Obviously...
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| cabreh Feb 08, 2013 3:48 AM EDT |
This person doesn't work in a main-stream, standard office type environment. You know. Where people sit at a desk with either a desktop computer or a laptop in front of them. Where they do such unimportant things. Like data entry, spreadsheets, word processing, desktop publishing or graphic arts to name a few. Things that keep businesses actually going. Well I do, and believe me I have not come across very many of these offices using any form of Linux on the desktop. It's either Windows or Mac at this point. This is where the "desktop" is located. And the battle is being lost at this point. In the organization where I work, part of my job is Mac and Linux support. That is less than one percent of my workload. By a long shot. And it's not because they are so much more reliable. They just aren't there. |
| Ridcully Feb 08, 2013 4:24 AM EDT |
This person doesn't work in a mainstream standard.etc. etc....either. As a crusty old retired fogey, he sits at home with a laptop.....BUT......what he DOES see everytime he hits the big city is youngsters of 15-30 manipulating smartphones and pads in the same way he manipulates the laptop at home. They leave me for dead and what they do astounds me. What he also knows is that you just about cannot sell a Windows pad or phone to these youngsters.....they don't want a bar of them. It's either Android or iOS. It's taken me quite a while to realise that these pads and smartphones are the desktops/laptops of the new generation of computer users.......and given that Android is now the largest operating system on any of them, Linux (in this new form) has won the desktop wars. Oh......and did I mention that Chromebooks are now penetrating the corporate world faster than you can say "Linus Torvalds" ? They are cheaper, more effective, secure, and reliable, compared to their Win-based competitors, and best of all, they don't get infected with Win-based viruses. It is rapidly becoming a Linux world, in my view...with Apple sharing a pretty decent sized minority part of it..and it's taken me a while to see it too......but isn't it so satisfying ? There's a last little bit to this "diatribe" I'd like to share as well. I checked with a sales rep at the computer store in the local business centre. His reply to a very direct question was equally as blunt: "The Win8 screen is a complete turn off to most computer customers. They simply don't want Win8. Win7 based computers still sell, although at slower rates, but Win8 computers ? Nope." I got the impression from him that Win8 screens are simply too novel for the users to feel comfortable with. If I were to make a prediction, I'd guess that Win8 will go the way of Vista and that shortly we will see "Win7-Pro" appear to try to keep Microsoft sales running...... |
| cabreh Feb 08, 2013 4:57 AM EDT |
I agree totally that Windows 8 is pure garbage. That's why our organization is sticking with Windows 7 at this point. Also please don't misunderstand where my feelings are on this. At home I use Linux almost exclusively. The only reason I have a Windows install is for my work support (being a Systems Administrator for a, basically, totally Windows shop). You also need to keep in mind that any business, with any intelligent management, will avoid putting their data "in the cloud" on some other companies computers. This can really limit the effectiveness of the handheld devices and especially Chromebooks. As much as I agree that "on the street" the various Linux and iOS systems are ruling the roost, this is not the business desktop. I defy you to properly work with the applications I mentioned above as being used in offices and not get annoyed at the limitations imposed by the pad/smartphone devices. Because my work environment is so strongly Windows based, even a Mac can be more of a pain to use in spite of any advantage you may gain in a particular application. I tried it. Now it sits on a secondary desk as a support tool only. So, I still say that on the work environment desktop Linux has a long haul ahead. Even if the consumer desktop has been won. |
| nmset Feb 08, 2013 5:25 AM EDT |
Don't know for the general understanding, but for me, 'Linux Desktop' refers to a PC/Laptop running some Linux distro and not to those pads/phones, that are and remain gadgets pushed to consumers (me too) because they can afford it. Even the youngsters cannot do real work with these, they are designed for some 'beep beep', quick small notes, small messages and reading web pages. Linux as a kernel is indeed everywhere more and more, but as a desktop OS/UI... not for tomorrow. |
| tracyanne Feb 08, 2013 5:38 AM EDT |
@nmset,
Quoting:...not to those pads/phones... Those devises are the Linux desktop, and they are being used for all the same things as the majority of people have ever used computers for, social interaction. |
| Ridcully Feb 08, 2013 6:30 AM EDT |
