the rabbi has a point
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tuxchick Nov 21, 2011 2:09 PM EDT |
But it started long before Steve Jobs and Apple. |
| tqk Nov 21, 2011 3:39 PM EDT |
Get a grip. If he had said, "Steve Jobs' Apple lust spreads misery, despair among the feeble minded, those easily manipulated by marketing claims crowd following sheep", I'd agree. What he did say says more about him than about anything else. He believes marketing claims can be simply irresistable. Utter hogwash. I've never felt myself inclined towards misery and despair due to my not owning the latest shiny iBauble. Far from it, actually. And, by the way, both my sister and her husband and my parents own them and support for them falls to me. I still feel no need for them for myself. On the contrary, I prefer other, more free and open, tech. |
| tracyanne Nov 21, 2011 5:15 PM EDT |
The fact is most people are sheep, that's why advertising/marketing works. I was talking to some people I know, who were surprised my partner and I could go to the local chain stores and buy only what we went for or even nothing at all, claiming they found it impossible to resist the "bargins". Given the junk they own, I believe them. |
| dinotrac Nov 21, 2011 5:23 PM EDT |
@ta - The fact is that most people want more out of life than 3 meals and a warm place to lay their heads. That makes them marketing targets and commercials constitute marketing information. |
| mrider Nov 21, 2011 5:27 PM EDT |
@tracyanne That's true enough. IMHO, the rabbi has a point, but it's pointing at the wrong target. One can hardly complain at the companies that capitalize on the doe-eyed dumbness of consumers that think they'll be young and alluring if they drink the proper brand of carbonated sugar water. [edit]Added: Wasn't it P.T. Barnum that said "Give people what they need and you'll make a living. Give people what they want and you'll make a fortune."? |
| TxtEdMacs Nov 21, 2011 5:34 PM EDT |
ta, The amazing bargains I saw*, but sadly I had to pass. For example, I take low dose aspirin and I saw this advertised special on the shelf, three boxes taped together for an extra 5 - 7 % premium. It was such a great deal, since if you bought a second set they took fifty percent off the latter. It was too good, so I left with nothing. Consumerism, I guess I will never understand its value. YBT * I was on a couple mile stroll while waiting for my vehicle to be serviced. I guess the effort clouded my judgment. |
| albinard Nov 21, 2011 6:30 PM EDT |
@mrider: My favorite marketing quote is from H.L. Mencken: "Nobody ever lost money by underestimating the taste of the American consumer." |
| TxtEdMacs Nov 21, 2011 7:13 PM EDT |
able handed, Your quote is a bit suspicious, since consumer as a descriptive is of more recent vintage, I believe. Here is a more accurately worded version: "No one in this world has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby."* YBT * http://www.searchquotes.com/quotation/No_one_in_this_world_h... P.S. Since many followers of consumerism are not such plain people (at least in terms of expendable cash resources) I would include a broader spectrum of people. But that just might be me. |
| helios Nov 21, 2011 10:41 PM EDT |
I don't know Txt....based on the American TV viewing habits and what drivel stays on week after week and what intelligent, entertaining shows are canceled, I would be loathe to give the American Consumer more credit for intelligence than they aptly demonstrate in the Nielsens. |
| tracyanne Nov 21, 2011 10:56 PM EDT |
Given that Australian viewing habits are pretty similar, I'd also hesitate to give most Australians much credit for intelligence. |
| BernardSwiss Nov 21, 2011 11:07 PM EDT |
On the other hand, perhaps it just goes to show that the less real power people have in their own, actual personal lives, the more easily they are distracted by shiny surfaces, colorful dress and noisy spectacles? |
| TxtEdMacs Nov 21, 2011 11:55 PM EDT |
Hey Sun God, I was expanding the base, not contracting it. So I am saying some of the elite (as determined by wealth) can be included in the lower rungs of intelligence and taste scales. So how does that make me an optimist? How were my words become so readily misperceived? I guess it is my propensity to deliver non-sense wrapped in pretty ribbon, which makes my words so readily deformable. Thus, I exit chastened, but I will not surrender ... YBT |
| Fettoosh Nov 22, 2011 9:45 AM EDT |
Quoting:Given that Australian viewing habits are pretty similar, I'd also hesitate to give most Australians much credit for intelligence. Let's face it, the whole world doesn't have many intelligent people. That is why marketing works so well and politicians keep their positions so long every where in the world. |
| ComputerBob Nov 22, 2011 9:54 AM EDT |
One word: Kardashians. |
| helios Nov 22, 2011 10:20 AM EDT |
One show: Dancing with the Stars |
| Grishnakh Nov 22, 2011 12:49 PM EDT |
@Fettoosh: Actually, I think it's a little different from this. I don't think most people are quite that idiotic; the problem is that even the most brilliant genius becomes a complete idiot when you put him in a group with other people. We see this in corporations all the time: take a bunch of smart engineers, stick them in a room together (called a "meeting"), and out comes some incredibly stupid ideas. Here's a great poster about this: http://www.despair.com/meetings.html |
