Another incompetent review from a dabbler
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| cmost Sep 03, 2012 3:16 PM EDT |
Exhibit A was his struggle with which edition to download. The moron should have done his homework; if he had, he would have chosen Linux Mint Debian Edition which has BOTH Cinnamon and MATE. This set the stage for the rest of the article. Evidently, this so called "expert's" biggest "problems" with Mint Cinnamon are unfamiliar icons (can't he read?) and, God forbid, a green battery icon in the system tray. The horrors! He then goes on to rant about the removable devices icon being a computer. Hey moron, it's called an icon theme! Try heading over to Gnome-look.org and try one of the literally hundreds of alternative themes to choose from! Also, for someone who spends considerable time bellyaching about the menu, from its organization to its relative size, one would think this author would know that it's possible for him to change to another menu or a simpler menu by installing a Cinnamon extension. Again, if the reviewer were a serious Linux user instead of a wannabe dabbler and took the time to actually do his homework, he'd know about those options. He would have also known it was possible to remove the Mint menu and use a classic Gnome menu scheme with every single previous version of Mint! The rest of this ridiculous article was incoherent ramblings about networking before he wraps up with more nonsense about the menu!! Where do they find these people?!? |
| slacker_mike Sep 03, 2012 5:40 PM EDT |
Disclaimer, I am not a fan of Dark Duck's blog, that being said I think the vitriol and outrage heaped at him for every review he posts is a bit much. I think some of the comments about unfamiliar icons are actually valid criticisms for a distro aimed at the first time Linux user. I think that the new user coming from a Windows or Mac background to Mint would struggle to find familiar applications by the icon alone and as someone who doesn't use Mint I was surprised to learn they use the Faenza icon set as default. I think if you approach his review as a review done by a very new Linux user the critiques of the icon set and menu are valid, yes they can both be changed, but considering the target audience of Mint I think the feedback is warranted. |
| caitlyn Sep 03, 2012 6:20 PM EDT |
I'm with cmost on this one and I do believe DarkDuck deserves all the derision he receives and then some. It is impossible to do a fair review with a live image and no install. I also think raging about icon themes is ridiculous, even in a distro designed for Linux newcomers. |
| tracyanne Sep 03, 2012 8:24 PM EDT |
I can't even read cmost's post, some paragraphing would be good |
| albinard Sep 03, 2012 8:33 PM EDT |
@cmost and caitlyn: Dark Duck is not reviewing for you. He's reviewing for people who are not so familiar with Linux that they are jaded and dismissive of any but the newest and most arcane aspects of the kernel. Do you read his material solely to criticize it? |
| BernardSwiss Sep 03, 2012 8:34 PM EDT |
After reading these comments, I had to go and read the article :-P And now that I have, I find I am more or less in agreement with both camps. DD tends to produce a rather uneven quality of work. Overall he has shown some noticeable (but not consistent) improvement. But he also can take a rather truculent attitude to constructive criticisms. I also agree that the attitude towards him here can be a little knee-jerkish (though some of that attitude has been provoked by DD as well). As for the review itself -- it wasn't great, but it wasn't really terrible. He at least makes an effort to distinguish between his personal preference and actual flaws. He also describes a little basic trouble-shooting. I've seen much worse on "mainstream" sites. Perhaps DD's greatest failing is not his consistent habit of basing reviews on live distros (many people wouldn't mind that) but rather his persistent refusal to accept or apparently understand -- let alone acknowledge or point out -- that reviews based on live distros have some inherent and relevant, significant limitations (DD, I hope that you are reading this). It certainly rubs a lot of LXers the wrong way. PS: DarkDuck also seems a little too ready to accept distinctly substandard submissions from other posters, and some of that inevitably rubs off/gets blamed on him. |
| CFWhitman Sep 04, 2012 12:27 PM EDT |
Incidentally, LMDE isn't considered ready for the novice Linux user. It's aimed at more experienced and knowledgeable users (and indeed, it's one of my favorite distributions). I believe there are really four versions of Ubuntu based Mint now including the newest KDE and Xfce editions. There really may be a dilemma for new users at this point. I do agree though, that evaluating the live versions of distributions isn't the same as evaluating the default installation of a distribution (even when you use a live USB version). It's not a proper review if you didn't even install it. |
| Steven_Rosenber Sep 04, 2012 6:21 PM EDT |
