A little editorial integrity please?
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| chikauuna Jun 28, 2011 7:34 PM EDT |
And no, I am not talking about LXer Editors, although I really don't know any. I am a fairly new Linux user and most usually get my news from the Linux section of Reddit. Something today got crossways with me and I wanted to bring it up. For what good it will do I don't know. In the interest of full disclosure, I am a staff reporter for a small newspaper in Texas and while it seems that many newspapers today blur the lines between opinion and reporting the news, I can't get away with the slightest hint of bias or editorial opinion or I get blue-penciled immediately. Maybe I expect the same standards on a Linux news site. I ran across this story covered on LInux Today and found it almost offensive that an editor would post something like this along with a story post. Editors Note: yeaah more Ubuntu bashing flamebait. Like I said, I get most of my news from Reddit but started Googling for other sites and found this one as well as Linux Today. I posted a somewhat finger-shaking comment along with the others about his/her behavior and suggested their employer change the job title to Opinion Editor. At least, that would somewhat excuse poor journalistic practices. |
| Steven_Rosenber Jun 28, 2011 7:43 PM EDT |
I'm also a newspaper journalist, but I can tell you that the world of online, tech-related news is way more freewheeling than you might think. Opinion and information often travel together, and there's a lot more "I" in the copy. I'm not opposed to it. I write like that quite often. Call if the blogification of news, if you wish. LXer is a very special site, and a special community (note: I'm an editor here). It's about people and what they're reading and writing about free software. We're all opinionated but usually respectful about it. I've been in the game for a long time, and even I don't believe there's such a thing as unbiased, non-opinionated writing. The act of choosing what you write about, how you write it, who you talk to, how you use images and typography, the order and placement of stories -- journalists dabble in opinion all the time whether they know it or not. Sure there are degrees, and I gravitate to items that carry actual news and expertise as opposed to fanboy ranting, but there's plenty of room in the virtual tent. As far as I know, the "standard" for LXer is that it has to be about free software, generally for Linux/Unix, and if it meets those criteria, it's good to go. |
| tracyanne Jun 28, 2011 8:30 PM EDT |
@chikauuna, as you are a fairly new Linux user does that mean you are using Ubuntu 11.04? If so would you like to give us your impressions? |
| dinotrac Jun 28, 2011 8:30 PM EDT |
Guys - It's perfectly fine to mix news and opinion. So long as it's MY opinion. |
| nikkels Jun 28, 2011 9:36 PM EDT |
>>>>>So long as it's MY opinion. So, all of a sudden I carry no weight anymore ? :-) :-) :-) |
| dinotrac Jun 28, 2011 9:42 PM EDT |
@nikkels - It's not so sudden. Wait...has nobody told you before now? |
| TxtEdMacs Jun 28, 2011 10:00 PM EDT |
Quoting:So, all of a sudden I carry no weight anymore ? Well here in the U.S., a nickel is easily twice the size and weight of a dime. However, the latter has twice the value. Now do you understand why dino rates so high? Good, neither do I. YBT |
| jdixon Jun 28, 2011 10:27 PM EDT |
chikauuna: First, a bit of history. The current owners of Linux Today didn't found it. They're a corporation which bought Linux Today from it's original founders. Those founders went on to restart a new a Linux news site a few years later. They called it: LXer. Second, some more recent history. Linux Today has gone through a number of editors over the years, some better than others. A few months ago, their most recent editor was dumped unceremoniously, for no apparent reason. That editor is a frequent poster here. Third, there are a number of long time Linux users and many former Linux Today regulars on this site. Like Steven says, it's a very special site. And it has it's fair share of rather opinionated people (quit snickering, Steven). But then passion about a subject tends to create that. Finally, since you're looking for Linux information, if you look over on the left sidebar you'll see an entry called "This week at LWN". LWN is Linux Weekly News, and if you're looking for in depth Linux commentary, it's one of the best sites around. Welcome, and I hope you enjoy your stay. |
| Koriel Jun 28, 2011 11:07 PM EDT |
Very nice article. One of the user comments made on the article site sums it all up for me "Ubuntu is becoming the AOL of Linux" |
| Steven_Rosenber Jun 28, 2011 11:10 PM EDT |
Nobody pointed out that the headline should read, "Canonial alienates its major asset," the corporation being neither he nor she, but rather "it." Yeah, I spent many years on the copy desk. |