| helios Nov 22, 2011 1:16 PM EDT |
Grishnakh, the automotive engineers at American Motors proved your point years ago. http://images.businessweek.com/ss/07/08/0824_uglycars/index_... |
| Grishnakh Nov 22, 2011 4:01 PM EDT |
@helios: Don't blame that abomination on the engineers. Engineers are not stylists/designers. Ugly cars are completely the fault of corporate management, who hire these cr@ppy designers and green-light their ugly designs. The engineers just turn them into reality. Of course, this is still an example of group stupidity: were all the managers and executives of AMC total idiots, or was is group-think that allowed them to green-light those horrible designs? Engineers, in groups, still come up with some awfully stupid stuff. Just look at the mechanicals of the American cars in the 80s and 90s; those things were arranged horribly, it was nearly impossible to do a lot of service without doing things like partially removing the engine, etc. Those things are complete the fault of engineers. By contrast, the 90s Japanese cars I've had were totally the opposite: it was like they were designed specifically to be easy to work on. |
| gus3 Nov 22, 2011 4:11 PM EDT |
Quoting:were all the managers and executives of AMC total idiots, or was it group-think that allowed them to green-light those horrible designs? Yes. |
| BernardSwiss Nov 22, 2011 8:11 PM EDT |
Quoting: Let's face it, the whole world doesn't have many intelligent people. That is why marketing works so well and politicians keep their positions so long every where in the world. I would think that an even bigger problem is that most otherwise intelligent people seem to think that they are themselves immune to the tricks and methods used by the marketing industry -- which are of course largely aimed exploiting ignorance (aka "non-symmetrical information") and at subverting &/or circumventing the consumers logical facilities. This is admittedly harder, when the target has some knowledge and expertise concerning the subject matter (eg. purveying electronic/computing technology to participants on LXer forums) ;-) But as MS/Windows-devotees, political campaigners, compilers of the the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM), and the financial industries have all clarified in such often dramatic fashion, such knowledge and expertise are hardly a reliable or completely effective antidote. The thing is, advertisers mostly skip right past the logical faculties, but people, and perhaps especially even intelligent people, are very good at rationalizing a less than rational decision -- when they're even conscious of making one. By the time conscious, rational thought is even exercised, unconscious filters and biases have had plenty of opportunity to affect the final conclusion. |
| helios Nov 22, 2011 9:39 PM EDT |
it was nearly impossible to do a lot of service without doing things like partially removing the engine, etc. Yes...My first car bought from the showroom floor was a 76 Pinto. I mean besides the fact that it was a 2000 lb Molotov coctail, you had to break the front motor mount loose and jack it up 1/4 of an inch to drop the starter. friggin' idiots. |
| skelband Nov 23, 2011 1:09 PM EDT |
That's nothing. I have a Pontiac Montana. I was going to change the plugs before I realised that you have to unhook a load of stuff from the engine and rotate it with a strap! It's a transverse V6 and half of the plugs are under the bulkhead :( And there's is practically nothing you can do without removing the engine from the vehicle. Even reaching the oil filter requires an act of flexibility that I would normally only expect to see at the circus. |
| Koriel Nov 23, 2011 1:47 PM EDT |
@skelband That's just shockingly bad design not the fact that its a tranverse engine, which has been used in the original British Mini's since 1959 and practically all front wheel drive cars since then without the need to remove the engine. My dad used to have a Mini back in the early 70's, and I loved the thing and in general I don't like cars so that's saying a lot. |
| skelband Nov 23, 2011 2:51 PM EDT |
@Koriel: Agreed My last two cars have been transverse, both Kias: a Pride and a Mentor both with Mazda engines I believe and you could do practically anything without removing the engine or dicking with straps and stuff. |
| Fettoosh Nov 23, 2011 3:57 PM EDT |
Quoting:the problem is that even the most brilliant genius becomes a complete idiot when you put him in a group with other people. What I said has nothing to do with contagious idiocy, which on & off adds to the large pool of idiots in the world. Quoting:it was nearly impossible to do a lot of service without doing things like partially removing the engine, etc. Has it occurred to you that this may be a by-design feature? |
| helios Nov 23, 2011 5:21 PM EDT |
Yep Fettoosh...Toyota ushered in the "our parts or no parts" marketplace for automobile parts. If you take it to a service shop, they will purchase toyota parts to make the repair. |
| tracyanne Nov 23, 2011 10:34 PM EDT |
Not here, where you can get and use generic parts. |
| jezuch Nov 24, 2011 2:58 AM EDT |
My family had a Trabant (the *real* Trabant, not this new-fangled thing with the Polo engine). When you looked under the hood you wondered how something so simple could work so well ;) |
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