I'd ask SJVN's question a different way
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Ridcully Nov 26, 2012 12:14 AM EDT |
My question would be: Is Gnome now worth saving ? From all I have seen the Cinnamon fork has had great press and while Unity has its yea/nay sayers, it seems to be moving along. I suppose you could say the same about KDE4 when it first hit the scene, but KDE4 has gone from strength to strength as a great DE. I suspect Gnome's real problem is that unless it gives the user a simple, flexible, powerful, fast, stable and familiar experience, what's its reason for existence other than it's an alternative to KDE ? It was a purist solution to the Qt problem - but that has long since vanished as a reason. So perhaps there is another question too that could be asked: Is Gnome searching for a reason for its existence ? And before the eggs and tomatoes begin to fly, let me hasten to say that I am not in any way knocking Gnome - just posing hypotheticals about its future given what the Gnome team have done. I have a friend who always swore by Gnome2 and derided my use of KDE......ummmm....he's now using Unity or Cinnamon depending on the day of the month and how he feels at the time. I've never used Gnome, but I have no doubt it was a great DE. A shame to see it in this state, it really is. 2c :-) |
| dyfet Nov 26, 2012 9:05 AM EDT |
What I find interesting in all this is that after screwing over the one guy and his original efforts to do exactly what they are talking about now (I am speaking of the original gnome 3 mint extensions effort that proceeded cinnamon), they now suddenly say they will in some way embrace this very same strategy they had explicitly chose to work at hindering. I think it is more a case of feeling the heat of and fearing the fork that might swallow them into further irrelevance. I call it the Cinnamon effect :) |
| montezuma Nov 26, 2012 10:30 AM EDT |
I think they made a strategic error in attempting to become tablet oriented. There already was a highly successful linux based tablet desktop i.e. Android. I own an Android tablet and while it has it's uses it most definitely is not a desktop replacement. Trying to steer a famously ornery user base (as linux users are) in a direction they did not want in the main has led to a foreseeable disaster. It is clear from the emergence of Unity, Cinnamon and Mate that the enduser base do not like the tablet direction. The problem as I see it here is a lot of developers working on a project which has only small demand for it. My choice would be for them to swallow their pride and sit down with the Mint developers and work out how to unfork Cinnamon. I mean it isn't really very different conceptually to what they are proposing with this new extension. In addition it really would help if they started listening to users like Clem does instead of arrogantly blowing them off all the time. A classic example is Nemo which arose because users wanted a double pane for Nautilus which the gnome devs were going to remove. I use a double pane all the time to transfer files from one network location to another. Why does my (and many other users) view on this not register with the gnome developers? Given all the problems listed above it would not surprise me if gnome folds and is replaced by Cinnamon. If so I sure hope Clem knows what he is doing in attracting fellow developers. |
| Ridcully Nov 26, 2012 5:20 PM EDT |
@montezuma......I am really surprised by your comment: Quoting:A classic example is Nemo which arose because users wanted a double pane for Nautilus which the gnome devs were going to remove. I use a double pane all the time to transfer files from one network location to another. Why does my (and many other users) view on this not register with the gnome developers? Until KDE4, I had never used the split window for file transfer. My usual method with KDE3.5's Konqueror was to open two copies of Konqueror and do it that way. Then I discovered the split view of Dolphin and given the choice, I simply would not go back to the older method. The split view is simply so useful and easy to handle - elegant even. I am amazed that the Gnome developers would even think of removing such a useful aspect of the Nemo file manager and surely they would have received feedback on the matter........and which they seem to have ignored ? |
| montezuma Nov 26, 2012 5:46 PM EDT |
Ridcully, Yeah unbelievable really and one of the main reasons Nemo was forked from Nautilus. The gnome devs seem to exist in an alternate universe where they are the experts and users are an annoying bunch of whingers. |
| Fettoosh Nov 26, 2012 6:26 PM EDT |