| skelband Jun 29, 2011 2:22 AM EDT |
"Canonical alienates its major asset," Kudos for not using an apostrophe though :D |
| TxtEdMacs Jun 29, 2011 4:04 AM EDT |
Steven,Quoting: [...] corporation being neither he nor she, but rather "it." You have not been keeping track of revisions to the U.S. Constitution, which by recent decisions by the majority of the Supreme Court changed corporate status. Corporations now have inalienable rights previously allotted to humans (having lesser amounts of skin color pigmentation), however, with less moral restrains expected. Corporations only goal is to increase its value for the benefit of its share holders and essentially not to be caught using illegal means to inflate its value. YBT |
| gus3 Jun 29, 2011 6:54 AM EDT |
@MBT, You might as well put your [serious] tags on it. |
| helios Jun 29, 2011 9:52 AM EDT |
@ chikauuna - let's talk about your experience as a new Linux user...you might be able to provide some insight for the community at large. You can contact me via msg center here on lxer or hit contact us on heliosinitiative.org. |
| JaseP Jun 29, 2011 9:55 AM EDT |
Quoting: Corporations now have inalienable rights previously allotted to humans ... Which begs the question; "Are corporations not assemblages of individual persons???" ... And if they are, why shouldn't the whole have all of the rights and privileges of the whole??? Let me say that I do not entirely agree with the analogy itself, but if that is what the determination is, then, it should follow, that corporations should have civil rights. They simply cannot vote, as that is a right reserved to individual citizens. |
| jdixon Jun 29, 2011 10:16 AM EDT |
> Which begs the question; "Are corporations not assemblages of individual persons???" ... And if they are, why shouldn't the whole have all of the rights and privileges of the whole??? Because privileges must be bounded by responsibilities. When a person breaks the law, they're thrown in jail. What can you do when a business breaks the law that is equivalent? Corporations are also effectively immortal, so the laws concerning death and inheritance can't be applied. Nor are corporations taxed as individuals, on their gross income. Etc., etc., etc. I could go on for hours, but I think that's enough to make my point. Corporations aren't individuals, and they shouldn't be treated as such under the law. Incorporation is also a creation of the state, and can be revoked by the state at any time, which is a matter that needs to be taken more seriously by both parties. Microsoft would have taken the antitrust case much more seriously if one of the proposed penalties had been the dissolution of the company. As JaseP indirectly notes below, I should have used the word corporation as the final word of my above paragraph, as a company and a corporation aren't quite the same thing. Rather than changing it; I'm leaving it as is and adding this correction separately. |
| JaseP Jun 29, 2011 11:02 AM EDT |
Quoting: Corporations are also effectively immortal... Which is exactly why I said I don't necessarily agree with the analogy,... But it's not my decision. Quoting: Incorporation is also a creation of the state... Here's where I disagree. Corporations are created by individuals,... and only approved by the state,... an important distinction. |
| jdixon Jun 29, 2011 12:29 PM EDT |
We're having a difference in terminology. I don't think we actually disagree. And you're correct in that I should have used corporation instead of company when referring to Microsoft. Companies are created by individuals, yes. In fact, the primary definition of the term is merely a collection of individuals. A corporation, however, is a different matter. It's a legal entity, created by the state as a means to confer limited liability to the owners of the corporation. It's this limited liability which is the primary advantage of a corporation over an unincorporated sole ownership company or partnership. It's also what allows the existence of the large, multinational, publicly owned corporations we know today. And it's that limited liability, originally granted by the state, which the state has the power to remove. That wouldn't automatically dissolve the underlying company, though in most cases the effect would be to do so. |
| tuxchick Jun 29, 2011 12:55 PM EDT |
Aw we scared off the OP. And I was having manners and everything. |
| jdixon Jun 29, 2011 1:26 PM EDT |
> Aw we scared off the OP. And I was having manners and everything. You always have manners, TC. |
| Steven_Rosenber Jun 29, 2011 1:33 PM EDT |
