Unity all the way
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Khamul Feb 04, 2012 1:23 AM EDT |
They'll probably only include Unity, and tell enterprise customers that's what they need to use, because it's The One True Way and that they know better than their customers. They'll also include the new HUD, even though it's brand-new. Hopefully enterprise customers will get a clue and switch to Linux Mint. |
| tracyanne Feb 04, 2012 2:21 AM EDT |
With the exception of the actual UI, there WILL be as much GNOME 3.4 in Ubuntu 12.04, with Unity, as there is in any GNOME 3 Shell (or even GNOME 3 Panel) based desktop. the Unity UI is a compiz-Fusion shell running on top of GNOME 3.x. Which makes it impossible for there not to be a significant GNOME 3.x.x component to Ubuntu 12.04, 12.10, 13.04 etc and etc. And Unity can't and won't work without GNOME 3.x.x So the article is silly. |
| Khamul Feb 04, 2012 2:29 AM EDT |
Maybe they'll modify their Gnome 3.x base packages so that only Unity will run on it, since they're obviously convinced that they know what's best for everyone and that we all need a cellphone-esque UI on our desktop machines (of course, the exact same can be said of the Gnome devs). |
| tracyanne Feb 04, 2012 3:24 AM EDT |
Probably not, that's extra work, and not worth the effort or the complaints. |
| kennethh Feb 04, 2012 2:27 PM EDT |
I'm the first to gripe about unity & gnome3 but I think canonical has made it clear that they are targeting mobile & custom devices. Of course if they expect people to use this on the desktop it will take a few yrs. of hammering to get obedience, better yet full compliance. |
| Khamul Feb 04, 2012 4:04 PM EDT |
@tracyanne: A rational person would believe that, yes, but when you're talking about people with giant egos who think they know what's best for everyone and want to force it down their throats, they don't necessary think along those lines. Someone else in another thread here today mentioned that maybe Canonical has learned how to do marketing by watching MS. MS is famous for sabotaging their SW so that competitors' stuff won't run on it correctly, regardless of any complaints that might create. Maybe Canonical will do the same. They seem to think they can push a radical new UI on everyone, even though they apparently haven't realized that they don't have the inertia and market dominance that MS does. |
| tracyanne Feb 04, 2012 7:22 PM EDT |
Conspiracy theory jokes aside Khamul, doing what you suggest would have a much greater fall out for Cannonical than such actions do for Microsoft. In addition unless and until Cannonical make their code proprietary, and none of it is, it's all licensed under a a Free Software license, mostly GPL. What you suggest is impossible. To attempt to do what you suggest would put the upstream developers way offside. And there are quite sufficient screams from everywhere when they do stuff that actually gets released under a free Software license (I'm done my share). But the biggest point here is that while the code base is Free Software they con't do what you suggest. The stuff just gets forked when enough people want it a different way. That's why there is Linux Mint and a whole slew of other Ubuntu dirivatives exist. |
| Khamul Feb 04, 2012 11:21 PM EDT |
I am of course being a little over-the-top here, and I don't really expect any of this to happen, but it's not impossible at all. It's perfectly possible for Mark S. to modify Gnome so Gnome-Shell doesn't run on it; he's allowed to by the GPL, and then he can include this specially-modified version with Ubuntu, and not include the normal version at all in Ubuntu repos. He'd of course be required to make his changes available, although obviously they'd never be accepted upstream, but as he's in control of Ubuntu and its repos and all the software that's included with that distro, there's nothing stopping him from doing something as ridiculous as this if he so chooses. Obviously, this wouldn't go over very well, but then again, neither did Unity, and Canonical is still going full steam ahead on that. And yes, stuff gets forked when some devs get ridiculous, which is what happened with XFree86->Xorg, and of course Ubuntu->Mint, but the latter doesn't seem to have altered Mark's grandiose plans any. |
| tracyanne Feb 05, 2012 1:38 AM EDT |
@Khamul, it's still, in the end, irrelevent. Markie doesn't have to listen to anyone, nor, as it happens, do the GNOME devs, as much as we might complain. It is after all free software. ANY one is free to take the Unity code and fork it to be what they want it to be. The fact is no one, who can, has, in spite of all the complaints from those of us who can't. By the same token ANY one can take the GNOME 3 code base and fork it to be whatever they want it to be, as far as I know, no one, who can, has..... Although it has been suggested that Cinnamon is exactly that. In the end, after we have made our complaints, and been ignored, we can choose to go somewhere else. We are not actually being forced to use Unity or GNOME 3 Shell, or for that matter any of the *buntus. That's why I'm using Linux Mint, and as soon as I am ready to upgrade.... when LM 13 is released I will be typing "apt-get install kde-full" into the cli after installing LM 13..... unlesss i simply wait for LM 13 KDE to be released. While it would be nice to actually have our comments taken into consideration, there is no onus on anyone to actually listen. This applies much more in Free Software, than proprietary software, where at least taking a concensus and finding the lowest common denomenator can make a difference between success and failure. With that in mind I still think it is important that we at least try to make our thoughts known and understood. |