Quoting:My usual method with KDE3.5's Konqueror was to open two copies of Konqueror and do it that way @Ridcully, In Konqueror, users always had and still have the ability to split windows vertically and horizontally and as many times as their screen can allow. It is one of the nice features I used to compare folders, files, file contents, and web pages in addition to copying/managing files on ftp servers. By the way, Konqueror is still available in KDE 4 but Edited: NOT installed by default. When installed by user, it launches as Web browser, but can be launched as a file browser by creating a widget that executes the following command. konqueror --profile filemanagement And to use it as a Web Browser, create a widget with the following command kfmclient openProfile webbrowsing I still consider Konqueror to be the best file manager ever. |
| slacker_mike Nov 26, 2012 7:02 PM EDT |
@Fettoosh can't you just change the default file manager from Dolphin to Konqueror in the KDE system settings? I believe once you do that it opens in file management mode. |
| BernardSwiss Nov 26, 2012 8:05 PM EDT |
dyfet wrote: I think it is more a case of feeling the heat of and fearing the fork that might swallow them into further irrelevance. I call it the Cinnamon effect :) "The Cinnamon Effect" : I like it. I really like it. I think we have a winner! This would be an excellent addition to the FOSS and Linux lexicon. |
| Fettoosh Nov 26, 2012 9:01 PM EDT |
Quoting:can't you just change the default file manager from Dolphin to Konqueror in the KDE system settings? @slacker_mike, I think that used to be the case before Dolphin. Now when Konqueror is launched without specifying any option will launch in Web browsing mode. But if another application opens file manager, I believe it will open what is set to be the default. Any how, I do want Dolphin to be my default and use Konqueror when I need its unique features. |
| Ridcully Nov 26, 2012 11:06 PM EDT |
@Fettoosh.......That's remarkable with respect to Konqueror. I never, never knew the process was available, all of which shows how you can be totally uninformed about something you use daily. It was because Dolphin put a split screen icon in place on the tool bar that I first began to explore the utility......and I was hooked. So for all those who want to throw split screens at me over my error, profuse apologies. Nevertheless, I think I will stay permanently with Dolphin......unless the KDE4 devs decide to remove abilities from Dolphin, but I don't think that is ever likely. |
| Fettoosh Nov 27, 2012 9:55 AM EDT |
Quoting:So for all those who want to throw split screens at me over my error, profuse apologies. @Ridcully, Don't worry, even the developers of KDE are not aware of all the capabilities and features that KDE offers. They are not all documented.I myself have been using KDE for a very long time and still don't know many of its secrets. :-) I have the thought that many of the users who don't use KDE is because they don't know of what it is capable of. |
| CFWhitman Nov 28, 2012 1:04 PM EDT |
Working in a command line a lot makes you more aware of split window type file managers because console file managers tend to all work like this, thanks to Midnight Commander, where it all started. Of course there are quite a number of graphical file managers which were designed around the same concept, like Gnome Commander, tuxcmd, Krusader, Xfe, Emelfm, Gentoo file manager (not related to the Gentoo distribution, which came later), etc. They tend to be convenient, and some are extemely powerful once you get to know how to use them (of course, power can also mean danger if you do the wrong thing :-) ). |
| montezuma Nov 28, 2012 6:29 PM EDT |
@ CFWhitman One advantage of the old Nautilus (and Nemo) was/is the ability to easily open *remote* file directories using gnome's remote directory infrastructure. This makes things like maintaining a webpage and multiple computer systems (supercomputer + PC as graphical terminal) much much more convenient. |
| BernardSwiss Nov 28, 2012 8:52 PM EDT |
So Norton Commander was just the first GUI based split-pane file manager? Or not even that, but just the first DOS/Windows split-pane file manager? |
| CFWhitman Nov 28, 2012 10:05 PM EDT |
No, Norton Commander was first. Midnight Commander was just first for Linux. Sorry for not being clear about that. |
| BernardSwiss Nov 28, 2012 11:10 PM EDT |
OK, that makes things clearer. But surely there were file managers (and dual-pane file managers) in use before either Windows or Linux showed up on the scene? Was Norton Commander really the first, ever? edit: apparently, Norton Commander actually was the first, or close to first (it seems there was something called PathMinder (also on DOS) -- but I don't know if it was an actual dual-panel/3-pane "orthodox" file manager). A lot of material about "orthodox" file managers here; http://www.softpanorama.org/OFM/Paradigm/index.shtml |
| dinotrac Nov 29, 2012 11:26 AM EDT |
@BS --- The first one I remember is Norton Commander -- in its DOS version. I think TopView may have had some of the same functionality, but it was primarily a multi-tasking tool. |
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