Too dramatic
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| r_a_trip Apr 16, 2013 10:47 AM EDT |
Smaller (derivative) distro's always have been beholden to what larger upstream cooks up. You can only ship what you yourself can maintain or have maintained by bigger fish. I've not seen a Debian derivative with the RPM package manager (there could be one of course, but I've never stubled upon it). You base on Debian, you get dpkg. You base on Arch or Fedora, you will get systemd. Unless you somehow manage to decouple the low level bits from systemd and maintain them with your own init system. Sink or swim. Fuduntu comes to an end, because its founder has spent his energy and isn't ready to uproot Fuduntu to support large changes. It's not even a complete disapperance, as the rest of the Fuduntu team is planning to come up with a new distro following the Fuduntu principles (Forgot where I read it. It was a comment thread.) The only constant is change. Since I've decided to move away from Ubuntu based distro's and on to Manjaro, I've been confronted with the imminent end of life for the Cinnamon desktop. I've had to bite the bullet and go with the desktop environment that has the best shot to be around a few years from now, so I've switched to Gnome 3. I still hate the out-of-the-box default workflow, but being confronted with it, I discovered something worthwhile in Cairo dock. I like Cinnamon for its menu, window list and system tray. Cairo dock has that and more. |
| caitlyn Apr 16, 2013 8:17 PM EDT |
I'm sorry to see this happen. Andrew's stated reason was that he couldn't put in the time needed, not systemd. systemd is a contributing factor, but the way I read it the migration from gtk+ 2.x to 3.x is the big reason. Producing and maintaining a distro is a gargantuan effort. The support time alone has kept a small, private project I'm part of from a public release. We debate it, we came close to announcing it a couple of time, but in the end we don't ever seem to do it. I have nothing at all against systemd. I actually think it's a necessary change. I also understand why some distros with limited resources don't want to make major changes. I think systemd is just the tip of the iceberg. Wait until Wayland and Mir start getting adopted and support for older video continues to drop by the wayside at an accelerated pace. |
| r_a_trip Apr 17, 2013 4:46 AM EDT |
Yes, there are major shifts coming, but this isn't anything new. We've had a.out --> ELF, the libc shift, the transition from XFree86 to X.org, the turbulence in the 2.4 kernel series and the rocky adoption of PulseAudio. On a non-technical level, we've had the Linus doesn't scale and the whole bitkeeper saga and there was the SCO thing and MS rattling the patent sword. The previous is just a quick summation off the top of my head. I don't think people would fault smaller distro's if they would pause for a bit and keep their current offering supported. Make sure the communication is done well. Tell your users that, yes, upstream is shifting and they need time to rebase on the new infrastructure. Keep the old base in place, do security updates and do roll out the updates to desktop applications like Firefox, Chromium, LibreOffice, InkScape, Gimp, etc. |
| caitlyn Apr 17, 2013 2:52 PM EDT |
I can't disagree with you. One thing we should note, though. Fuduntu forked from Fedora 14. It's completely self-developed, as in every package, and not derivative. That adds even more work. |
| r_a_trip Apr 18, 2013 3:30 AM EDT |
Being an offshoot and not a derivative does complicate things, as the integration of the changes has to be done by the Fuduntu team themselves. Then again, "Fuduntu Next" probably will have an easier time keeping up, once systemd is implemented. Anything related to init and service management is tightly integrated with systemd and well maintained for the future. |
| tuxchick Apr 18, 2013 11:10 AM EDT |
Silly users, you should learn to code so you can maintain your own custom distro just the way you like it. |
| CFWhitman Apr 18, 2013 11:32 AM EDT |
I can't help but be a bit skeptical about systemd. If I'm going to violate the basic Unix principles like: "Do one thing, and do it well." "Write programs to handle text streams because that is a universal interface." "Choose portability over efficiency." "Use shell scripts to increase leverage and portability." etc. there'd better be a very good reason. |
| Scott_Ruecker Apr 18, 2013 1:21 PM EDT |
I'm not sure I have the room for that many wrinkles on my brain Carla..:-P |
| BernardSwiss Apr 18, 2013 7:18 PM EDT |
CFWhitman wrote: That does seem to be the basis of much of the criticism. It's certainly more than just the standard resistance resistance to something new and different -- there certainly wasn't this level of rancour directed to Upstart. I can see systemd making sense for some situations -- but as a "one size fits all" solution it seems... regressive. |
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