Being in the print-journalism business myself, life is better if we don't labor under the delusion that there is no bias in traditional newspapers. At least in the case of many writers in the technology space, we accept that there's bias and opinion at work. This isn't a "MSM is evil," thing -- I'm part of the so-called "mainstream media." It's just encouraging us all to look deeper into what we do, how we do it and how it's working out. And its vs. it's is baked into my DNA. |
| tuxchick Jun 29, 2011 1:42 PM EDT |
It is true there is always bias-- still, I would like to see a clearer delineation between editorial and news reporting. There is a real difference, but these days it's so blurred it's more like gossip than news. |
| JaseP Jun 29, 2011 1:47 PM EDT |
Quoting: A corporation, however, is a different matter. It's a legal entity, created by the state as a means to confer limited liability to the owners of the corporation. Once upon a time, when corporations were charted by the crown or legislature, that may gave been true. But now, most corporations are formed upon filing the required prerequisites with the gov't body responsible for overseeing registration. Most jurisdictions, particularly in the USA, simply have a body of general corporation law that governs their formation & operation. Very little state action is required, if any. So, you can hardly say they are "created" by the state. If they were, you could potentially sue state officials for civil rights violations in granting charters to illegal or immorally oriented corporations. They are simply permitted to exist by the state, as an efficient means of commerce & wealth distribution (& taxation). You're right about limited liability, though. |
| Steven_Rosenber Jun 29, 2011 1:52 PM EDT |
I don't object to labeling of news, opinion, or any subsets thereof (Q&A, "10 best" list, why it sucks, etc.) |
| jdixon Jun 29, 2011 2:19 PM EDT |
> Most jurisdictions, particularly in the USA, simply have a body of general corporation law that governs their formation & operation. Again, I think this is a difference in terminology. I don't think we're really disagreeing. Those laws are what define the legal nature of a corporation. It's still a specially created legal entity which would not exist without those laws. The fact that all the hard work has already been done and the state has streamlined the process for applying for that status is beside the point. They've streamlined the process for collecting social security at retirement too, making much easier for any individual to apply for social security. That doesn't mean social security isn't a government created institution. What you're saying is that the individual corporation isn't a government creation, which can be considered technically correct. But it's the entire class of entities known as corporations which is the government creation. > If they were, you could potentially sue state officials for civil rights violations in granting charters to illegal or immorally oriented corporations. State officials are normally granted immunity for actions taken in the process of carrying out their appointed duties. |
| JaseP Jun 30, 2011 10:28 AM EDT |
Quoting: State officials are normally granted immunity for actions taken in the process of carrying out their appointed duties. It's called sovereign immunity,... & there are limits (like civil rights violations under US civil rights statutes). My point is that there is a bit more than terminology difference between state created & state recognised. It also impacts where you place "the blame" for corporate abuses (moral blame, if not actual liability), on the corporations and their leadership, or the gov'ts under which they operate. |
| chikauuna Jul 04, 2011 1:18 PM EDT |
Tuxchick, Manners? Why are we having company or going to a funeral? I've been working up in the cool air of Colorado. I stepped out from DFW into the afternoon air and it felt like being hit with a flamethrower. This morphed into a discussion of corporations? I have been gone a while. |
| hkwint Jul 04, 2011 4:00 PM EDT |
chikauuna: LXer posts any opinions as well, along with 'journalism', and it's up to the reader to distinguish! We trust our readers, so we don't have to distinguish or do tagging or something. Even if articles are straightly the opposites of our believes, we still think it's worthwile posting. After all, who is an editor to decide what the readers want to / should read or not? I'm also an LXer-editor, but most of the times it means only joining discussions, and from time to time posting an original article. Like this one, related to op-eds posing as 'independent' think tanks: http://lxer.com/module/newswire/lf/view/61746/ Go read it, you might like it, and if not, sorry for wasting your time. It's Scott and Bob who do 95%+ of all work (and Jim 'breaking' it for 'testing' purposes, ahem), and it's Scott spending hours deciding which articles to post - and which not. General