Many Factors
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| uxorious53 Jun 14, 2011 5:26 AM EDT |
Thanks for your thoughts here, Jeff. I resonate with them. Over the years, in my enthusiasm about Linux, I have encouraged many friends to switch from Windows. Some try Linux as a result. However, not a few of them later go back to Windows. As I have talked with them and pondered "What went wrong?" I have come to the conclusion that Linux is not for everyone and that there are a number of factors that influence this. I am working on a website that I will point people who are considering switching to Linux to. It still needs some work (I'm tweaking the weight various factors have and the recommendations I make), but it may be of interest to you and others who read your stories. Here is the URL: http://www.phws.info/linuxlowdown/ By the way, my laptop is seven years old and I have been an e17 user for a long time to try to get the most eye candy and best user experience out my limited hardware resources. I appreciate the work you are doing on Bodhi Linux and will bring your distro into my recommendations as I continue to work on the site above. |
| Jeff91 Jun 14, 2011 8:32 AM EDT |
That site does look promising, will be keeping an eye on it. Thanks for the support for Bodhi - I have many hours invested there. Enjoy working with the E desktop a whole lot. ~Jeff |
| oldgeek Jun 14, 2011 12:46 PM EDT |
I am convinced that Linux is a superb Primary Operating System. But it has differences with Windows. The differences, I understand better now that I've studied them for a while, are not clearly, logically, and algorhymically presented anywhere, and they need to be. And K.I.S.S. !! It's missing from every forum I've ever haunted. Regardless of the RTFM and other abusive replies I've gotten and seen, the overall explanation is still missing. Linux is a kickass OS, but it doesn't install, act, work or maintain like Windows. Dontcha think if everybody knew that; and none of the smart asses who lurk the forums taking out noobs were allowed to respond, that Linux would spread and flourish faster?! I do. I'd take on the challenge of being a rational voice in all these fora just to keep the noobs out of the jaws of the l33t. There's your real mission. Who else is up for it? |
| mrider Jun 14, 2011 12:56 PM EDT |
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm My favorite Linux is not Windows site. :) |
| skelband Jun 14, 2011 1:03 PM EDT |
@mrider I found some interesting stuff in that article. It reminded me of an argument I had with a Windows familiar techie on the train once about Linux years ago. Yes, he had tried it but so many things just didn't make sense. Like where was the "a" drive (floppy)? His whole perspective was based on a Windows worldview as though it was really obvious that the "a" drive should be the floppy. From someone coming into that ecosystem, it is not entirely obvious why a floppy drive should have any kind of "a" designation. Now someone coming from Linux to Windows might ask the same question: where's /dev/floppy? The familiarity thing is a big deal, but less of an issue now that most things are done by users through an abstract GUI. |
| ComputerBob Jun 14, 2011 1:15 PM EDT |
Quoting:I'd take on the challenge of being a rational voice in all these fora just to keep the noobs out of the jaws of the l33t.You're preaching to the choir. Judging by their posts here, I'm guessing that nearly all of this forum's users have already spent quite a bit of their lives helping newbies with Linux. |
| oldgeek Jun 14, 2011 1:49 PM EDT |
@ComputerBob: You said: "You're preaching to the choir. Judging by their posts here, I'm guessing that nearly everyone in this forum has spent quite a bit of their lives explaining the differences to newbies." My remark was not stated as a slam to those who ARE teaching it to the noobs. There's a lot hidden within the frame of the problem that isn't being considered. The Linux renaissance begins when you break it down far enough that ANY person can see and understand it's inner workings and do things to and with it without breaking it or becoming pissed off at it. What I have seen written in forum responses is good to the point of the problem the noob is facing: -Grub not working -Linux erased my Windows -Video card not working But the seminal microbial pool of genetic soup is not addressed. Origins of Life. Tracked lineage. Progressive Evolution. Nuts and Bolts stuff. The Darwinian thesis that will make Linux stupid-simple. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. See the form, then know the function. And spend quality verbiage on presenting the function. Not just more History of the World of Computing as Told by A 190 I.Q. Take our learners back to Kindergarten. |