We've been through this before. While I don't consider a live-image test a full review, it does tell you something. |
| Fettoosh Sep 04, 2012 6:41 PM EDT |
Quoting:We've been through this before. Yes we have and multiple times too. With so many different Distros, it would be very tedious to install each release of each Distro on hard disk just to have a quick and brief look at each one. Using a Live USB is good enough for that, but no way sufficient for good detailed evaluation. |
| BernardSwiss Sep 04, 2012 7:07 PM EDT |
The problem isn't reviewing live-distros, per se, but refusing to recognize or acknowledge the inherent limitations this approach puts on what can be legitimately concluded, nor including any caveats to that effect. |
| darkduck Sep 05, 2012 4:39 AM EDT |
Quoting:The problem isn't reviewing live-distros, per se, but refusing to recognize or acknowledge the inherent limitations this approach puts on what can be legitimately concluded, nor including any caveats to that effect.Do you think I don't know the caveats? Silly you! But will it make sense to put these caveats in each and every post? I don't think so. If you do, please feel free to become an editor of my posts: I'll allow you to add these caveats to my text before they are published. Will you take this task? If not, just shut up! |
| montezuma Sep 05, 2012 8:19 AM EDT |
Come on DarkDuck show a bit more professionalism. Linux fora are notorious for sharp and nasty comments. Just look at Linus's comments. You need to take on board legitimate criticism and develop a thick skin for that which you think unfair. It is your responsibility to include caveats in a review. |
| Fettoosh Sep 05, 2012 9:58 AM EDT |
I used to just click on the title to visit a page. With this attitude from DarkDuck, I developed a new habit of checking the source and "Posted by" before I click. |
| jdixon Sep 05, 2012 10:28 AM EDT |
> I developed a new habit of checking the source and "Posted by" before I click. Ken Hess did that for me. His articles seem to have been less frequent of late though. And I'll take a darkduck article over a Ken Hess article any day. |
| Koriel Sep 05, 2012 6:26 PM EDT |
Actually I prefer Ken Hess posts, true some of his stuff was really out there in some cases an entirely separate reality but they often made me giggle anyways. Come back Ken all is forgiven, well at least by me as DD make's you look good. |
| caitlyn Sep 06, 2012 12:52 AM EDT |
Quoting:Come back Ken all is forgiven, well at least by me as DD make's you look good.As someone who often crossed swords with Ken Hess I must say, Koriel, I agree. |
| Jeff91 Sep 06, 2012 10:32 AM EDT |
+1 Koriel ~Jeff |
| Steven_Rosenber Sep 06, 2012 12:22 PM EDT |
I learned a long time ago that if you want to be universally loved, writing on the Internet isn't for you. There are all kinds of distro reviews out there. Ironically -- in the light of this thread anyway -- I remember seeing a lot more "I ran the live CD for a half-hour and this is what I found out" articles a couple of years ago. I wrote a few of them myself. You do get look, if not feel. You get basic hardware compatibility and can test a few apps. It's not like torture-testing a distribution by actually using it for a month. (I should probably write a formal Debian Wheezy review, since I've been beating on it for a month+ now. Fortunately or not, I'm doing the same with Windows 7.) Everybody expects certain things out of a review. I write what I can. If I make it too hard, often I'll never do it. In my particular circumstance, I need to be excited about it, or it'll just sit. It's better to write what you're compelled to write. Especially if you're doing it for free. You really have to plan for a long review. My seven-part DragonFlyBSD review http://blogs.dailynews.com/click/2012/04/the-longest-dragonf... took well over a month (while I was doing many, many other things; I have a day job, you know) of constant installs and testing, notetaking and then writing. I still installed on only a single computer. It's better to have multiple machines at your disposal and install to all of them. Even so, a single-machine review remains valuable. I agree that a live CD-only review isn't terribly valuable in comparison to an actual installation. Consider it a review "genre," if you will. |
| caitlyn Sep 12, 2012 11:24 PM EDT |
