Jan 01, 2014 7:28 PM EDT |
LOL, kikinovak that sounds like 90% of all Linux debates "The other guys are poopyheads" I don't have any preference between systemd or upstart. I think the old sysvinit is inadequate and overdue for replacement, so if systemd becomes dominant, or upstart, or they co-exist I don't much care. Just bring 'em on. |
| Bob_Robertson Jan 02, 2014 9:36 AM EDT |
TC, > the old sysvinit is inadequate Is there a one or two sentence explanation for that? I've seen "slow", I've seen "cumbersome", I've also seen "old" in the sense that anything old must therefore be obsolete. But inadequate? |
| kikinovak Jan 02, 2014 1:20 PM EDT |
@tuxchick: My approach to computing for the last two years or so could be summarized as Linux From Slack (or rather Beyond Linux From Slack). I'm using it on both servers and desktops. Sometimes folks explain what's wrong with BSD-Init, but I bluntly admit I don't get the point. What's important to me is that it works, transparently and reliably so. I know there's a heated debate around systemd, but honestly, I don't care, because it's an answer to a nonexistent problem in the first place (according to Slackware maintainers Patrick Volkerding and Eric Hameleers themselves). And it doesn't really help that Lennart Poettering *is* a poopyhead, to use your term. His eloquent presentations on Youtube somehow remind me of Zorro. He's riding on his white horse to bring the light, and no one's seen the truth before him. |
| tuxchick Jan 02, 2014 2:33 PM EDT |
I'm not going to repeat my linked article, comments, or dig up more references. Upstart and systemd are already the default in mainline distros and have been for years, and there is tons of factual material to read (as opposed to pointless geek arguments that are about personalities instead of technical information) so there really isn't any mystery what they're about or if they work. Even the Slackware thread has some good substantial comments in it. |
| Steven_Rosenber Jan 02, 2014 2:55 PM EDT |
So I'm testing Debian right now -- Debian Testing, to be exact. It boots super fast -- way faster then my systemd-running Fedora 20. I know from using Fedora over the past three releases that managing services while the machine is running is done through systemd, but as far as an increase in boot speed goes, I don't see it. In a related manner, this systemd bug -- https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1023820 -- is chapping my hide and making shutdown take A FULL TWO MINUTES LONGER than it otherwise would. |
| Bob_Robertson Jan 02, 2014 3:51 PM EDT |
Steven, not having a Debian Testing machine at the moment, which one of these is it running? |
| Bob_Robertson Jan 02, 2014 3:53 PM EDT |
TC, ok, then I assume the answer is esoteric, takes lots of knowledge to understand that I don't have, and that there are articles linked (somewhere) that explains it. No worries, I understand. You see what I don't. Got it. |
| kikinovak Jan 02, 2014 4:19 PM EDT |
I've read your article, tuxchick. And even if Britney Spears and Justin Bieber are already the default in mainline radio stations, I'd rather listen to Wayne Shorter and Charles Mingus. (Remember VHS vs. Video 2000 vs. Betamax?) |
| Steven_Rosenber Jan 02, 2014 7:44 PM EDT |
Quoting:Steven, not having a Debian Testing machine at the moment, which one of these is it running? Neither. It's good ol' Sys V. |
| Bob_Robertson Jan 03, 2014 9:41 AM EDT |
> Neither. It's good ol' Sys V. Ah. Fascinating. Here I was told it was "inadequate". |
Posting in this forum is limited to members of the group: [ForumMods, SITEADMINS, MEMBERS.]
Becoming a member of LXer is easy and free. Join Us!