| Fettoosh Jun 14, 2011 2:01 PM EDT |
We all missing the crucial issue, which is support. A good level of quality free support for Linux doesn't exist. Forums, although there are so many of them, are not good enough. Having so many of them is a big problem. The way they are organized is a big problem. If a newbie doesn't have an e-mail address, better yet a phone # to call and talk with someone in a timely fashion, it isn't worth the effort. And If the response is not quick enough, it wont be worth it either. The shear # of hits when searching the internet is getting to be counter productive and discouraging The quality of the solutions is pathetic. Too many unverified solutions for the same problem. Too many variations to confuse even the savvy ones. What is needed, and I said this in multiple comments before here already, is a HelpDesk type of forum, with a database where users can submit their problems by creating a case number. Qualified volunteers would be the only ones who has authorization to handle cases but specific information are open for read only. It is an effort but necessary to get a major hurdle out of Linux way to proliferate faster. Without such an effort, Linux will not spread widely and for a long time. |
| oldgeek Jun 14, 2011 2:09 PM EDT |
@Fettoosh: You see, we all know about the problem of confusing and overwhelming "STUFF" out there about Linux. That isn't what's keeping Linux down. If you apply what you said above to Windows, it might also not be a widely-accepted OS. Stop seeing the mountain. Start your focus on the shovel. In your area you have people who want to know of Linux. They have either you, or the World Wide Deluge. Go To It, And Good Luck! |
| Fettoosh Jun 14, 2011 2:28 PM EDT |
Quoting:If you apply what you said above to Windows, it might also not be a widely-accepted OS. I explained that somewhere else and I will repeat it here. Windows didn't need this HelpDesk type effort simple because there was nothing else to compete with Windows at the time. Apple was too expensive and couldn't simply pirate its software. PC hardware was open and were being sold everywhere while Apple Macs were a lot more controlled. Users had no choice but to learn Windows by trial and error or find someone to help them. Linux at this time doesn't have this luxury. Quoting:In your area you have people who want to know of Linux. I do as much as I can for now, and I am seriously thinking about working on this project. |
| dinotrac Jun 14, 2011 2:37 PM EDT |
@Fettoosh - The way they are organized is not a problem for the simple reason that they aren't organized by any definition I can discern. Maybe the internet has organized itself in a way to help books make a comeback. |
| Fettoosh Jun 14, 2011 3:53 PM EDT |
Quoting:Maybe the internet has organized itself in a way to help books make a comeback. I certainly would vote for that, especially books accompanied by a CD/DVD with a good search utility, and a nice audio/video tutorial on how to use if it is an app. :) I am not a good reader and more of a visual person. |
| dinotrac Jun 14, 2011 4:18 PM EDT |
@Fettoosh -- Books as you describe -- including those for an e-reader -- would seem to be an ideal form of support for software. |
| Fettoosh Jun 14, 2011 5:02 PM EDT |
I knew it, we do agree on something!! Now let see, what else can we agree on! Ohhh, never mind, one is enough for today. |
| jdixon Jun 14, 2011 5:20 PM EDT |
> Now let see, what else can we agree on! Careful. Agree with Dino too much and everyone will start dismissing you as a cantankerous curmudgeon. :) |
| ComputerBob Jun 14, 2011 5:25 PM EDT |
Quoting:But the seminal microbial pool of genetic soup is not addressed. Origins of Life. Tracked lineage. Progressive Evolution. Nuts and Bolts stuff. The Darwinian thesis that will make Linux stupid-simple. Quoting:Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. See the form, then know the function. And spend quality verbiage on presenting the function. Not just more History of the World of Computing as Told by A 190 I.Q.If the above are indications of your writing style, then I'd like to suggest that your skills may be best suited to areas other than communicating with newbies. |
| hkwint Jun 14, 2011 5:33 PM EDT |
