More of the same......
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Ridcully Jan 14, 2013 3:01 AM EDT |
....unless MIT recognises that the paywall of JSTOR locks away information that could lead to innovation and progress. It's early days, but the response of L. Rafael Reif is one that Sir Humphrey Appleby of "Yes Minister" would be proud to see. Like Aaron, I utterly detest what is being done to the goldmine of USA information resources. There must be a better way.....one that throws these resources open to everybody. Please find it, because until then MIT, it's business as usual with all the stagnation that implies and Reif's address means absolutely nothing. And, MIT, if you think I am incredibly bitter about this senseless death in which you were involved, you'd be right. |
| flufferbeer Jan 14, 2013 3:40 AM EDT |
Yes indeedy!! It seems to me that all that the _CURRENT_ MIT President is saying is that We're sorry for the MIT community's pain, but we sure as heck AREN'T sorry for being the very cause of it!! Basically, L. Rafael Reif's bombastic address of calling for "a thorough analysis of the school's involvement" comes down to passing-the-buck, whitewashing his hands of the whole matter, and hoping the whole stink about locking up the JSTOR info and Aaron's resulting suicide just fades away ASAP. +1 Ridcully! 2c |
| Bob_Robertson Jan 14, 2013 9:59 AM EDT |
Laurance Lessig's comments concern how MIT's wishy-washy stance enabled the continued "energetic" prosecution of the case. |
| penguinist Jan 14, 2013 10:25 AM EDT |
I have also been very frustrated and disappointed by the lack of openness in academic publications. The current system seems like a holdout from the Middle Ages, not something that belongs in the Information Age. It's time that this antiquated system is put up to scrutiny. If Aaron's tragedy becomes the catalyst for this to happen, then his martyrdom will have some meaning. |
| montezuma Jan 14, 2013 10:31 AM EDT |
Here is a practical first step Reil could take: Take on the parasitic scientific publishing industry. http://thecostofknowledge.com/ It is also up to the scientific community to ensure that their best work appears in open access journals such as these: :http://www.mdpi.com/ The scientific community at the top level needs to shift. They are very conservative about the status that derives from closed expensive journals that exploit their work for very little contribution. The problem is that the best work usually appears in very specific long standing journals which have very strict quality control through a tough refereeing structure. Some open access journals have been more concerned with paid contributions (by scientists via grants) rather than strict quality control. This is an issue that could be solved by University Presidents such as Reil taking a leadership role. |
| Fettoosh Jan 14, 2013 10:58 AM EDT |
Quoting:... but we sure as heck AREN'T sorry for being the very cause of it!! @flufferbeer, Aaron's death is indeed a very sad and shocking thing. But let's not rush to blame. I am not sure whether to believe Wikipedia or not, but may be your are being a little too quick and harsh on MIT. According to this article on Wikipedia, it says: "Highlighting is mine" Quoting: Prosecutors in the case say Swartz acted with the intention of making the papers available on P2P file-sharing sites.[19] They pressed on, even after JSTOR and MIT said they were not interested in pursuing criminal charges.[15][16] It is also important to remember that the restrictions are probably being mandated by the publishers more than the JSTOR or edu. institutions. {edited] Here is something MIT is doing to advance open infromation Quoting:JSTOR is licensed mainly to academic institutions, public libraries, research institutions, museums and schools. More than 7,000 institutions in more than 150 countries have access.[4] ... |
| flufferbeer Jan 14, 2013 12:58 PM EDT |
@fetoosh, Back at you with three. 1. >> But let's not rush to blame No, I disagree. Many of us are instead putting the blame SQUARELY on the prosecutor, United States District Attorney Carmen Ortiz, for her overreach in Aaron Swartz's case. You should definitely go ahead and re-read Larry lessig's blog directly blaming the prosecutor, http://lessig.tumblr.com/post/40347463044/prosecutor-as-bull... . I see from above that at least Bob Robertson has done so. AAMOF, there is actually an online petition gaining some momentum here in the U.S. to REMOVE Carmen Ortiz from office for her DIRECT role in Aaron's case, https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/remove-united-states-district-attorney-carmen-ortiz-office-overreach-case-aaron-swartz/RQNrG1Ck 2. >> but may be your are being a little too quick and harsh on MIT..... Quoting: Prosecutors in the case say Swartz acted with the intention of making the papers available on P2P file-sharing sites.[19] They pressed on, even after JSTOR and MIT said they were not interested in pursuing criminal charges.