Should Be Retroactive ....
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Fettoosh Feb 09, 2012 10:26 AM EDT |
and both MS & all their OEMs should be penalized for scamming the consumers for so long, or at least for the period the law has been in effect. It is only fair. |
| tracyanne Feb 09, 2012 5:52 PM EDT |
little steps |
| JaseP Feb 09, 2012 7:10 PM EDT |
Well what about US cable TV companies, that are lobbying the US FCC to abandon the requirement to broadcast, unencrypted, their basic services in Clear QAM?!?! They're trying to force the adoption of cable cards. That'll throw the old monkey wrench in about $600 of TV tuning equipment that I've bought. There's scamming going on all over. MS, I expect it from. Not being able to have TV, or use my own system, without a "Gee-Dee" rented set top box?!?! Ridiculous!!! |
| Khamul Feb 09, 2012 7:51 PM EDT |
Personally, I don't have a problem with them requiring cable cards or cable boxes. Cable TV is a luxury, just like owning a Ferrari or a yacht, and just like those, the prices for cable TV are obscene. If you can afford $150/month for TV, then $600 for TV equipment really isn't that much. Besides, anything worth watching is available online, either on Netflix or Hulu(/Plus), or on Bittorrent. For live TV, rabbit ears work just fine, like they have for decades. |
| gus3 Feb 09, 2012 8:10 PM EDT |
@Khamul: But requiring a box for *broadcast*? |
| BernardSwiss Feb 09, 2012 8:24 PM EDT |
The problem is, most people are already indoctrinated into thinking that the arbitrary restrictions big corporations engineer into technological products are perfectly reasonable, as after all the corporation is in it for the money. Just lately I've had the experience of seeing peoples' reactions, when I relate the tale of trying to get the telco to give me the unlock code for an old phone. This phone used to be a relative's, the contract was paid off a couple of years ago, but to make a long story made short; "Too bad, so sad; $50 or screw you" -- even if I have the original owner take care of it. The phone itself ain't worth $50, today. When I complain about this, most people clearly don't get why I'm complaining. Some of them are clearly resisting the urge to roll their eyes at MY naivete (some aren't quite succeeding -- some aren't even hiding it). If I point out some comparative facts about cell-phone service in India or Kenya, a few will actually find that somewhat interesting, but most will still shrug and accept such abuse as inevitable and acceptable. How did we get to this point? And why do people seem so willing to put up with it? |
| jdixon Feb 09, 2012 8:47 PM EDT |
> And why do people seem so willing to put up with it? I wish I knew. It would be another matter if the services were free, but you're paying through the nose for them. The least you could do is demand quality service for the money. Cable TV long ago priced itself out of my willingness to pay for it, followed not to long thereafter by satellite TV. I don't see either changing any time soon. Cell phone service has never been at what I consider an acceptable price point. If my company didn't provide me with a cell phone, I doubt I'd have one. |
| Fettoosh Feb 09, 2012 9:13 PM EDT |
Quoting:How did we get to this point? And why do people seem so willing to put up with it? Not so hard, how about "hooked & addicted"? |
| BernardSwiss Feb 09, 2012 9:23 PM EDT |
Quoting:Not so hard, how about "hooked & addicted"? Well, that would explain why people put up with it. But why are they so complacent and willing to accept being blatantly ripped off -- and in a supposedly competitive, free market? |
| Khamul Feb 09, 2012 9:42 PM EDT |
At least cellphone service providers provide you with a useful service: mobile communications. I know my wife wouldn't like it if she couldn't reach me when either of us were out, in case something important came up. Emergencies happen. But cable and satellite TV? There's almost nothing useful there, just some mindless entertainment, and not even very good entertainment at that. I'm not saying that all TV and movies are garbage, but as I said before, Netflix and Hulu are easily available online, and they're dirt cheap. Instead of paying $100-150/month for a bunch of cr@ppy channels filled with commercials, you can pay $8/month and watch all the movies you want on Netflix. And another $8/month for all the very latest TV shows on Hulu. And neither of these has any commercials (I know for sure on Netflix; not quite sure on HuluPlus). So why would anyone spend so much more money on something that bombards you with loud commercials, and you can't even pause and rewind (or, you can pay an additional monthly fee for a cr@ppy DVR box to do this for you)? AFAIC, cable/satellite TV makes about as much sense these days as landlines, assuming you live in an area with high-speed internet access and cellular coverage. In both cases, the older technology is just as expensive, or dramatically much more, than the competing newer technology, plus not as convenient or easy to use. The problem with being ripped off, however, is mostly an American phenomenon from what I see, because people in other countries (namely European, but also many third-world) get far better service at much cheaper rates for things than we do, both cellular service and HSI. I'd say this is probably caused by massive corruption in our government and lack of proper regulation (or bad regulation that supports monopolies and incumbents, instead of promoting competition). Europeans, for instance, seem to have many more cellular providers to choose from than we do; more providers means more competition. We just narrowly avoided narrowing our field to only 3 with the failed AT&T/T-Mobile merger, so we only have 4 right now. |