Quoting:I learned a long time ago that if you want to be universally loved, writing on the Internet isn't for you.You are a master of understatement. I published something about a government agency considering Linux on the desktop (they already have thin clients) and I received more derision and outright insults than Carter has little pills. Perhaps one day I'll share the four comments I didn't let through moderation. They are pretty amazing. The funny thing is that those who are sure I'm a clueless fan are ignoring the fact that I am sharing my real life work experience. Oh, and I landed the contract with that government agency. If you criticize a distro the fans of that distro will often we ready with pitchforks, tar and feathers, or worse. Quoting:I remember seeing a lot more "I ran the live CD for a half-hour and this is what I found out" articles a couple of years ago. I wrote a few of them myself. You do get look, if not feel. You get basic hardware compatibility and can test a few apps.I think you know that you are a writer I greatly respect and your opinion carries a lot of weight with me. Having said that I find little or no value in such articles. In addition, the DarkDuck reviews don't focus on what separates distros or what's important to most people in a distro. It isn't just that he did a live CD review (which renders it almost valueless in my book) but he focused on things like the color of an icon or the theme used, things which even most beginners with Linux can change readily. (Edited due to massive cut-and-paste fail on my part.) |
| Steven_Rosenber Sep 13, 2012 4:49 PM EDT |
I guess I should clarify that it's pretty clear that many readers don't like live-CD reviews of installable distros and would rather see a full review that includes an install (or installs plural) and some substantial time actually running the system. I have certainly taken this criticism to heart and have both done fewer of these kinds of pieces and been conscious not to label them "review," as that can be misleading. H#ll, if it was traffic I was after, I'd only write about Ubuntu ... |
| gus3 Sep 13, 2012 5:54 PM EDT |
@Steven, my articles about Raspbian have more than doubled my daily traffic. |
| kikinovak Sep 14, 2012 9:00 AM EDT |
There used to be a time when readers nearly had the technical level of online HOWTOs. Nowadays authors of online HOWTOs seem to have the technical level of their readers :o) |
| Steven_Rosenber Sep 14, 2012 12:08 PM EDT |
I'm still trying to figure this one out. |
| andyprough Sep 15, 2012 11:40 AM EDT |
@montezuma - "Come on DarkDuck show a bit more professionalism. Linux fora are notorious for sharp and nasty comments. Just look at Linus's comments. You need to take on board legitimate criticism and develop a thick skin for that which you think unfair." ====================================== DarkDuck is a Russian living in London, trying to write reviews in English. You should try writing reviews in Russian and see how well that works for you. He's a young and very talented ERP systems programmer -- exactly the type of person that Linux distro communities should be trying to appeal to. Spewing vitriol at young programmers, like @cmost with the multiple "moron" blasts, is complete nonsense in any setting. Just because the "dear and glorious" leader Torvalds gladly tells volunteer coders that their work is "crap" and that they should "just kill themselves" does not mean that sane, reasonable people should adopt his attitude toward others. At the end of the day, he's just a skilled hacker with a potty-mouth. Mint fan-boys and fan-girls should learn to make adult, reasoned arguments as to why their distro of choice is worth a closer look, rather than resorting to juvenile name-calling. Episodes like this make it FAR less likely that I'll give Mint a spin in the future - as these comments are probably indicative of the type of "support" I should expect on the Mint forums. For years now, I've been used to the openSUSE forums, which are almost always a place for civil discussion - except on those few days when Linus dropped by to flame everyone in sight and recommend mass-suicide because he couldn't figure out how to connect his daughter's laptop to her middle school's networked printer. |
| montezuma Sep 15, 2012 12:52 PM EDT |
@andyprough The reality is that most internet exchanges can have a sharp edge to them. Is that optimal? No it isn't but it is the reality. I think anyone engaging in an online community needs to take that reality into account and stop taking things so personally. Sometimes the criticism is warranted sometimes its just some dude blowing smoke out of their rear end. You need to just discard the bs and look for valid feedback (which does exist). As to being a Mint fanboy... LOLOLOLOL Incidentally the mint online fora are pretty friendly and helpful overall. I've never been abused. BTW how come you know so much about DarkDuck? Are you a friend of his or are you actually Darkduck in disguise ;-) |
| penguinist Sep 15, 2012 12:56 PM EDT |
@andyprough Well said. Abusive and hateful posts have no place on LXer. |
| andyprough Sep 15, 2012 2:31 PM EDT |
@montezuma - I read his "About Me" page on his blog, and I've followed his blog for a long time. He's a good guy - we should really try to support people from other parts of the world that are trying to communicate about Linux in our language. |
| montezuma Sep 15, 2012 6:57 PM EDT |
@andyprough I think it is perfectly valid to criticize a superficial/limited blog post. After all the blogs could be criticized for precisely the same thing: Being overly negative. The point is whether the criticism (of the review or the original review itself) has any validity or not. |
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