Fettoosh: You're probably no LISP programmer, or else you'd have used paretheses I guess (sorry, just a nerdy joke). "A (good level of quality) (free) support for Linux" is probably what you meant, but I read: "A (good level of) (quality free) support for Linux doesn't exist. Well, given all the RTFM there's enough of the second. Maybe you know StackOverflow / ServerFault. Really amazing, you can get answers within minutes! Last time I spent a few hours working on a tiny little JavaScript-problem which emerged, they gave a working solution within like three minutes. There's some rating-system so you know when a 'knowledgeable' person answered. There are enough people over there who - in my opinion - earn a "Linux helping"-grade. It's a bit like the new version of LinuxQuestions.org; another very helpful website. But indeed, the other forums are too much spread all over the internet. And users like me, once spending an hour for some obscure solution and finally finding it, usually don't share their solution with the rest of the world. Because normally you have to create three new logins to let the rest of the world know! Long live OpenID though, I wish more websites would use it. In my opinion, RTFM itself is also a problem: -First, one has to know how man pages work; so one has to learn the pagers, Like "less" and "more". -Second, one has to know how "info" works. This 8-year Linux user still doesn't, until I spend some time with it. Why not get rid of it alltogether? There is some way - I remember vaguely - to export .info to HTML. Better, convert all man and info pages to HTML. This problem is solved by the web though, instead of a CLI man I can do a "man ls" on a search engine. -Third, one has to know TLDP - while a great source - is out of date, and probably not a good idea to consult it too often. |
| dinotrac Jun 14, 2011 7:23 PM EDT |
>Not just more History of the World of Computing as Told by A 190 I.Q. For the record, I have no problem with people who have an IQ of 190. As far as I am concerned, they are welcome to tell us whatever they want. They need encouragement. After all, not everyone can be as smart as I am. |
| oldgeek Jun 14, 2011 9:48 PM EDT |
ComputerBob sez: "If the above is an indication of your writing style, then I suggest that your skills may be suited to areas other than communicating with newbies". I am not trying to use words that turn off newbies. I used those words here in fun. Not to make you think I talk over peoples' heads. The Linux help I've seen goes over the heads of prospective users. The lowdown and linux oneandoneis2 links are great efforts, but both start too far into the lesson from where I believe the beginner should be. A noob needs: -A low resource (cheapo) PC to experiment on. (Reasons for that can be explained later). -An appropriate Live Linux Distro they can boot and fool with. -A second PC with a working OS for viewing carefully crafted, fully detailed, youtube video of "How To Install Your Linux OS Distro" in 10 minute bites. -A quiet evening for Show And Tell on the basics of their chosen Distro as accessed from the live disc. You can't wreck a live CD or DVD that easily while in the PC. Then they install that Linux Distro. Following the in-depth youtube video closely, they see what they must do and know to navigate the OS. This assumes the Distro of choice is a good, well-crafted Linux and won't leave them with an unusable install. At this point, the deep, deep training begins. NOW you can hit them with the history lesson. Unix, Linus, X server, Now you get to the console, commands, and how Linux differs from Windows. Make THAT a very clear explanation so they know you can't grab a CD and find the .exe file and install their favorite program. At that point, you may have a better newbie who goes to fora asking thoughtful, concise questions. And then, you made a friend not a frustrated flamer. |
| ComputerBob Jun 14, 2011 10:06 PM EDT |
Quoting:My remark was not stated as a slam to those who ARE teaching it to the noobs.If you're not aiming your critiques and suggestions and pedagogy and demands at us -- the members of this forum -- then who are you aiming them at? Like I said before, mostly everyone here is already a "believer" with lots of experience "in the trenches" with newbies. Please forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you, but I find it kind of insulting that your comments in this thread all seem to indicate that you think you're "teaching" us all things that we wouldn't otherwise know. |
| dinotrac Jun 14, 2011 10:41 PM EDT |
Whoa there, CB, methinks you grabbed a little loco weed with your oats this morning. Last I looked, this was LXer, a place where I can GUARANTEE without fear of being truthfully contradicted that we have all -- me and you included -- have said things that we've all heard before and that might not have been completely required. It's the nature of the beast, especially when new talent comes along. Unruffle them feathers and breathe deep. I can see why you say what you say, but I really don't see any insults intended, just a desire to say one's piece among new friends. |
