Thank you, LXer community
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Bob_Robertson Apr 29, 2013 9:37 AM EDT |
I'm glad that the LXer community treats people as individuals, rather than having any gender distinctions. This would be a much less interesting and beneficial place without the many excellent contributors who just happen to be women. |
| Jeff91 Apr 29, 2013 12:41 PM EDT |
The top comment on this article hit the nail on the head: "I have always said, that creating "special" categories for women where they do not need them (almost everything but sports) is a way to increase discrimination. In all intellectual fields, they need to be in the same field with the same rules, if they accept handicap, then they have self-discriminate themselves." ~Jeff |
| caitlyn Apr 30, 2013 12:57 AM EDT |
Here's a dose of reality for both of you: there are barriers put up to keep female developers out in our industry. There are men who feel threatened. There are those who have misogynistic attitudes right out of the 19th century. There are some men who intimidate women in the field without even knowing they are doing it. The argument Mr. Nardi makes would be fine if the playing field was nearly level. It's isn't even vaguely close to that. This comes off as someone with privileges that go along with being white and male in our society crying foul when someone simply tries to encourage women to overcome the barriers. Sorry, no sale. That goes for the two gentlemen who commented before me as well. The fact is we don't all have the same rules. Almost all the gatekeepers are men and many see having a good 'ol boys club as in their interests. I think what the Ada Intiative and github are doing is a positive step in trying to make it a bit easier for women to overcome the obstacles we face in this field. |
| djohnston Apr 30, 2013 1:53 AM EDT |
Quoting:This comes off as someone with privileges that go along with being white and male in our society crying foul when someone simply tries to encourage women to overcome the barriers. Sorry, no sale. That goes for the two gentlemen who commented before me as well. Is vitriol really necessary for voicing an opinion? |
| jacog Apr 30, 2013 4:49 AM EDT |
I'm with caitlyn on this one. People who speak from privilege very often have no idea what it's like on the other side. I half agree about not creating segregated spaces, but right now we're in a spot where there needs to be places of encouragement to counter places with needless hostility towards women. djohnston - I see no vitriol, just an opinion. |
| jdixon Apr 30, 2013 6:10 AM EDT |
My position is simple: They're github's servers, and if they want to offer free space on them, that's their prerogative. What I think about the matter doesn't even enter into it. |
| Jeff91 Apr 30, 2013 9:03 AM EDT |
Just have to disagree. Was I a bit nervous the first time I submitted code to an open source project for the first time? Sure. Have I been told my code is trash and that I need to improve it? More times than I can count. And you know what? These have nothing to do with my gender and everything to do with being human. Everyone gets nervous, everyone starts off writing poor code before they write things are good (or great even). Beyond that - this is the internet. If you are really that terrified use a pseudoname/online handle - this has been done for almost as long as the internet has existed. Giving people special treatment because of their gender is just as bad as denying them something because of their gender. How would you feel in some computer store was giving out free items, but only to men? You better believe they'd catch no end of flak for doing such a thing. ~Jeff |
| jdixon Apr 30, 2013 9:18 AM EDT |
> You better believe they'd catch no end of flak for doing such a thing. Yes, they would. But you know what? The same rule applies: Their stuff, their prerogative. |
| Bob_Robertson Apr 30, 2013 1:01 PM EDT |
> How would you feel in some computer store was giving out free items, but only to men? You better believe they'd catch no end of flak for doing such a thing. Yeah! Lady's Night at the bar is so unfair! |
| Fettoosh Apr 30, 2013 5:05 PM EDT |
Personal liberty is more important and much valuable than discrimination. People fight and die for liberty, discrimination is much easier to fight since all that is needed is to boycott. |
| caitlyn Apr 30, 2013 9:51 PM EDT |
@djohnston: You have never seen vitriol for me. Trust me, that was mild. If anything, I could have expressed my opinion more strongly. @Jeff91: Right now the number women in FOSS is about 1% of the total. Compare that to IT as a whole, which is bad enough. No, it's not about giving special treatment. It's about strengthening women developers so that they can defeat all the barriers that face them if they choose to enter the FOSS world. Also, with all due respect, your experience and difficulties as a man and what women face in IT in general and in FOSS circles in particular are about as similar as grapes and bricks. Well, yes, they're both made of matter. That's where the similarity ends. |