| 4ebees Feb 09, 2012 10:55 PM EDT |
@ Bernard Swiss "Just lately I've had the experience of seeing peoples' reactions, when I relate the tale of trying to get the telco to give me the unlock code for an old phone." In Australia I rang my phone company to get them to unlock my phone (company is called Three). Took two minutes, no questions, no cost. I'd only bought the phone through them four months earlier. I'd unlocked an older phone about six months before. Same thing - no questions, no cost. I agree with you that people fail to see that unreasonable practices are unreasonable and care little for the discussion...until it hits them and then they complain loudly. |
| 4ebees Feb 09, 2012 11:01 PM EDT |
@Khamul. "The problem with being ripped off, however, is mostly an American phenomenon from what I see" In part this seems to be the case, but don't over estimate the rest of the world :)) nor underestimate the US :) "...I'd say this is probably caused by...lack of proper regulation (or bad regulation that supports monopolies and incumbents, instead of promoting competition)..." If you look at the way that US governments are elected (small actual number of people who vote) and the massive amounts of money that is used to sponsor companies, along with this idea that regulation is bad for competition (when in fact it is one of the few things that enforces it) you can see how many US companies get away with an awful lot of greedy, grasping, thieving and pilfering from the public pocket both directly (overcharging, underservicing) and indirectly (massive tax bias towards companies which is, in effect welfare, for the capitalists). That said, I often look to the US (resistors, critics, community action groups and lobby groups) for those instance where they are able to make positive changes and force movement in the right direction. |
| Fettoosh Feb 09, 2012 11:28 PM EDT |
Quoting:...I'd say this is probably caused by...lack of proper regulation (or bad regulation that supports monopolies and incumbents, instead of promoting competition)... Actually, it is more the American Consumer psyche than anything else. Most American consumers - Are very trusting and believe everything or anything (Ads, commercials) - don't like to appear as complainers - Like to have what others have - Likes to keep appearances - Unhappy and buying gadgets compensates for the unhappiness - ... etc. |
| caitlyn Feb 10, 2012 1:39 AM EDT |
@gus3: Broadcast is a misnomer here. This only applies to cable and, perhaps, to satellite providers. Broadcast stations can still be received over the air just fine and would be no matter what the FCC decides. I use a broadcast antenna + streaming from the net and can't ever see paying the high price for cable again. I'd get little or no added value for doing so. |
| gus3 Feb 10, 2012 7:24 AM EDT |
@caitlyn, re-read JaseP's comment. Broadcast encryption is exactly what he's talking about. |
| JaseP Feb 10, 2012 10:35 AM EDT |
But Gus,... It goes beyond that... Currently, I've got two HDhomerun units with 2 Clear QAM tuners each, basic cable, and a DIFFERENT cable company for Internet. I dumped the first cable company for TV when they got a waiver from the FCC to allow this very sort of thing. But the other cable company didn't have broadband in my area, and there were no reasonable alternatives (trust me, I looked). So, I have 2 cable companies, one for Internet & phone, another for TV. I've spent $1000s on a multimedia/home automation system of which the tuners are one part. I might be able to do a work around,... putting cable boxes (strike that, SATELLITE boxes, if I have to have boxes) in my server closet and see if I can send coaxial digital output to the HDhomeruns to use their (then crippled) streaming capabilities. I'd have to change channels with an IR repeater rig (hoping that IR signals to one box wouldn't screw up the other). And, all of this assumes I can even get a TV tuner box to output to digital coaxial (most are probably HDMI only affairs). HDMI output closes out any chance of capturing the input over to the system (with any legally acquired equipment, anyway). Combine this with my family's viewing mode. I watch SciFy, BBC America, one Cartoon Network show with the kids & some broadcast TV. The wife watches mostly broadcast TV. The kids live & die on the Disney Channel 1, 2 & 3, Toon, Nickelodeon, PBS & occasional broadcast. Me and the kids can get our Star Wars the Clone Wars fix straight from StarWars.com. The wife could pick up most of her shows over broadcast. I can get one of my shows via broadcast and/or Hulu. But for the Kids' cartoons (Spongebob, Fineas & Ferb, Adventure Time ***blech***, etc.), or my Dr. Who/Top Gear or Being Human (US version), I'm pretty much SOL without some form of digital &/or analog TV. And, forget about integrating DVR functionality in the system, or controlling TV effectively through the system. I'm then stuck with a slap-dash assortment of consumer systems that I'd pay through the nose for. This is the kind of vendor lock-in we hate with our computers, as open source users. It's the kind of gov't intrusion we rallied against with SOPA/PIPA. For me, it impacts both. This is the exact kind of thing that the internet community should rally against like with SOPA/PIPA. |
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