| oldgeek Jun 14, 2011 10:59 PM EDT |
It's OK, dinotrac. I don't mind being mislabeled. CB, I am an older man with a learning disability. I come across as a blunt and uncaring person. Asperger's, I guess. What I wanted to do here was to reel it back from where a newbie's education is presented to them now, to where I think it should start. What I want is nothing short of radical. I'm looking to change forums into simple, clear subject accessible study materials for research without confusing new users. Actually putting the first-to-be-studied first, before being subjected to the minutiae that washes them out to sea. I want youtube videos of every major distro each separate but all in many 10 minute parts that take a new user with a dirt-cheap guilt-free don't worry over wrecking it PC from booting a live Linux CD/DVD and exploring it step-by-microscopic-step, to installing the distro and using it for common PC-based tasks and recreation. I want videos on advanced Linux use. The structure. the files, the devs, repositories. Updating. Expanded repository access. Installing packages versus installing from a CD in Windows. I want clearly presented examples of the differences in Linux and Windows so the new user gets it. Clearly. Visually. Comfortingly. I want the new user to come away being exposed to the Lab before the Lecture so they know what they need to know first. And learn what comes after, after. |
| TxtEdMacs Jun 14, 2011 11:34 PM EDT |
D@mn you dino, Returning again as the voice of reason ... I want the old horrible dino back. You know the one I loved to attack, where is he? On another thread you were making loud threatening noises in my direction. But here you are throwing water on the flames. You are just no fun this way. The world must be spinning off its proper axis. YBT |
| dinotrac Jun 15, 2011 8:40 AM EDT |
@txt - Old horrible dino? Taking a trip down the dimly lit passages where minds dwell in other, more capable, souls? Imagining you possess the wherewithall, or even the whowithall, whenwithall, and whywithall to dent The Great, Handsome, Gifted, but, above all, Humble One? Pshaw, I say. |
| tuxchick Jun 15, 2011 12:09 PM EDT |
Taking a trip all right, dino. I want some. |
| tuxchick Jun 15, 2011 12:46 PM EDT |
There are many good howto Linux books for everyone from noobs to IT pros. There are print magazines. There are online publications. Gnome, KDE, XFCE are all as easy as mac or winderz, and considerably more capable. Smartphones and tablets are for people who find using more than one finger too complicated. They're simple multimedia consumption devices, high-tech televisions, that make a single demand on the user: turn off mind, open wallet. PCs are production devices for people with real work to do, and anyone who gives up after six seconds of trying is not serious, and not worth chasing as some sort of fabulous must-have customer. I've seen many XFCE questions that were already answered by clicking the Help buttons. Can't click a button? Then go away and quit bothering people. We have all the tools already: great OEM vendors like System76 and ZaReason. Great USB and LiveCD Linuxes for demos and introductions. Great everything-works Linuxes like Mandriva, Mint, Mepis. Great lighter-weight spins like Lubuntu and Xubuntu. The big missing piece is more focus on what we already have, and much much much less kvetching about the mythical, non-existent noob who instantly rams into source tarballs and derails. Get a grip folks. What we have now is superior and excellent. Whinging about 'Linux is too haaard and nobody helps' is like standing in the middle of a giant grocery store griping how there is nothing to eat. |
| Fettoosh Jun 15, 2011 3:08 PM EDT |
@TC, Congratulation on a Good rant. All that you have said are true and accurate, but the fact of the matter is, with all the things you listed and all the advantages we know about Linux, it is still not proliferating fast enough. There must be some other reason. It could be user unawareness, ignorance, uninformed, laziness, procrastination, carelessness, stupidity, lack of interest, flat out dumb, or all of the above, but the fact is, Linux with all its advantages is still not proliferating fast enough and something have to be done about it. My guess would be, that the way all this being offered or delivered is not streamlined or organized (enough) to be more effective. And in order to change that, more serious efforts by the community need to take place. I still think a HelpDesk type system, with documentation and searchable database of problem resolutions, along with audio/video tutorials on how to are the best method to trigger interest. Good quality free-support (may be initially) furnished by volunteers will tempt and encourage adoption while maintaining a good momentum. |