[15][16] OTOH, in Larry Lessig's blog which I already linked above , -- quote -- Early on, and to its great credit, JSTOR figured “appropriate” out: They declined to pursue their own action against Aaron, and they asked the government to drop its. MIT, to its great shame, was not as clear, and so the prosecutor had the excuse he needed to continue his war against the “criminal” who we who loved him knew as Aaron. -- end -- Again, you really owe it to yourself to RE-READ Larry Lessig's blog. Once you have done so, note MY "highlighted" caps here: "MIT, to ITS GREAT SHAME, was NOT as clear, AND SO the prosecutor HAD THE EXCUSE HE NEEDED to continue his war against the “criminal” who we who loved him knew as Aaron." So NO, we're NOT being "a little too quick and harsh on MIT" at all!! 3. >> Here is something MIT is doing to advance open infromation... Quoting:JSTOR is licensed mainly to academic institutions, public libraries, research institutions, museums and schools. More than 7,000 institutions in more than 150 countries have access.[4] ... No, I think all of this as trying to patch up the holes, and as I wrote before, the MIT president's WHITEWASHING of the old-fogey-stink of the Publishers' +PLUS+ MIT's efforts to resist the advance of open information! The not-so-funny thing about this JSTOR quote is that MIT is STILL enabling THE PUBLISHERS to resist FULLY opening-up access to PUBLIC documents!!! Any perceived accommodations to really advance open infromation are only GRUDGINGLY carried out at best, and mostly based on the huge outcry now FOLLOWING Aaron's martyrdom!! 2 more c's |
| Bob_Robertson Jan 14, 2013 2:31 PM EDT |
My bias concerning both Copyright and US Prosecutors helped that part jump out at me and stick in my mind. |
| Fettoosh Jan 14, 2013 3:29 PM EDT |
@flufferbeer,Quoting:No, I disagree. Many of us are instead putting the blame SQUARELY on the prosecutor, ... I wasn't defending anyone and especially not the prosecutor. All what I was saying is we are having a case of "he said She said" on the internet. May be we should be more cautious before we jump to conclusions. What the president is trying to do is to find out if there was any wrong doing on the MIT part to take action that would prevent such occurrence in the future. I think MIT deserve a wait and see period. Quoting:No, I think all of this as trying to patch up the holes,... Course material openness was done long before this sad incident. Besides, they aren't doing for the sake of openness only, they are doing it for MIT's benefits too since no degree is granted until exams are passed by candidates and fees paid to MIT. |
| caitlyn Jan 14, 2013 4:05 PM EDT |
Quoting: I wasn't defending anyone and especially not the prosecutor. All what I was saying is we are having a case of "he said She said" on the internet. May be we should be more cautious before we jump to conclusions. What the president is trying to do is to find out if there was any wrong doing on the MIT part to take action that would prevent such occurrence in the future. I think MIT deserve a wait and see period.Thank you for being a voice of reason in all this. Yes, Mr. Swartz' death is tragic. Yes, it's a loss to the community. Yes, the prosecutor doesn't look very good right now if MIT wasn't interested in prosecuting. Yes, quite possibly the statutes that governed this prosecution need to be changed. We are also dealing with the death of a troubled young man who was suffering from depression and who made a very poor choice in his means of protesting the closed nature or academic scientific publications. It seems to me that no matter how this plays out there will be plenty of blame to go around. Instead of concentrating on playing the blame game let's try to learn exactly what happened and work to fix the parts of the system that are broken. |
| Bob_Robertson Jan 14, 2013 4:22 PM EDT |
> let's try to learn exactly what happened and work to fix the parts of the system that are broken. I agree entirely with this statement, even while having a disagreement about what is and isn't broken. Focus on facts rather than emotion, and maybe we can make some progress. Together. |
| djohnston Jan 14, 2013 4:48 PM EDT |
@flufferbeer,Quoting: United States District Attorney Carmen Ortiz, for his overreach in Aaron Swartz's case ... Minor point. But, still ... Carmen Ortiz is a woman, not a man. |
| Bob_Robertson Jan 14, 2013 5:12 PM EDT |
So, change that to "Prosecutrix"? |
| flufferbeer Jan 14, 2013 5:13 PM EDT |
@djohnson, >> Minor point. But, still ... Carmen Ortiz is a woman, not a man. Yeah, and apparently larry lessig got Carmen Ortiz's gender wrong too, in the blog link I brought above. Unless Larry really meant a prosecutor OTHER than Carmen Ortiz in "so the prosecutor had the excuse he needed...." BTW as far as the reasonable "jus' the facts Ma'am", the petitiion to Remove United States District Attorney Ms Carmen Ortiz Esq from office for overreach in the case of Aaron Swartz (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/remove-united-states-district-attorney-carmen-ortiz-office-overreach-case-aaron-swartz/RQNrG1Ck) is REALLY picking up steam (not Valve's ;} ) since I first wrote above ~4 hours ago! I STILL don't find it at all surprising that Aaron's family holds MIT partially responsible, whether MIT was in the full legal right or not, for helping the prosecutor downright RUIN Aaron's life!! -fb |
Posting in this forum is limited to members of the group: [ForumMods, SITEADMINS, MEMBERS.]
Becoming a member of LXer is easy and free. Join Us!