@nmset and cabreh.....Let me also support tracyanne's statement. In a very generalised sense, the business/corporate sector, science areas and publishing (and there are more areas than these of course) still must use the conventional keyboard and mouse interactive environment - nothing can replace them. I agree totally with you that pads and smartphones cannot and never will replace the conventional computer for those environments. The reason is essentially that they are the "creative" areas of computing, whereas the smartphone and pads are the "consumer" areas of computing. If you want to create a book and all its images, the conventional computer, word processing, image manipulation and publishing software are necessities.....but this "cohort of people" is a minority compared to the vast majority who, as tracyanne indicated, are using their very differently constructed computers for social interaction (emails/tweets/facebook), or playing music, or reading the books you have just created, or browsing the internet and consuming web pages. The vast majority of computer users manipulate/read/play and "consume" the results produced by the artistic, music oriented, graphic oriented, scientific or publishing minority. What Microsoft and others were previously able to exploit was that until the last 3-4 years, the only way you could "consume" in the digital age, was to have a conventional computer and Redmond dominated that type of computer......but now the standard computers are ebooks, pads, smartphones and quite often the one device does all the necessary things where previously you needed two or three separate devices.....the conventional laptop/desktop is now reserved largely for the much smaller creative minority.....hence the very marked drop in conventional laptop/desktop sales and Microsoft's desperation to crack the smartphone and pad markets. It's fascinating to watch and so far, I cannot see Microsoft has an answer, largely because the kids no longer want Redmond software on their "computers". If these trends continue, Microsoft has a very shaky future because its products certainly appear to be becoming irrelevant. PS.......And if smartphones and pads aren't computers, then my whole concept of what makes a computer is shaky. Smartphones and pads both have a core processing chip, a RAM memory, an operating system, a method of data input and a method of data output display.....and that is exactly what my laptop is, when reduced to its essentials. |
| notbob Feb 08, 2013 8:56 AM EDT |
tracyann wrote:Those devises are the Linux desktop I have a linux desktop computer. I also have a semi-smart cell phone, OS unknown. The only thing they have in common is they are both computers. I can't put my desktop computer in my pocket, but I can certainly put a computer in my pocket. This has been possible since electronic calculators. I would also agree that handheld devices have mostly replaced desktop computers for many, But, not everyone and even youngsters know the difference. My oldest pre-teen granddaughter lives and dies for her iphone. The younger one wants a full sized laptop, but has no use for a cell phone. Can't even gift her one. I figure the author used the term "desktop" instead of computer cuz linux users all start frothing at the mouth when they see it. A blogger hasta do something to get attention. Certainly worked in this case. ;) |
| gary_newell Feb 08, 2013 9:00 AM EDT |
"PS.......And if smartphones and pads aren't computers, then my whole concept of what makes a computer is shaky. Smartphones and pads both have a core processing chip, a RAM memory, an operating system, a method of data input and a method of data output display.....and that is exactly what my laptop is, when reduced to its essentials." Not to forget of course the story on here a few weeks ago that suggests that Canonical is making a phone operating system which will enable you to take your phone to work, plug it in to a dock where you can then do your daily work stuff and then when you have finished undock it and use it as a phone again. That doesn't sound so unlikely as an option. But.... here is the problem. It is the same problem we have always had. The people at the top of these companies and the IT managers use Windows. They like Windows, They know Windows and therefore all their decisions are based towards Windows. Where I work they are heading back towards using a central Citrix farm for deploying applications to users which does mean of course that the actual users can use any operating system (that has a citrix client) to connect to the Citrix farm to do their work. This sort of computing would mean that Linux could be used as the dumb terminal to connect to the farm but in reality they will choose Windows.... because that is what they have always done. |
| cabreh Feb 08, 2013 9:28 AM EDT |
Well if the article was titled "Linux Won the OS wars a long time ago", I wouldn't have batted an eye. However, the term desktop implies that you are talking about a system that is specifically desktop oriented. Yes, you may sit at a desk with your pad or phone at times, but that is not the main function, and normally you use it in locations other than a desktop. Hence my original statement that Linux had not (and may not for a long time) own the desktop. I agree with all the rest of what you say. For a "consumer type" the pads and phones alone are fine. For real desktop work, not really. Of course there are always exceptions. I'm one myself in that if all I want to do is consume I will still use a desktop or laptop because I'm an old codger who wants to see what he's consuming. |
| CFWhitman Feb 08, 2013 11:20 AM EDT |
