Many thanks.
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Bob_Robertson Nov 29, 2010 2:35 PM EDT |
I greatly appreciate your summation of the KDE4 user experience. I am reaching the point that I, too, am going to move on from KDE3 somehow, and it's good to know that it can be done. The opinions on Dolphin are depressing. I've found that Konqueror3 and its IOslaves is a wonderful system for handing local and remote files. I will miss it, as I do not doubt your description. No one asked me, no one would have wanted to, but if they had I would have told them to START with what KDE3 does when they built KDE4, then move on from there. I am not looking forward to the whole database engine thingie for the address book. Pointless increased complexity seems to be the buzz-phrase of KDE4. I hope Kmail is as much better as you imply, to justify the change. |
| azerthoth Nov 29, 2010 2:42 PM EDT |
I do like the write up, from the list of failings and battling with computer, broken dependencies and whatnot. This is a package manager and distribution problem not endemic to KDE. |
| dinotrac Nov 29, 2010 2:53 PM EDT |
I know that I appreciate your efforts. Wish I could say the same for the KDE team. |
| helios Nov 29, 2010 2:57 PM EDT |
The opinions on Dolphin are depressing. I've found that Konqueror3 and its IOslaves is a wonderful system for handing local and remote files. In the brief time I used KDE 4.4, I was left scratching my head at the neutering of Konqueror. It appears that KDE began focusing their konqueror efforts more on a browser experience than a file manager's role. That is indeed a shame. Konqueror on its best day was a mediocre browser but in its day, it was one of the best, if not the best file manager that could be used in KDE. Even today, dolphin seems incomplete when compared to what konqueror used to be. From what I understand, Dolphin is about as good as it is going to get sans some minor bug fixes. Thanks for the article Tony. It only confirmed in my mind what I had already experienced. Any DE that needs that much tweaking to become what you need it to be is going to pull itself from the user market. |
| Scott_Ruecker Nov 29, 2010 3:20 PM EDT |
All I know is that I really miss KDE 3.5 and even though I have no complaints with my Gnome desktop I would still love the chance to slip on the old comfy 't-shirt' of KDE 3.5 as it were. If the Trinity Project is all its cracked up to be then I will most likely in the near future give it a whirl. Tony is a trooper who went above and beyond the call of duty to see if he could wrangle 4.4 into shape. He did, but wow what a pain! |
| Bob_Robertson Nov 29, 2010 3:29 PM EDT |
Scott, I installed Trinity as a test on what I hope to be my "media center", and I have to say it came up and acted just fine, using my existing .kde directory settings once it was renamed .trinity The thing is, I want the KDE3 _face_ with some of the updated applications. Ok, not the Konqueror/Dolphin debacle, but the new K3b does fix problems that the 3.5 version had. Such like that. Maybe I'll dive head-first into it one day soon and do my own write-up of the experience. It can be a Trinity/KDE4/Debian_Squeeze article. But first, I'll turn the heat up so my fingers work better. |
| helios Nov 29, 2010 3:42 PM EDT |
I'll turn the heat up so my fingers work better. Yeah, me too. It's currently 79 degrees F. but we're expecting a cold front this afternoon. It's supposed to knock us down to an arctic-like 58 degrees. I have trinity newly-installed via a default Gnome install of Ubuntu LTS. Since there were no other instances of KDE within, it went pretty smooth. Weird though...after almost two years as a Gnome user, I find myself forgetting some of the stuff I loved back then. It's all there...I just had to dig a bit into the mental muck a bit to remember. |
| azerthoth Nov 29, 2010 4:27 PM EDT |
@helios 58 F is arctic in the summer. |
| helios Nov 29, 2010 4:31 PM EDT |
But in Austin Texas, it's considered "chilly" for this time of the year. People wearing coats and hats for heaven's sake...I think it's funny. |
| Bob_Robertson Nov 29, 2010 4:39 PM EDT |
> It's supposed to knock us down to an arctic-like 58 degrees. I turned the heat off for fiscal reasons, it was 58 inside the apartment this morning when I got up. Ice on the windshield, etc. Too bad that it doesn't snow but maybe one day the entire winter here, at least snow is a good _reason_ to put up with cold. Otherwise, it's just uncomfortable. ...just like KDE4. |
| Ridcully Nov 29, 2010 5:31 PM EDT |
Thankyou everybody. I am going to have a go providing a couple of comments to each person, but the simplest way to start is to thank you all for the helpful and constructive comments. I very much appreciate them. Since the weather has come up, here's my tuppence. Most days at the moment here, I am in light shirt and shorts in a "foothills" area 1300 feet in altitude - we call these things mountains.....We're supposed to be leading up to midsummer here but current daily temp ranges are 15-27 degrees celsius.......ummm.......59 - 81 Fahrenheit so we consider that the weather here is very balmy, not the scorchers we can get where the temperature at about 2pm reaches 105 (circa 40 Celsius) coupled with high humidity where the perspiration drops from your fingers onto the keyboard. We are on solar power and are not equipped for normal air conditioning. For Bob_Robertson: I hope the