How does this help?
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| smallboxadmin Jul 25, 2012 1:19 AM EDT |
With the misinformation and nonsense, how does this help Linux?Quoting:Finding Linus Torvalds' or Richard Stallman's email is not difficult, and, although the average user may not expect to talk directly to Jim Whitehurst, the CEO of Red Hat, they do expect that someone at Red Hat and similar corporations will listen to their feedback. When does the average user need to contact any of these people? It's just as likely that Linus would answer my questions on Ubuntu as would Steve would on Windows 7. The assumption here is that Red Hat listens to its customers but Microsoft doesn't. Pure nonsense. Quoting:If users are loyal to an application, it’s because they like it -- not because they are locked in to whatever a manufacturer chooses to give them. So, Windows users only use applications that a manufacturer gives them? There are many ISV's for the Windows environment, and they compete for customers. Wonder of all wonders, some actually serve the same markets. Quoting:When Windows users agree to the license, they agree (among other things) to Microsoft automatically updating the system... Wrong! Automatic updates are optional in Windows, one of the first questions asked during install, and you have the ability to automatically update Linux. Using MS tools you can choose which updates are deployed and when to deploy them. Quoting:But Linux has a long history of fostering a do-it-yourself attitude. Again, the assumption is Windows users are a bunch of brain dead know nothings. There are plenty of Windows forums and e-mail lists. Some even more helpful and less sarcastic than Linux groups. Quoting:...Linux's BASH shell is far more powerful and easier to use than anything found on Windows. A debatable statement. I think the author is living in 1995. Quoting:They {Windows users} are used to thinking that they can do little to influence the manufacturers of their software, and to ceding their rights to do very ordinary things to the manufacturers. Windows Vista was such a failure that MS was forced to extend support of Windows XP. I'd say that was a big influence on MS and the much improved Windows 7 was the result. Early grumbling about Windows 8 will hopefully force MS to make some changes to the interface. The author is also implying MS is the source of all applications on Windows. There are tons of ISV's and open source projects for Windows. Bundling them all into a single group is just wrong. Such misinformation will not make Windows users take articles like this very seriously. With friends like this, who needs enemies? |
| jdixon Jul 25, 2012 9:20 AM EDT |
> It's just as likely that Linus would answer my questions on Ubuntu as would Steve would on Windows 7. Why would Linus answer a question about Ubuntu? AFAIK, he doesn't use it. The Linux kernel on the other hand, he very well might, if you asked it on the appropriate mailing list. I've emailed one or two applications developers with questions before. They've usually responded. > Wrong! Automatic updates are optional in Windows. Correct. Sort of. :) In actuality, Windows has a habit of resetting your automatic updates setting at seemingly random intervals, and may start downloading and even installing updates without telling you the settings have changed. :( So while you can set Windows to not check for, download, or install updates; don't count on the settings actually working. |
| jacog Jul 25, 2012 9:44 AM EDT |
"Why would Linus answer a question about Ubuntu?" - I think you missed his point, jdixon |
| helios Jul 25, 2012 10:20 AM EDT |
So while you can set Windows to not check for, download, or install updates; don't count on the settings actually working. This has become past infuriating....and it's more the norm than the occasional "oops, we made poopie on your update choices". I do know for a fact that if you have Microsoft Security Essentials installed, it WILL trigger the change as a secondary way to make sure WGA is installed and functional on your computer. Friggin' pukes. |
| notbob Jul 25, 2012 10:43 AM EDT |
It's not supposed to help Linux, it's merely an opinion, much like some of yer misleading statements. "When does the average user need to contact any of these people?" I don't know if I need it, but I certainly have it. I speak directly to several Slackware developers who also have Pat Volkerding's ear. "Again, the assumption is Windows users are a bunch of brain dead know nothings." This no doubt the accepted assumption cuz it's so often true. I know for a fact Windows users need not be know-nothings, but most choose to be. With respect to BASH.... "A debatable statement. I think the author is living in 1995." So, why is Window 8 implementing a new updated DOS shell? As for living in 1995, I could do worse. It was an excellent year for me. Linux users DO expect more cuz, in the end, they CAN do more. Can I make my own version of Windows? Of course not. Can Linux users? With boring regularity. Should those who are content with Windows care? Not in the least. If Windows is enough for them, fine by me. Bottom line, it's all about choice, which is based on one's own opinion. The article is jes one man's opinion. |
| smallboxadmin Jul 25, 2012 11:34 AM EDT |
Quoting:This no doubt the accepted assumption cuz it's so often true. I know for a fact Windows users need not be know-nothings, but most choose to be. This is just plain silly and in the vein of the author. Quoting:So, why is Window 8 implementing a new updated DOS shell? Powershell has been around for a while and is not an updated DOS shell, again, nonsense. Quoting:So while you can set Windows to not check for, download, or install updates; don't count on the settings actually working. On the enterprise side with Group Policy, WSUS or System Center, this works fine. The bottom line is, I support Windows, Linux and OS X, and articles like this do nothing to help Linux, opinion article or not. |