I know hardly anyone who doesn't still use a desktop computer part of the time. That would seem to indicate to me that the desktop is far from dead, and tablets and smartphones have not completely replaced it for the majority of people. Tablets and smartphones may have replaced a lot of previous use of the desktop, but not the necessity for a desktop computer. On the other hand, desktop computers from three years ago, or even five years ago, will still handle the majority of desktop needs for most people (of course this is especially true if those machines are running an appropriate Linux distribution, but also true with Windows XP). I think that the desktop market would be slowing down a bit due to this factor even without the rise of tablets. Of course tablets and smartphones still have the capacity to make conventional desktops somewhat obsolete through the use of docking arrangements that let you use tablets and smartphones as laptops and desktops when necessary, along with appropriate peripherals. Then, and only then, will these devices become desktop machines. My nephew has an iPod Touch, which he loves. He also has a more than five year old laptop that I gave him (a company write-off because of age). It is an Intel Core2 Duo with some odd Nvidia business GPU and with Ubuntu Studio installed on it. He uses it to surf the Web, play Minecraft and Battlemass, along with other games, watch YouTube, play DVDs and various other things that young teenage users do. His older laptop (a previous company cast-off) has been adopted by his younger brother, who uses it as much as he's allowed. It has a Centrino single core processor and Intel graphics of some sort (it's at least seven years old; I'm not sure exactly how old) and is running Xubuntu Linux. Even as old as it is, it still works to play Minecraft and Battlemass (as well as a lot of Flash games online), watch YouTube videos, and play DVDs quite well. If you made the older nephew give up either his iPod or his laptop, he would not be at all happy about either choice, but I'm pretty sure he would give up the iPod and keep the laptop. |
| dinotrac Feb 08, 2013 12:46 PM EDT |
I know that my kids user their tablets and their phones a lot. They don't use them to write term papers. |
| Fettoosh Feb 08, 2013 12:55 PM EDT |
We will know that Linux won the desktop battle if this comes true |
| dinotrac Feb 08, 2013 1:21 PM EDT |
@Fettoosh: That's a long way from winning the desktop battle. Macs have had Office for years, yet remain relative bit players. It will, however, be a good sign. |
| Fettoosh Feb 08, 2013 1:52 PM EDT |
@Dino, I said the battle not the war. The battle proves it is a viable desktop OS as well as server, the war is world domination. :-) |
| dinotrac Feb 08, 2013 3:54 PM EDT |
@fett -- My bad. You did say battle. And you are correct! |
| caitlyn Feb 08, 2013 4:16 PM EDT |
I do work in a main-stream, standard office type environment. It's a government office. So far about 270 users have been migrated to Linux on the desktop (SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop) and I expect the final go ahead to move a four digit figure to Linux will come later this month. Just because it hasn't happened in your office doesn't mean it isn't happening. Forrester Research puts Linux at 9% of the corporate desktop. That isn't winning the corporate desktop by a long shot, but it's a big step in the right direction, and that number is growing. |
| herzeleid Feb 08, 2013 4:47 PM EDT |
That's an encouraging sign Caitlyn, thanks for the heads-up. |
| Ridcully Feb 08, 2013 5:13 PM EDT |
@Caitlyn.....I'll repeat herzeleid's comments as well, but for another equally important reason, SLED. I have no connections with the government/corporate sectors so I have no idea what operating systems they are running, but your statement re SLED is extremely interesting and very encouraging. I have been reading articles recently that seem to suggest that SUSE as a distribution is "slowly dwindling away" which would be very disturbing to me because I think the solid engineering that is displayed in openSUSE, my preferred OS, is exceptionally good and I would be bitterly disappointed to see SUSE and openSUSE vanish. I also think that Chromebooks are going to penetrate the corporate and government sectors much more than they have done recently.....I don't "know" of course, but I'd be willing to guess that the "cloud" they need to access for some purposes does not have to be a Google server......it can equally be the corporate/government server.....And if I am correct, then that makes the Chromebook one heck of an attractive device to those sectors. I may be wrong so if you care to correct and comment, I'd like that please. |
| caitlyn Feb 08, 2013 5:20 PM EDT |
I have zero experience with Chromebooks so I will have to leave that with someone else. I believe that SLES/SLED is pretty well established in old line Novell Netware clients. Many shops migrated from Netware 6.5 to OES over SLES. SUSE+Novell have kept the pricing pretty darned attractive for large enterprise customers with both environments. I don't think SUSE is fading away bit I do think Red Hat is the dominant player. Does that help any? |
| Ridcully Feb 08, 2013 5:50 PM EDT |
Yes Caitlyn.......ta muchly. And said with much relief. |
| Fettoosh Feb 08, 2013 5:59 PM EDT |
Quoting:And you are correct! Is that really you, are you an impostor? :-) |
| Fettoosh Feb 08, 2013 6:03 PM EDT |