write up helps anybody contemplating the same move cut a few corners. It's over a week now since I wrote part II and KDE4.4 has remained rock solid and just works. I am getting more and more comfortable with it, but have absolutely no desire to trial anything more complex - if it ain't broke, why fix it? This "simple KDE4 format" is so useful, I'd recommend it to the KDE4 team as something that seems to be a recognised need in the KDE user base. Perhaps a "one button click" to get to this position ? But no, I have already noted the additional complexity they are pouring into KDE4.6 beta. The entire software package is now moving to a complexity that is well above my experience here. For azerthoth and dinotrac: I keep hoping that this article and its debate may somehow intrude on the consciousness of the KDE4 team and make them seriously consider what they have done to the package and whether or not they might provide a "simpler, cut-down version". Look, no "ifs buts or maybes", the effort they are making is wonderful and I have nothing but admiration for their dedication and integrity. But, but, I am minded of some story I read somewhere in which the story relates how well meaning people who loved a child showered it with lots of expensive and complex toys and were then puzzled by the lack of appreciation shown. It turned out that the people had forgotten the basic rule: ask the child what it personally wants ~ and that turned out to be a very simple, brightly coloured, bouncing ball. For Helios: My experience with Dolphin gives me the impression that it is a file manager with limited abilities. In fact, I'd give it KDE2 status. It works, but only provides the simplest abilities. The icon selection down the left hand side does NOT equate to the directory tree structure that was present in Konqueror. Quite honestly I remain confounded that the KDE4 team has chosen to put such a limited software package in a DE that is supposed to be the "latest and greatest". I found that the two column mode (when you can copy things easily from one Dolphin column to the other) is very useful, but I cannot see yet how to get the same flexibility as Konqueror had. The settings problem drove me crazy......it would NOT accept permanent settings. Perhaps I am trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole. Of course, others may find it perfect and I agree that my experience is "my" experience. Lastly, (because he did comment) I again acknowledge Scott's enormous help with the production of this article set. I have published books through editorial staff but never a web article. It's thanks to Scott and his team that a draft in .odt format became what it is now and his encouragement was marvellous. As I noted in the article, I am more than interested in the Trininty project and hope to put it on a test drive for serious examination in a few days. |
| hkwint Nov 29, 2010 7:13 PM EDT |
Tony: Many thanks, might have done it in 3 parts though! I only briefly read the article, since the snow over here requires me to get up early tomorrow. I share the concerns about Dolphin, I only use it as a "mounter of portable media". At first, I had difficulties displaying the address bar, though it isn't that hard (just click with the mouse). In column view, it seems you can't change the columns width. In my opinion, it's really cumbersome. Hence I still use Bash for file management. However, I've been pretty impressed with Krusader. I think anyone dissatisfied with Dolphin ought to try it. As far as I understand, it supports many protocols. Recently, I've successfully been using it with the 'fish' protocol (transfer files to a remote server using scp). For anyone accustomed to Midnight / Windows / Total commander, it will be pretty familiar. It's also able to use tons of other useful programs, like kdiff, Gwenview, kget, kdesu, kmail, 7zip, checksum utilities and so on. It's pretty easy to use with keyboard only as well, once you're used to the keys. Most important to Konqueror lovers probably, is it's very configurable and can do plenty of advanced things. It has abilities which I don't even grasp as of yet! Very comprehensive, comes with everything including the kitchen sink. Quoting:Too bad that it doesn't snow Sure? The first day of nation-wide snow just caused the worst 'evening traffic jam' in this countries history, today. Even if it was only a 3cm! Having seen two small and one big accident (all within 50km) I'm glad I just returned home in "one piece". People on the radio were jealous of someone who goes to Australia for two months tomorrow, because that's where summer starts! |
| Scott_Ruecker Nov 29, 2010 8:09 PM EDT |
Tony gives me too much credit..It is easy to edit and article set that is all but ready to post.. To say that Tony and I have hit it off is like saying helios and I only like each other cause we have too..;-) You know how much I am joking in good fun in saying that Ken.. |
| dinotrac Nov 29, 2010 9:48 PM EDT |
Tony -- Bingo. Ears are there for a reason. |
| helios Nov 30, 2010 12:24 AM EDT |
Of course I do Scott...we now interrupt this thread to briefly hijack it... Was supposed to be coming your way this summer Scott...had a short 2 month contract with Honeywell but gave it up because of things I have to deal with here... Like I wanted to come to Phoenix in July and August. Been there...sunscreened that... |
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