| jdixon Jun 15, 2011 3:23 PM EDT |
> Linux with all its advantages is still not proliferating fast enough and something have to be done about it. OK, I'll bite and play devil's advocate. Why? If a user is perfectly happy using Windows, why must we make an effort to get them to use Linux? Unhappy Windows users, sure. They're ready for an alternative. But happy ones? Why should we bother them? Most people already have to use Windows at work, so they know and understand it. Mpst of them don't want to have to learn two different OS'es. One is more than they really wanted. For these users, Linux would be more of an annoyance than a benefit. |
| dinotrac Jun 15, 2011 3:30 PM EDT |
@Fettoosh and @jdixon: There are good reasons to use Linux instead of Windows, but there are good reasons not to use Linux. One problem with this thread is that people wish to construct some mythical "average user" whose needs just happen to be wonderfully met by Linux. It takes only one application or one piece of hardware to remove Linux from consideration. In my case, it was a client's inability to easily tether his phone to the linux box in order to hook to the internet. The "average user" you guys are convinced will Love Linux exists, but not in the large numbers you imagine. That's because "average" is like the old cartoon of the guy with his feet in the fire and his head on a block of ice: on average, he was perfectly comfortable. |
| Fettoosh Jun 15, 2011 4:02 PM EDT |
@dino, @jdixon, You make it sound as if the average user is being forced to using Linux, far from it. All what I am saying is that, there are many users who are unhappy with Windows, many users, right or wrong, who might think, that Linux is difficult to use, many users who would switch to Linux if there was good support. How do I know that? Well, we see comments and articles all over the Internet about it. What I am suggesting is to reduce/eliminate these support issues so Linux adoption would increase. In turn, this will increase the availability of commercial apps. for Linux and consequently, the chicken and egg cycle would also be reduced. There is no forcing or arm twisting. |
| joel Jun 15, 2011 4:03 PM EDT |
Dino, /apt/ly said :) |
| dinotrac Jun 15, 2011 4:34 PM EDT |
@Fettoosh - ???? The average user most certainly is NOT being forced to use Linux, nor could anything I have said be reasonably read to imply that. I've simply said what I've been saying for more than a dozen years (though I used to say it on Linux Today instead of LXer because, well, there wasn't an LXer): The desktop is a much tougher nut to crack than the server. Too many different kinds of users, with different groups of needs. |
| Fettoosh Jun 15, 2011 5:26 PM EDT |
Quoting:nor could anything I have said be reasonably read to imply that. My bad, I went too far in interpreting the statement of both of you. Excluding " forcing or arm twisting " my point still stands. Quoting: Why? The same reason developers make an effort to code Free software. So we too enjoy having some good commercial applications running on Linux. So we all have a better Internet experience with less spam, viruses, etc... So we all enjoy IT Freedom and not locked-in by a monopoly. .... |
| gus3 Jun 15, 2011 6:25 PM EDT |
They hate Windows but are scared of Linux? Tell them they have more to fear from their cars than from Linux. (Ignoring our propensity for vehicular analogies...) |
| uxorious53 Jun 15, 2011 8:52 PM EDT |
Quoting:There are good reasons to use Linux instead of Windows, but there are good reasons not to use Linux. This was the point of my initial post. In http://www.phws.info/linuxlowdown I outline ten reasons people might want to use Linux and ten reasons they might not want to use Linux. From my experience, if Linux is not best for a person, but we get them to switch, we do them no favor. They will eventually switch back to Windows after a painful experience that leaves them critical of Linux. |
| oldgeek Jun 16, 2011 1:32 AM EDT |
Reading what tuxchick said, I can't make a dent in her beliefs. The arrogance in her attitude is what keeps Linux an also-ran. You can't see that as a marketing angle, giving the people who "give-up-after-six-seconds" a nurturing customized experience is what would make Linux a first choice. I am learning disabled. I tend to give up quickly like they do. It's a lingering after-effect of a crappy childhood. But I persisted to get this far because I see the potential that Linux provides. I love Linux. What takes some weeks to learn has taken me years. But I will NOT be pushed away. I will present Linux to noobs on my level. TC and the others who think like you? go back to the forums and scatter the people you don't want to help. Business as usual is what they all expect anyway...... |
