What an unblievably arrogant t#rd
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tracyanne Oct 31, 2011 5:39 PM EDT |
Quoting:"There is a bit of a myth that power users don't like and aren't interested in usability and ease-of use," Shuttleworth said. "I think that's nonsense." It's because I want usability and ease-of use that I don't use Unity. |
| montezuma Oct 31, 2011 5:54 PM EDT |
LOL Trace. Don't let wankers wind you up just use what you can from them. Linux Mint aka massaged Ubuntu sounds like where I am going as a "power user". BTW I thought "power users" was a Windows concept. I saw a good definition which said "If you call yourself a power user then you aren't". |
| Ridcully Oct 31, 2011 5:54 PM EDT |
I think another part of the problem is that these DE developers make an abrupt move to a new interface and then wonder at the fracas which emerges when the users realise that the familar has gone and this is a "whole new kettle of fish" which has to be relearned; let alone the fact that the new interface may have stripped out aspects of the previous DE which are essential for the some users. Personally, I am now fedup and overtired of seeing "new, new, new, new, new......cool, cool, cool, etc.etc.etc." All I want and have ever wanted is a simple effective DE that allowed me to do my work easily, effectively and quickly (I am directly echoing your statement). Gnome 2 apparently did that, so did KDE3.5. This isn't a refusal to accept innovation, development and better ways of doing things, but as I have always believed: One step at a time, not a huge jump into the unknown. |
| tracyanne Oct 31, 2011 6:01 PM EDT |
@monty, it actually doesn't matter if I am or am not a power user, I still want usability and ease of use in my desktop, which Unity ain't. |
| skelband Oct 31, 2011 6:01 PM EDT |
It's perfectly obvious why Unity is going the way that it is. He says as much in his speech. He is chasing consumers, as evidenced by the moves into music and app. purchase via the Ubuntu One resource. It is a slow transition which is why most people haven't really noticed. He is not interested in the likes of us so is not bothered if we leave. |
| tuxchick Oct 31, 2011 6:53 PM EDT |
Dung is dung, no matter how many pretty ribbons are tied around it. |
| hkwint Oct 31, 2011 7:27 PM EDT |
TA: Well, I switched to Unity (I think, I don't know how I really can tell if I use Unity or not), and it doesn't cause me too much hurdles on the usability front. OK, there's no way I can find to maximize windows, using the 'arrow down' in fact performs the 'end'-key, it doesn't do the Win7-trick (or was it Gnomes/KDE's?) where you can (half-)maximize the window by moving it to the window to the upper / left right border. But apart from that, there's not much too complain I guess. OK, it's really stupid it's hard to start a file-manager in root-mode (involves gksu I think?), having two panes (mc-style) in Nautilus isn't that easy, but I can't blame Unity for those Gnome-errors I guess. Admitted, I never really used a desktop environment last 8 years - so if it was better before Unity, I couldn't tell. The Zeitgeist-thing bothers me more, it's MSFT/GOOG/FB-style spying embedded in my distro without my consent. So maybe me the ex-Gentoo user (8 years that is), is an example of what Mark Shuttleworth means? |
| tracyanne Oct 31, 2011 8:00 PM EDT |
@hk, from your description it sounds even worse than it seemed when I tried it last (and published a screenshot, here, of a major issue for me) |
| tuxchick Oct 31, 2011 9:10 PM EDT |
OTOH, as yucko as I think Unity is, there are many good Ubuntu flavors: Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Xubuntu, Server, and so on. Gnome already jumped the shark, though I think Gnome 3 is more useful and customizable than Unity. But neither one is my cup of tea, and Gnome has always been unreliable anyway. Let Ubuntu go to small form factors-- there are plenty of other excellent desktop and server Ubuntus. |
| tracyanne Oct 31, 2011 9:24 PM EDT |
And there's always Linux Mint. |
| Grishnakh Oct 31, 2011 10:09 PM EDT |
I have a handful of favorite maxims, or expressions, which seem to fit so many situations in life. One is "never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity", which might apply here to some extent. The one which better fits this one in my opinion, however, is "follow the money". This whole scheme is about Mark chasing the money; just being the most popular Linux desktop/laptop distro hasn't made Canonical profitable yet, so he's going to follow the latest fad (here's the stupidity part) and try to get Ubuntu/Unity on tablets and other such devices. Now, I may be proven wrong in a few years, but I predict this scheme is going to fail; with Android and iOS already dominating tablets (and cellphones), this isn't exactly a ripe opportunity for a new player that hasn't proven itself. |
| tracyanne Nov 01, 2011 3:06 AM EDT |
t#rd How twee |
| JaseP Nov 01, 2011 9:11 AM EDT |
I say, "let Shuttleworth and Ubuntu mass market Ubuntu machines and get vendors on board with their dumbed-down Unity interface." Only, go and use an Ubuntu derivative, like Mint or whatever, on the machine. |