| tuxchick Jul 25, 2012 11:45 AM EDT |
Powershell is a sad, pale imitation of any Linux command shell. Lockin and not happy customers making a conscious choice is exactly the reason the Windows ecosystem is so entrenched, Microsoft's real customers are not the end users and so end users have no influence, and expecting users to develop some expertise really isn't a far-out notion; it's one of the factors that make Linux and free software strong. I don't understand why you're so down on this article as it's right on. |
| smallboxadmin Jul 25, 2012 12:12 PM EDT |
Quoting:Powershell is a sad, pale imitation of any Linux command shell. Actually, what I said was, "Powershell has been around for a while and is not an updated DOS shell..." I didn't say it was better or worse than BASH. Quoting:I don't understand why you're so down on this article as it's right on. Because it takes on the same tired old BS I've heard for years. Windows users are idiots. Windows can't do A, B, or C, when in fact it can. Microsoft doesn't listen to it's customers. Which you kind of prove my point, in that you say end users are not MS's customers, the decision makers are, and that's who they listen to. I'm sure the same could be said of Red Hat, Suse and possibly Ubuntu, hence why there are distros like Linux Mint. The Linux community is so much better than the Windows community. Some of the smartest tech people I know run or have to run Windows. I generally find the Windows forums and e-mail lists are much more friendly and willing to help than the standard RTFM logic of Linux forums. Why do I run Linux? Not because of the above. Because it works, it's stable, it's easy to manage, it's virus free and it is secure. I tell customers to put in a Linux server instead of Windows and worst case if it doesn't work, we buy Windows. Zero changes so far because it's transparent and it works without the customer even knowing the difference, other than cost and uptime. I'm lucky in that I do have a say and decide to run Linux in most cases. There are applications or services that we need that only run on Windows, so that is the only choice. That article could have been written 10 years ago. Has nothing changed since then? |
| theBeez Jul 25, 2012 12:24 PM EDT |
@smallboxadmin
"Because it takes on the same tired old BS I've heard for years."
Wow, as if that never happened to us Linux users. I've written long, hard posts on that one. Which comes around goes around. No pity on that one. Remember SOFUD on "you have to work on the commandline" on Linux when most users were running KDE? I think only Compiz killed that rumour. "Some of the smartest tech people I know run or have to run Windows." In a box, in snapshotting mode, for the kids to play games. Where it can't do any harm. Behind a firewall so it can't phone home and send all my data to Redmond because that's what I agreed to in the EULA. "Microsoft doesn't listen to it's customers. <snip> end users are not MS's customers." Any idea how ridiculous that sounds? "I generally find the Windows forums and e-mail lists are much more friendly and willing to help than the standard RTFM logic of Linux forums." Anyone has right to his/her opinion. Opinions are like noses, everybody has one. I do. I don't agree with you. Period. How does that help the discussion? "Because it works, it's stable, it's easy to manage, it's virus free and it is secure." That why I switched from Windows to Linux in the last century. As a matter of fact, NOTHING works on Windows as I experience every day (see: http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.nl/2010/09/real-life-windows-x...). I think it's because more about SELLING software than MAKING software, that's the problem. .. but what is your point??? Or are you just a "technical evangelist"? |
| tuxchick Jul 25, 2012 12:29 PM EDT |
You're arguing things that are not in the article, and twisting what it actually says. |
| jdixon Jul 25, 2012 12:42 PM EDT |
> Powershell has been around for a while... Yes. But not since "1995". I let it pass the first time, but... > On the enterprise side with Group Policy, WSUS or System Center, this works fine. I don't believe the author was primarily discussing enterprise users. And you certainly didn't limit your comments to them. > The Linux community is so much better than the Windows community. Some of the smartest tech people I know run or have to run Windows. The smartest tech people I know run both, and use each when it's appropriate. > I generally find the Windows forums and e-mail lists are much more friendly and willing to help than the standard RTFM logic of Linux forums. Whereas I've seen little difference. > That article could have been written 10 years ago. Has nothing changed since then? Honestly? Things haven't changed that much. Windows is still as entrenched as ever, for pretty much the same reasons as always. The only real difference is that Linux is now recognized as a valid option by pretty much everyone, even folks like Gartner. |
| smallboxadmin Jul 25, 2012 2:05 PM EDT |
Quoting:The only real difference is that Linux is now recognized as a valid option by pretty much everyone, even folks like Gartner. Which is the major difference and pretty much the point. All I'm saying is theat the article says nothing new and as an argument for using Linux it's pretty stale and not very original. ...and that's all the input I have. |
| jdixon Jul 25, 2012 2:22 PM EDT |
> ...and as an argument for using Linux it's pretty stale and not very original. What gave you the impression it was an argument for using Linux? It was commentary about Linux users. |
| tracyanne Jul 25, 2012 5:44 PM EDT |
@smallboxadmin, so I'm guessing that your problem with the article is that it says nothing new or original. |
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