| BernardSwiss Jun 16, 2011 4:00 AM EDT |
Quoting:OK, I'll bite and play devil's advocate. Why? If a user is perfectly happy using Windows, why must we make an effort to get them to use Linux? Unhappy Windows users, sure. They're ready for an alternative. But happy ones? Why should we bother them? The problem with that argument is revealed if one replaces Linux versus Windows with healthy diet versus fast food diet, regular exercise versus coach-potato-ing, motorcycle helmets versus wind in your hair, UV-blocking sunglasses vs "fashion" glasses , swimming lessons vs water wings, taxi vs drunk driving, Democrat vs Republican, marijuana vs crystal meth... sure, some things are more like sailing vs surfing, pizza vs chocolate, wine vs beer, coke vs pepsi... I guess the question is whether it's just a matter of preference, or something with actual consequences (especially consequences that affect others). |
| jdixon Jun 16, 2011 8:36 AM EDT |
> From my experience, if Linux is not best for a person, but we get them to switch, we do them no favor. Exactly. And if a user is happy using Windows and it meets their needs, or simply isn't willing to make the effort to learn a different OS, then Linux isn't best for them. It's the users who simply can't put up with the various Windows annoyances anymore (mostly viruses and spyware) or can't afford to keep up with the Windows upgrade treadmill who need Linux the most. |
| jdixon Jun 16, 2011 8:47 AM EDT |
> healthy diet versus fast food diet, regular exercise versus coach-potato-ing, motorcycle helmets versus wind in your hair, UV-blocking sunglasses vs "fashion" glasses , swimming lessons vs water wings, taxi vs drunk driving, Democrat vs Republican, marijuana vs crystal meth... Sigh. Apples and oranges. And even allowing for that I could take half an hour and tear your list apart point by point. But why bother. The differences should be obvious to anyone willing to look. Linux vs. Windows is a choice, and there are costs and benefits to both sides. To me, the benefits of Linux far outweigh the costs, but that's not true for everyone. And even I need to keep a Windows machine around for work. > ...or something with actual consequences (especially consequences that affect others). And there's no way you can gauge those consequences for another person. Only they know their circumstances well enough to do that. |
| ComputerBob Jun 16, 2011 9:20 AM EDT |
dinotrac said:
Quoting:Whoa there, CB, methinks you grabbed a little loco weed with your oats this morning... I can see why you say what you say, but I really don't see any insults intended, just a desire to say one's piece among new friends. Since then, among many other things, oldgeek said: Quoting:Reading what tuxchick said, I can't make a dent in her beliefs. The arrogance in her attitude is what keeps Linux an also-ran.. I will present Linux to noobs on my level. TC and the others who think like you? go back to the forums and scatter the people you don't want to help... No loco weed here. I stand by what I said. |
| dinotrac Jun 16, 2011 9:58 AM EDT |
@cb - The reference to TC's beliefs is jut plain dim-witted. I don't know many people who have made a bigger contribution to getting plain and comprehensible Linux documentation out than Carla. I happily reviewed her Linux Networking Cookbook on Slashdot, and keep it on my bookshelf. |
| dinotrac Jun 16, 2011 10:01 AM EDT |
@eldergeek - If defending your beliefs is arrogant, then I should hope we are all guilty. Calling people arrogant for having beliefs and acting accordingly (Carla's written several helpful books, was a linuxchix chick, etc) says more about you than it does about her. Just remember: you're among friends here, if you want to be. |
| tuxchick Jun 16, 2011 12:44 PM EDT |
I think we're getting trolled. And if not--if you have time to write multiple rants, you have time to do your homework and learn what is already available. And collect it in a blog and share it. Jeff, solutions to the (IMO rather improbable) hurdles you mentioned already exist, and have for many years. I think there is a good article in providing answers-- which distros support multimedia out of the box? Where to purchase good OEM Linux computers? What do you do with a tarball? It wouldn't require long answers, but merely links with short descriptions. Chasing this mythical "average user" has done more to damage Linux than anything or anyone. |
| dinotrac Jun 16, 2011 12:58 PM EDT |
@Chasing this mythical "average user" has done more to damage Linux than anything or anyone. It is, at the very least, up there. |
| JaseP Jun 16, 2011 1:52 PM EDT |
