Deal with the Devil
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| JaseP May 01, 2012 10:39 AM EDT |
Well, B&N took a buyout rather than finish the litigation... No surprises, but disappointing. I'd have liked to have seen them press forward and invalidate some more of MS's bogus patents. |
| montezuma May 01, 2012 11:01 AM EDT |
Another Ballmer cash down the toilet plan. He has made a speciality of riding products that are less successful copies of innovations in the misguided hope of using MS muscle to displace the innovator.
The prime example being Bing and the last big one the Nokia deal to compete with iphone. Losing strategy by the look of it. |
| tuxchick May 01, 2012 11:26 AM EDT |
But sadly, montezuma, Ballmer takes down good companies and products too. Nokia's toast, and this won't do the Nook any favors. MS is incapable of making good products, so they're relying on protection rackets. Which are paying off handsomely. |
| montezuma May 01, 2012 11:30 AM EDT |
True tc. I guess longer term however if Winblows 8 bellyflops Ballmer's shareholders are going to get very nervous since that (and Office) are the major cash cows. Frankly I think he should have been sacked five years ago but then in a way watching M$ fade away under incompetent management is rather satisfying. |
| Bob_Robertson May 01, 2012 12:07 PM EDT |
It will be interesting to see what kind of special proprietary book format (for security of course) the Nook will get. |
| gus3 May 01, 2012 1:04 PM EDT |
Since Ballmer took over, Microsoft can't win. They can only hope to make others lose. |
| lxerguest May 01, 2012 1:11 PM EDT |
It's like the glory days of the Standard Oil monopoly.Try to stand up to them and they will destroy you,remove your ability to make a living in that business.But they first make you an offer to join their team.And you accept,and prosper by contributing your talents to their expanding empire. |
| jdixon May 01, 2012 1:18 PM EDT |
> .And you accept,and prosper by contributing your talents to their expanding empire. Except it's never worked that way with Microsoft. History is riddled with the bodies of their former partners. |
| flufferbeer May 01, 2012 1:23 PM EDT |
@lxerguest, Miacro$ucks probably even took its EEE playbook from the Standard Oil monopoly's. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish !! 2c |
| gus3 May 01, 2012 1:27 PM EDT |
Thus, the EEE PC. |
| Bob_Robertson May 01, 2012 2:14 PM EDT |
Standard Oil never was the demon people paint it to be. Prices dropped so much that Whale oil was no longer profitable to harvest, for example. John D. Rockefeller, savior of the whales. When Microsoft reaches 10% market share, like Standard Oil had when they were broken up, I'd be very happy to see it. No breakup needed at that point. Just competition. |
| montezuma May 01, 2012 3:06 PM EDT |
Actually John D. Rockefeller ("America's most hated man" so it says at his mansion in Phillipsburg Manor NY) bears somewhat of a resemblance to Ballmer. Check this horrendous photo out: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USArockefeller.htm |
| Bob_Robertson May 01, 2012 3:22 PM EDT |
Monte, you'll never hear me say he was _nice_. He was a ruthless b*****d who relentlessly drove down costs by increasing efficiency and eliminating waste. His competition went out of business mostly because they couldn't match his ability to make products out of what used to be dumped, like gasoline, asphalt, and the light volatiles that we use today as solvents and such. The real winner was the consumer, who had more that cost less continually. But ruthless people are rarely loved, no matter what they do. I try to judge people on what they do, rather than what people say they do. Microsoft's success due to preinstallation I do not begrudge them one bit. But obfuscating their OS so that other people's products don't run correctly, that's just nasty. For that, Microsoft deserves to fail. |
| montezuma May 01, 2012 3:38 PM EDT |
I think a comparison of the business practises and economic effects of Microsoft and Standard Oil would make for an extremely interesting, very long and probably highly fractious political discussion which would violate the TOS of Lxer so I will desist. On a personal level I am surprised Bob that you constantly challenge these TOS. Linux fans have a very wide cross section of political views and expressing strident views will always cause trouble hence the TOS. This is meant to be a friendly response btw by someone who does not share your political views. |
| caitlyn May 01, 2012 3:44 PM EDT |
What montezuma said. Some people just like to push the envelope. |
| Bob_Robertson May 01, 2012 4:02 PM EDT |
This is history, not politics. That it gets labeled politics because some people don't like it is what causes friction. |
| lxerguest May 01, 2012 4:03 PM EDT |
@jdixon:true,it worked out bad for most them in the long run.In the short run they took the millions and prospered in that way. @montezuma:well put.I would also dispute bobrobertson's summary,but I understand that his libertarian philosophy (which I'm not unsympathetic to) may hinge on monopolies being a nonthreat,and I wouldn't want to start that political firestorm here! |
| Bob_Robertson May 01, 2012 4:18 PM EDT |