Quoting:It's a government office. So far about 270 users have been migrated to Linux on the desktop Good work @caitlyn, keep it going. One thing is for sure, if MS did know better about Linux proliferation, they wouldn't prepare to make MSOffice available for Linux. |
| Fettoosh Feb 08, 2013 6:12 PM EDT |
Quoting:I also think that Chromebooks are going to penetrate the corporate and government sectors much more than they have done recently... the "cloud" they need to access for some purposes does not have to be a Google server......it can equally be the corporate/government server.... I fully agree with @Ridcully. Such a setup would save corporations/governments a huge amount on purchases and support. Of course there would still be full fledged desktops and other form factor devices. There is isn't a device that fits all? |
| tracyanne Feb 08, 2013 6:26 PM EDT |
For business a device like a chromebook is a double edged sword. It's great in that business has full control of the desktop, and what the travelling user can do and access, but it becomes potentially a bit of a security nightmare, in that a lost or stolen chromebook has direct access to the company servers, and the data thereon. The usage of them would require some careful thought and probably new security measures. |
| dinotrac Feb 08, 2013 8:15 PM EDT |
@fett - I'm not really me, but myself pretending to be me. |
| Ridcully Feb 08, 2013 8:52 PM EDT |
@PseudoDino......."O, that way madness lies; let me shun that; No more of that." Sorry Dino, I just could NOT resist that quote. @Tracyanne....Point taken and agreed. I haven't handled a Chromebook yet, but surely they could be given a log-in password the same as any other Linux based computer ? If that is the case, then wouldn't they be virtually the same as any other company laptop currently in existence ? Or am I really, really missing something here ? |
| Fettoosh Feb 08, 2013 8:57 PM EDT |
Quoting:I'm not really me, but myself pretending to be me. Hmm, good one Dino, I am confuse for the night. :-) |
| DrGeoffrey Feb 08, 2013 9:15 PM EDT |
I've received reports that a very large health care affiliated corporation in the U.S. is moving its data, quite possibly all of it, 100% on-line. Corporations may not be as averse to on-line as some have argued above. Is it wise? I doubt it. At least, not as long as they continue to run Windows. But the mere fact that they are still running Windows says much about their concerns for security. |
| dinotrac Feb 09, 2013 12:54 PM EDT |
@Dr -- That's very interesting, especially with all of the HIPAA considerations. Does the thought of that fill you with warm fuzzies? |
| DrGeoffrey Feb 09, 2013 5:56 PM EDT |
Can't say it does. But, I was also told, "On-line is the future. Get used to it." |
| caitlyn Feb 11, 2013 11:24 AM EDT |
Quoting:Good work @caitlyn, keep it going.I can't take credit for it. Most of that user base was here when I arrived. Now, the new cluster of servers for an increased deployment of thin clients will be my baby :) |
| Bob_Robertson Feb 11, 2013 11:34 AM EDT |
Ooooo, thin clients. My favorite small office deployment model. |
| caitlyn Feb 11, 2013 1:26 PM EDT |
Great deployment model for any high wear and tear environment. My first experience with them was in a commercial banking environment. I've since done them in educational, office and prison environments. Very resilient. |
| Steven_Rosenber Feb 11, 2013 6:12 PM EDT |
The more robust LANs get, the better the thin-client experience, I imagine. If you have 1 GB, it must work very well. If there were 10 GB clients, that would be seamless, I figure. |
| jdixon Feb 11, 2013 7:52 PM EDT |
> Ooooo, thin clients. My favorite small office deployment model. Except that the commercial thin client machines I've looked at are way overpriced for what you get. You're probably better off re-purposing old desktop machines that you would otherwise have to replace. |
| caitlyn Feb 12, 2013 10:53 AM EDT |
Quoting:You're probably better off re-purposing old desktop machines that you would otherwise have to replaceThere are volume discounts that can greatly reduce the cost. When you take hardware maintenance costs in high stress environments where wear and tear and difficult environmental conditions can destroy traditional desktops quickly the thin clients become very cost effective. Quoting:Corporations may not be as averse to on-line as some have argued above.A former customer of mine put it this way: many businesses are totally clueless when it comes to security. With all the problems inherent in the Cloud the end result is still way better than what they had when everything was in house. I'll also point out that openSUSE now has an image for some Cloudbooks, so it is entire possible corporate IT will buy them as cheap laptops and simply reimage them with their own custom image just like they do with any other laptop. |
| jdixon Feb 12, 2013 12:26 PM EDT |
> When you take hardware maintenance costs in high stress environments where wear and tear and difficult environmental conditions can destroy traditional desktops quickly the thin clients become very cost effective. I'll accept that qualifier. :) The volume discounts are also usually available for PC's, so that's not an edge to the thin clients. But I agree that high stress environments require special hardware, not standard desktops. For your average office work environment, I think my point is still valid. |
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