Quoting: Chasing this mythical "average user" has done more to damage Linux than anything or anyone. Agreed. I am especially irked by the fact that the developers could always create an "easy mode" interface like the Ubuntu netbook remix launcher. They don't have to dumb down the whole shebang. I consider myself an "ABOVE average user"... |
| dinotrac Jun 16, 2011 3:09 PM EDT |
@TC and @JP -- And here's the rub, something you know if you watch kids spend any time with techno toys: There's day 1 and there's day 10 and there's day 100. They figure stuff out as they go. The essential thing is that you can operate on day 1, operate better on day 10, and be awesome on day 100. |
| oldgeek Jun 17, 2011 11:05 AM EDT |
I take the viewpoint that Linux is a system that provides a foundation of affordable computing for folks with little money. I advocate the re-use of what lots of people consider "old" computers because they can be effective AND inexpensive. The main portable computer in my last job was an IBM @233mhz. laptop, because the battery held a charge and a Puppy Linux made it a viable machine for the tasks I did. That was this year. dinotrac, you're likely right about TC. I am always touchy about "exclusionary" practices which is what the blustering over a struggling newby looks like to me. CB, I dunno what your loco weed quote and answer means. My premise is that Linux represents an OS that the poor can use. And I keep doubting that many people see that clearly enough. I insist they get the proper treatment by savvy users so they aren't locked out of the experience that computing and the internet provide. I see quotes here about "dumbing down". That's not what I want. I want Linux to be understood for the amazing tool it is. What I learned by playing with Puppy Linux, and breaking/repairing it is that it is NOT as mysterious and strange as it is generally regarded to be. Thus far it is misused, misquoted, underorganized, (where info is concerned), and generally viewed as more of an odd and secondary thing than it should be. Linux is a powerful answer to the question of how information, education and world-connectedness get into the hands of those who need those services to improve their lot. The tools to make that happen are better structured answers and learning materials. A series of video learning aids that start with the use of live Linux discs and expand to installs either separately or dual-booted. What I see so far is too much pre-use history and histrionics. Lesson One must be the hands-on tour. Somehow, in all the vitriol my attitude has created, I'm hoping to change how Linux is perceived and presented. I also hope all you responders and lurkers get the gist and roll up your sleeves. |
| jdixon Jun 17, 2011 11:21 AM EDT |
> I take the viewpoint that Linux is a system that provides a foundation of affordable computing for folks with little money. Well, we agree about that. From my comment above: "It's the users who ... can't afford to keep up with the Windows upgrade treadmill who need Linux the most." And with off lease Pentium 4 machines going for $100 or less (see http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=P1-PH1-P4300-SFF-PB-... for just one example), it's a practical solution. |
| DrGeoffrey Jun 17, 2011 11:25 AM EDT |
Quoting:I take the viewpoint that Linux is a system that provides a foundation of affordable computing for folks with little money. That's not what led me to Linux. I switched because my family tired of the endless expense of poorly performing software. . . software that never, ever, improves. Linux is secure and provides a continually improving (although with the occasional hic-up) user experience. It truly does get it done. |
| Fettoosh Jun 17, 2011 12:13 PM EDT |
Quoting:@Chasing this mythical "average user" has done more to damage Linux than anything or anyone. There is nothing mythical about the Linux average user because it does exist, you see it all over the internet, especially on the multitude of forums. Even Lxer has Linux average users. I wonder how chasing the "average user" damaged Linux? Do you mean it lead to dumbing down Linux? |
| JaseP Jun 17, 2011 3:10 PM EDT |
@ Dino... I agree with the learning curve thing... But my point is that instead of removing features, the developers should be simply creating tools to tweak the UI for new, moderate & advanced users. The Ubuntu Tweak app is an excellent example of what I'm talking about, but it was developed by outside users, not Ubuntu's team. |
| dinotrac Jun 17, 2011 6:56 PM EDT |
@JaseP - Or, at the ver least, creating a discoverable interface which lets the new be useful and the experienced be great. |
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