LxGuest, nonono, please. I agree completely that a monopoly is a destructive thing. This has nothing to do with "libertarian philosophy". My disagreement is that 10% of a market constitutes a "monopoly", or that market domination by a firm that continually innovates and thus out competes the other players is anything like a "monopoly" at all. The economic definition of "monopoly" is the ability to charge higher prices through restriction of competition. The legal definition depends on who is asked, and when. My salute to the successes of Standard Oil match my salute to the successes of Microsoft. So also {insert} do I condemn {/insert} any depredations SO or MS reap(ed). What, please tell me so I can not do it again, does ANY of this have to do with politics? Edit: I realized later my error was in saying anything good about Standard Oil. Doing so has been perceived as "political", since it is generally accepted that no one would have said anything good about Standard Oil otherwise. I long for the day when truth is more important than ideology. |
| montezuma May 01, 2012 4:51 PM EDT |
Bob, The interpretation of history is greatly coloured by political perspective. Surely you realise that. That does not make it uninteresting (far from it). It does however make it a flammable topic for Lxer where people have very different political outlooks. I bet for example that the two of us have very different narratives concerning the Great Depression and its causes. Untangling fact and fiction and interpretation in history is a very worthwhile endeavour but without fail it will cause a heated political discussion. I enjoy such discussions when people are listening to each other at least. Seems like however it is not appropriate for this forum. There are plenty where it is however..... |
| Bob_Robertson May 01, 2012 4:58 PM EDT |
Then I'll just have to continue as always, waiting for Caitlyn to decide what is or isn't political. She says my talking about Standard Oil is, so my talking about Standard Oil is out. Oh well. |
| lxerguest May 01, 2012 5:18 PM EDT |
Bob,you are saying that MS and SO are not using their monopoly (the lazy term I use for "dominant market position") to further that monopoly?So removing rebates from OEM's who don't sell a sufficient proportion of Windows machines,or disallowing pre-installed dual-boot,or fast-tracking their bogus office format with standards bodies to undermine the new ODT standard and preserve their office monopoly,or dumping cheap licenses into the netbook/education/developing nations markets where Linux would need to try to start to build a critical mass,or using market share to push proprietary standards on the web or hardware,or literally buying share through hundreds of millions transferred to Nokia/Yahoo/etc,or dumping billions into ecosytem products like gaming hardware with ability to sustain losses until market domination is achieved,or dumping products like browser or videoplayer to kill software companies who might support other OS or even consider producing an OS themselves,or pricing OS arbitrarily high because they are the only PC OS being sold and hence receiving a tax-like revenue on virtually every pc so as to finance hiring of the most expensive talent and financing dirty-tricks/patent attacks/gifting/social engineering/r&d, are ALL nothing to do with their monopoly,and hence not threatening? |
| tracyanne May 01, 2012 5:40 PM EDT |
@lxerguest, all that in one breath, I'm impressed. |
| Bob_Robertson May 01, 2012 5:44 PM EDT |
LXerGuest, "you are saying that MS and SO are not using their monopoly (the lazy term I use for "dominant market position") to further that monopoly?" I said no such thing. "...are ALL nothing to do with their monopoly,and hence not threatening?" This is what I said: "My disagreement is that 10% of a market constitutes a "monopoly", or that market domination by a firm that continually innovates and thus out competes the other players is anything like a "monopoly" at all." I also said: "My salute to the successes of Standard Oil match my salute to the successes of Microsoft. So also to any depredations SO or MS reap(ed)." I see the problem, and will correct it in the original. I condemn their depredations just as much as I salute their successes. |
| lxerguest May 01, 2012 5:56 PM EDT |
@tracyanne,heh heh,I think it's because it all wells up at once like a bad flashback. @bob_robertson,cool,I know what you said,but I'm curious if you agree or not with my (long) question? |
| lxerguest May 01, 2012 6:04 PM EDT |
Sorry,that should be:I understand you are not attributing all their success to their innovation in the marketplace,but do you agree that their market dominance has given them an unfair advantage,which they have been able to abuse,in the ways I mentioned,among others? |
| Bob_Robertson May 02, 2012 8:54 AM EDT |
I'll reply in direct message, since positive statements about S.O. have been declared political. |
| Khamul May 02, 2012 11:45 AM EDT |
Don't say anything positive about the Roman Empire either; that might be considered political. |
| dinotrac May 02, 2012 12:09 PM EDT |
Nook a mediocre product? Like hell. Nooks are awfully nice for what they do. Nicer than Kindles, depending on your needs. |
| lxerguest May 02, 2012 12:25 PM EDT |
@bob_robertson,no just answer here on the MS issue since it's Linux-related,and I don't feel like digging up my old Standard Oil docs! |
| Bob_Robertson May 02, 2012 12:53 PM EDT |
I'm sorry, LG. Since your question pivots on the idea of "unfair advantage", I cannot answer you publicly. |
| lxerguest May 02, 2012 1:10 PM EDT |
Bob,my you are an ornery one.How about:game called on account of darkness?! |
| jdixon May 02, 2012 1:18 PM EDT |
> Bob,my you are an ornery one. As a notable song once said: Once bitten twice shy. He has his reasons. |
| gus3 May 02, 2012 3:53 PM EDT |
Quoting:game called on account of the Prince of Darkness?!FTFY. |
| Bob_Robertson May 02, 2012 4:25 PM EDT |
"Prince of Darkness" Good movie. |
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