| Steven_Rosenber Nov 01, 2011 11:06 AM EDT |
Whether any of us like it is one thing, but Shuttleworth is making all the right moves. He needs to get masses of new users who are not already using Linux in one form or other. he needs to make Ubuntu different, he needs full control over the design and function of the GUI, and he needs to get Ubuntu pre-installed on huge numbers of devices -- any devices will do. He's laying the groundwork for these things to happen. It's pretty obvious that preaching to the choir won't get him there. |
| flufferbeer Nov 01, 2011 11:57 AM EDT |
@Steven_Rosenber , No, I'll have to disagree with you on this and support Grishnakh and similars. I think Shuttleworthless is making a big-time MESS-UP _directly_ for those very new user masses he wants, with this Unity t#rd! It's rather all those Ubuntu take-offs like Linux Mint and the other *buntu variants tuxchic mentions above that I think will ultimately do in Ubuntu Standard. It already seems to be going that way anyhow, whether or not YOU like the move to Unity. 2c |
| JaseP Nov 01, 2011 1:10 PM EDT |
I agree with Steven,... But I think the better approach would have been to have built in an opt out in the Unity interface that allowed for switching back to a Gnome 2.X interface (no point in going to Gnome 3 vs. Unity, really). But, too late to influence Shutteworth or the Gnome development team,... now, anyways. |
| hkwint Nov 01, 2011 1:16 PM EDT |
TA: Forgot to mention Alt+Tab doesn't work, but if those 4 minor issues are fixed, it's a good system. If you think that's "bad", you obviously never compiled / configured your own mixed DE from scratch - or tried using OpenBSD as your desktop. As to me it sounds you don't have any clue about how bad my previous system(s) was (were), ahem. But I cannot blame you for such, I'm the only one to blame for that crock up. Article about that is in the pipeline though (EditQueue I guess). |
| tuxchick Nov 01, 2011 1:28 PM EDT |
I think moving away from Gnome completely is the best tactic, since the Gnome devs have a hard-coded policy of pulling the rug out on a regular basis. They're unreliable and off in their own weird little world, so that leaves four options: fork and maintain Gnome 2, invent something else, ignore Gnome entirely, or sort-of support it as an alternate version like Xubuntu or Lubuntu. It seems they have chosen to invent something else (Unity) which may yet turn out all right. Me, I think I would promote Kubuntu to Ubuntu, and treat it the same way as Ubuntu treated Gnome 2-- y'all younguns might not remember, but part of Ubuntu's appeal back in the early days was their Gnome customizations. The Ubuntu-ized Gnome was heavily-customized, and they did a good job. It was sleek, de-larded, and well-organized, and unlike stock Gnome most everything worked. KDE4 seems to meet every important requirement: it's still a popular DE, it has finally achieved a good level of stability and functionality, and there is a separate mobile version. So why keep chasing Gnome, which is like chasing a fart in a skillet, or invent something entirely new? |
| flufferbeer Nov 01, 2011 1:42 PM EDT |
@JaseP, You wrote "I think the better approach would have been to have built in an opt out in the Unity interface that allowed for switching back to a Gnome 2.X interface..." No, I'll have to partially disagree with you as well. I think a sensical approach is the reverse; to put the default back to the very usable/customizable/tried-and-true Gnome 2.X and then to grant those tablet-users in particular the option to install their Unity DE. I'll have to agree with you, though, that Shuttleworthless&team is unlikely to consider any non-Unity inclusions for their Standard Ubuntu. And that's just TOO BAD for them and for the new Ubuntu users they're trying to attract! -fb |
| lcafiero Nov 02, 2011 12:50 AM EDT |
tuxchick wrote:Me, I think I would promote Kubuntu to Ubuntu, and treat it the same way as Ubuntu treated Gnome 2-- y'all younguns might not remember, but part of Ubuntu's appeal back in the early days was their Gnome customizations. I would promote Xubuntu, being a big fan of Xfce, but the point is taken, tuxchick. |
| fewt Nov 02, 2011 11:32 AM EDT |
After I finish completing our fork from Fedora this week, my next goal is to fork GNOME 2. Look for it soon. :D |
| number6x Nov 02, 2011 12:56 PM EDT |
Another option: port gnome 2 to Gtk 3 :) |
| tuxchick Nov 02, 2011 2:17 PM EDT |
Exactly, Larry. Pick a DE that doesn't "reinvent" itself every time it approaches actual usability and usefulness. |
| Koriel Nov 03, 2011 1:32 PM EDT |
Im using XFCE on PCLinuxOS Phinx Edition, its very good although I think their theme artwork is awfull but thats subjective and easily changed. I used to use Mint Xfce but I find PCLinux OS more responsive on the desktop probably because of the BFS Kernel they use and Synaptic actually works properly as well unlike Mint where its slowly being deprecated in favour of their own Software centre and updater. |
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