rule is, if it's FOSS-related, not overly political, in English and not from Penguin Pete, Scott posts it. But mind you, he's a human (and a great one for voluntary doing so much work for LXer IMNSHO) - so mistakes are sometimes made. Also, threads over here seem to derail pretty quickly. Once I proposed to change the commenting system, but seems our long time users like it this way. And seems we don't want to alienate them, apart from LXer being driven by volunteers - so if we want a complex system, a volunteer will have to build it. If you want to discuss the original topic at hand, you're welcome! Never mind the other people commenting, what you have to say is just as worthwhile. The only way I became one of the regular commenters, is stubbornly keeping commenting, no matter what the other folks in the same thread came up with. If they start talking about other things, it doesn't mean it's forbidden to return to the topic the thread started with. And you know what's best about LXer? It has a 'submit story' button on the site menu, in the grey bar. You can use that button to post your comments / reaction to the article you commented on, and LXer will publish it - if it meets the requirements as given above. If you're a reporter, you probably (like me) like writing stuff, and LXer encourages people - including you - to write articles and publish them on LXer. BTW: You still haven't answered tracyanne's question: Your opinions about 11.04. Instead of minding those talking about other things, if you want to discuss the topic at hand it would be a better idea to discuss the topic at hand and not mind the people talking about other things. |
| chikauuna Jul 04, 2011 4:33 PM EDT |
Whoa cowboy, I wasn't complaining about it changing topics, I was just surprised to see it morph and meld into what it did while I was away. I do not mind that, in fact I enjoy the give and take between some of the people here. I may not post very much, in fact I just joined, but I do read. I read a lot of these posts on the plane back from Colorado. Again, I have been away for almost a week and not in touch here. I did submit a three part article on my experience of moving over from Windows to Linux on Ken Starks' blog, the Blog of Helios. I do not think I could add anything to what I've already written. I also messaged tracyanne and told her the same thing. Just so you and I am straight on something, I was not "minding those talking about other things". Just commenting on a phenomenon in a new environment for myself. Should I ever "mind" anything others say, I will "mind" it in much more assertive language. |
| chikauuna Jul 04, 2011 5:07 PM EDT |
@ jdixon, Thank you for the history line on LinuxToday and LXer. Those are things you just don't find on the internet. thanks too for the tip on LWN. That is a great site. |
| jdixon Jul 04, 2011 7:09 PM EDT |
> Thank you De nada. |
| tuxchick Jul 04, 2011 8:58 PM EDT |
Quoting: You always have manners, TC. What a wonderfully ambiguous comment, jdixon! |
| jdixon Jul 04, 2011 10:38 PM EDT |
> What a wonderfully ambiguous comment, jdixon! I have my moments. ;) |
| JaseP Jul 05, 2011 8:45 AM EDT |
Quoting: This morphed into a discussion of corporations? I have been gone a while. That kind of stuff has a habit of happening around here... I apologise for any thread hijacking on my part... I personally look at the Linux "community" as being a grouping of individuals. And at the risk of making generalisations, I think Linux users tend to be more individualistic than most. I think this is also true of the "corporations" in charge of distros and/or project development. I also believe that the developers are alienating their user base... The up side is that with open source, getting back to what you want is only a fork away. |
| hkwint Jul 05, 2011 4:14 PM EDT |
Hmm, well, glad it's all clear now. My experience is, sometimes people need a bit of explanation about LXer - and I'm always happy to provide it. But if you have been reading for some while now (there's no way for me to know), then you probably know by now. |
| Steven_Rosenber Jul 05, 2011 4:39 PM EDT |
Other forums hit you with the metal ruler for derailing a thread. ... |
| jdixon Jul 05, 2011 7:37 PM EDT |
> Other forums... Yeah. Either way can be made to work. But having started on Delphi, I'm more at home with LXer's way of doing things. |
| TxtEdMacs Jul 05, 2011 7:38 PM EDT |
Steven,Quoting:Other forums hit you with the metal ruler for derailing a thread. ... Do you speak from experience or Yellow Press* conjecture? YBT * Probably a U.S. centric term, sensational (tends towards nil to none fact based) screaming headlines, e.g. News Corp. modern proponent of the practice. |
| Steven_Rosenber Jul 06, 2011 12:54 AM EDT |
Experience. |
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