| Scott_Ruecker Feb 05, 2012 12:08 PM EDT |
Quoting:While it would be nice to actually have our comments taken into consideration, there is no onus on anyone to actually listen. This applies much more in Free Software, than proprietary software, where at least taking a concensus and finding the lowest common denomenator can make a difference between success and failure. With that in mind I still think it is important that we at least try to make our thoughts known and understood. I agree Tracy, and I think that this fact you state is the hardest pill to swallow in FOSS. Those who can code and literally control what they want and do not want are the people that..by right of the GPL..have the final say in how it works..or does not work the way they like. This is a very hard concept to get across to people just being exposed to FOSS software. That as a user and not necessarily a customer..their say only carries the weight that the developers are willing to give it. |
| Khamul Feb 05, 2012 7:55 PM EDT |
tracyanne wrote:While it would be nice to actually have our comments taken into consideration, there is no onus on anyone to actually listen. This applies much more in Free Software, than proprietary software, where at least taking a concensus and finding the lowest common denomenator can make a difference between success and failure. This isn't completely true. Being popular is still important in the Free Software world, just as it is the proprietary world, it's just that the linkage between the two isn't as strong or obvious. Sure, if you're just working by yourself in your spare time, writing Yet Another Text Editor that you're hosting on github or sourceforge or something, it really doesn't matter if you're the only person who likes it. However, the Gnome devs and Unity devs aren't (all) working for free, many or most of them are getting paid to do it. In the case of Unity, they're being paid by Mark S. He's obviously not doing this all to just give something to the world, he's trying to make a successful business out of Canonical. If that doesn't happen, at some point, he may very well throw in the towel; his money supply isn't infinite, after all. If that happens, all those people working on Unity are going to find someplace else to work. Some of them may choose to continue working on Unity in their spare time, but many more probably won't; a big project like that requires a lot of person-hours, and these projects usually don't go that far unless there's people being paid to work on them full-time, as is the case with Gnome (many devs employed by Red Hat) and Unity. Same goes for Red Hat and Gnome; if RH's customers or prospective customers all tell RH they hate Gnome, what's going to happen to all the Gnome devs they employ? They're either going to be reassigned to work on something their customers like, or they're going to be shown the door. A lot of Free Software is developed by paid developers because there's some commercial interests who want it developed, and find it a better solution than just buying some overpriced junkware from MS or Oracle and dealing with all the hassle that comes with it (no or limited access to source code, no way to recompile or customize, no real say in direction of the project). These commercial interests aren't going to pay a bunch of prima donna self-proclaimed "UI experts" to work on their pet project if the commercial interests think it's garbage. |
| tracyanne Feb 05, 2012 8:36 PM EDT |
Quoting: This isn't completely true. Being popular is still important in the Free Software world, just as it is the proprietary world, it's just that the linkage between the two isn't as strong or obvious. I think it is, if you read what I said. Because there is some real need, though much much less than proprietary software, to listen, though clearly it does appear that no one actually is, at least in some large projects, this is why we need to continue to try, as loudly as we can, and tell those who act as appologists for the paradigm/functionality/lack of functionality one perceives why they are wrong about why we should love the new great replacement for sliced bread. Though to be fair, even though there is no noticable response, at the time, some projects are clearly listening.... KDE for example, as it does appear that someone has heard, and listened to complaints about Dolphin, or, maybe they were going to do it anyway... there is simply no real way to tell, no one is saying. |
| flufferbeer Feb 06, 2012 12:23 PM EDT |
Way too many Ubuntu 12.04 pro-Unity OSTRICHES coming soon, I think!!! +1 khamul on this. My 2c |
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