| tuxchick Apr 30, 2013 9:54 PM EDT |
I love when men natter on about women's experiences. Free hint: when you have no idea what you're talking about, don't speak. |
| jacog May 01, 2013 12:56 PM EDT |
Tuxchick - The term is "mansplaining", as in "You don't know what you are feeling. Here, let me mansplain it to you." |
| caitlyn May 01, 2013 4:15 PM EDT |
I like that definition, jacog. On a different website I just had a guy put words into my mouth and claim I said something I never said at all. He insisted that he knew what I implied and what I meant even though what he knew had no relation to what I said. When I called him on that I was accused of resorting to "emotions" and that made me a loser in the argument. The funny thing is it wasn't an argument at all. He tried to turn it into one. I didn't get the winner or loser thing at all in that case. Finally, he tried to order me to shut up. I think some of you know how well that works with me. His posts in that whole exchange typify how some men still look down on women and treat us like we simply don't have brains like men do. Sadly, I see the same crap in IT and FOSS forums all too regularly, especially when the topics of discrimination against women or gender equality pop up. Us uppity little women should shut up and keep to our place, which certainly isn't in the good 'ol boys club of FOSS. What the Ada Initiative is doing here is giving women a safe place to experiment with coding without having derision heaped on them during the learning process. That, IMHO, is a very good thing. |
| gus3 May 01, 2013 4:47 PM EDT |
Okay, caitlyn, you opened a door for me to ask the burning question: Would you support a similar Charles Initiative for men? (as in, Charles Babbage) |
| notbob May 01, 2013 4:57 PM EDT |
caitlyn wrote:I just had a guy put words into my mouth and claim I said something I never said at all. gackkk!! ...(choke! ...splutter! ....cough!! ) Ahem. (guffaw!). That's precious. That's a keeper. ;) |
| caitlyn May 01, 2013 5:11 PM EDT |
@gus3: Support? No. Object? No. Anyone can offer free services to anyone they want. The point you seem to be missing here is there is nothing even remotely representing a level playing field for men and women in FOSS. |
| gus3 May 01, 2013 5:52 PM EDT |
"Object? No" was the answer I was hoping for. I could have worded the question better, but I wanted to get it asked while the opportunity was fresh. I'm not claiming there is a level playing field. The closest thing to it I've seen was in Silicon Valley's strongly meritocratic culture, but even there, there were pockets of sexism to be outed. Fortunately, enough people there are willing to do so. However, having had an Esteemed Institution of Higher Ejukayshun try to make me feel ashamed of being a "privileged white guy" (never mind I grew up just below the poverty line) I'm keen on "special treatment for me, but not for thee" attitudes. Your answer to my question shows me you haven't fallen for that kind of thinking, which I'm glad to know. So now, I'll stop asking questions from left field and go back to lurking. And, before anyone asks, nobody's scaring me away. I'm just not good at coalescing my thoughts quickly and expressing them well on topics like this. |
| mbaehrlxer May 01, 2013 9:40 PM EDT |
i don't know how anyone else feels, but if i am afraid of posting my own code then i can look for support in a large community of peers where i am sure to find others with a similar experience who are willing to look at my code without prejudice. i can't imagine that being anywhere close to a woman who will likely have a much harder time to find such peers. equality between men and women exists before the law, but until it is ingrained into our worlds society as a core value, any initiative that helps bring more women into FOSS is worthy of support and should be judged only by those who can benefit from it, and not those who didn't need it or who have other resources to help them. greetings, eMBee |
| Scott_Ruecker May 02, 2013 2:22 AM EDT |
Quoting:I'm glad that the LXer community treats people as individuals, rather than having any gender distinctions. I could not agree more Bob. Everyone here knows how I feel when it comes to sexism against Women, and as E-i-C I will proudly state LXer has no tolerance for it in any manner or fashion. Scott |
Posting in this forum is limited to members of the group: [ForumMods, SITEADMINS, MEMBERS.]
Becoming a member of LXer is easy and free. Join Us!