wow 1 out of 24
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| scan2006 Nov 09, 2010 6:37 PM EDT |
I only agree with # 2. |
| bigg Nov 09, 2010 6:48 PM EDT |
I agree with 1, 14, and 15. I disagree with #2 as well. If you eliminate the infighting, that means you've decided to close the development process. Choice and openness mean infighting. And it's not like the distro arguments are worse than debates about Mac vs Windows. |
| DrDubious Nov 09, 2010 6:59 PM EDT |
Not this again... These guys' complaints always seem to boil down to "we want all Linux to be pretty much the same, and like Mac OSX except that we don't have to pay for it." |
| JaseP Nov 09, 2010 7:02 PM EDT |
Yep. Tired same-old/same-old. |
| tmx Nov 09, 2010 7:39 PM EDT |
"It's time either to switch to a Windows-like registry" *throws up* |
| tracyanne Nov 09, 2010 7:56 PM EDT |
That was the one I had a bit of a problem with. There are a number if issues there, however that I agree need to be addressed. and the proliferation of the (dot) files and directories is a bit annoying when one elects to show hidden files. |
| scan2006 Nov 10, 2010 12:43 AM EDT |
I love the dot files! I love the fact that I can share my home dir for all the distros that I use and have continuity throughout. |
| hkwint Nov 10, 2010 3:28 AM EDT |
Some of these issues are about representation: Some file browsers - like Dolphin - don't show the dot-files unless told so. It's easy to link all dotfiles to a 'Settings' directory for the ~ dir only, and display that directory instead. I think I know what the writer of the article means: When you have a Gtk-box (I think it's GTK, though not sure) for file selection, it displays 117 dotfiles / directories I'm not interested in, as there are just 12 directories I created in ~. However, in Firefox if I want to save something, it doesn't show dotfiles, and I don't know how to 'unhide' them. The thing with "one app, one directory" can also easily be solved by just linking and hiding. With today's package querying systems or hooks (things to do after the package is installed), it should be pretty simple to link all files pertaining to a package to one dir. It might be nice if - in some way - it would be possible to write a plug-in for Nautilus, Dolphin or whatever reflecting these 'representation'-issues. |
| jezuch Nov 10, 2010 3:33 AM EDT |
Quoting:Choice and openness mean infighting. Actually that means that the infighting is visible to all. In a proprietary world it's all neatly hidden behind the PR department, but we all know how ugly the fights of corporate warriors can be. |
| Jeff91 Nov 10, 2010 9:08 AM EDT |
Pff. People that write about Linux like this should actually use Linux... |
| JaseP Nov 10, 2010 9:50 AM EDT |
> "It's time either to switch to a Windows-like registry"
>*throws up* Ugh, I guess my eyes had glazed over by the time that one appeared. Besides,... Haven't they heard of the Gnome Configuration Editor? You get your neat and tidy system editing tool & no forced centralized file to explode on you. Some apps & settings aren't in the tool, but you gotta take the good with the bad. For system wide changes, you just have to alter the default user profile (It'd be nice if someone invented an app for doing just that). |
| gus3 Nov 10, 2010 11:33 AM EDT |
Since we're on the topic of dot-files, I'm going to throw in this public service announcement: DO NOT EVER type are-emm, dash-are-eff, dot-star. ".*" expands to "..", which reaches to the root, hence the entire system, no matter what directory you're in. |
| hkwint Nov 10, 2010 7:38 PM EDT |
JaseP: They mention gconf IIRC. gus3: Thanks for reminding. I remember .. being dangerous in some way; though it seems I forgot - yet again! |
| tqk Nov 11, 2010 1:41 AM EDT |
@gus3 Quoting:DO NOT EVER type are-emm, dash-are-eff, dot-star. ".*" expands to "..", which reaches to the rootrm -rf * .txt rm: .txt not found, no such file or directory. There's a typo in that line. :-) |
| JaseP Nov 11, 2010 10:06 AM EDT |
@hkwint I must have glazed over by that one too. |
| gus3 Nov 11, 2010 10:20 AM EDT |
@tqk: I wasn't going to type it directly, so that nobody could copy-paste what I typed into a CLI to see, "hmmm, what does this do?". |
| ComputerBob Nov 11, 2010 10:27 AM EDT |
@gus - you could have saved yourself all of those keystrokes -- and protected all of the newbies -- by just not typing any of it. ;) |
| gus3 Nov 11, 2010 11:22 AM EDT |
I think of it as protecting the rest of us from the newbies. |
| Bob_Robertson Nov 11, 2010 1:04 PM EDT |
>DO NOT EVER type are-emm, dash-are-eff, dot-star. The voice of experience. |
| gus3 Nov 11, 2010 1:06 PM EDT |
Someone else's experience, fortunately. |
| jdixon Nov 11, 2010 1:22 PM EDT |
> Someone else's experience, fortunately. As long as it's a normal user running the command, all that should happen is they delete their own directory. Now, running it as root, on the other hand... |
| hkwint Nov 11, 2010 8:22 PM EDT |
Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure I tried that command once. Back in the days I screwed / reinstalled my current BSD / Linux installation every two weeks I guess.
Nowadays, I'm even afraid of typing "rm -r" removing .. (two dots) sometimes. The -f switch, I still don't get it. Apart from suppressing output, is there really a need for it? |
| ComputerBob Nov 12, 2010 9:24 AM EDT |
Here's an idea: Why don't we list a whole bunch of dangerous commands that newbies could type that would mess up their systems really badly — commands that they would probably otherwise not even know existed. To protect them, of course. [/sarcasm] |
| JaseP Nov 12, 2010 9:59 AM EDT |
@ ComputerBob It's like stories of the "ninja death touch." If you let someone know of a dangerous thing, they all want to see/try it. So there's no "containment" you could use... But unlike the "death touch," these Linux CLI commands really exist, they're not just myth/urban legend. It's also like gun safety. You make someone safer with a gun by teaching them the proper respect for handling it, not by letting it remain an attractive mystery. |
| tuxchick Nov 12, 2010 11:50 AM EDT |
ComputerBob, you mean like disabling ctrl+alt+del for their own good? Because those keys are right next to each other, and even good typists hit them by accident all the time, and then they're all messed up. It's pandemic. |
| caitlyn Nov 12, 2010 1:20 PM EDT |
Lovely bit of sarcasm, tuxchick. How many articles did we see on LXer.com explaining how to restore that bit of functionality? Thankfully the distros I use did not go down that path, Back to the article: #1: I agree that PulseAudio remains broken. What I don't agree with is that Pulse Audio is "where it's at" and that everything else is old news. I like my Slackware derivatives that use plain old ALSA. They just work. That's also how I fixed Ubuntu sound issues on my netbook during one release: I ripped out PulseAudio and went with ALSA. The problem here is reinventing the wheel and fixing things that weren't broken. I don't want to see PulseAudio fixed. I want to see it abandoned. #2: Old Israeli joke: If you have two people in the room you have three political parties... and an argument. Sure, I'd love to see less infighting but changing that would require changing human nature. #4: Linux apps are Linux wide if you know how to do things for yourself. The old argument that too many choices are a bad thing just doesn't fly. How are you going to enforce standards? Who decides what stays and what goes? How do you do that without throwing the GPL or similar FOSS licenses out the window? You can't. #5: Hogwash! Windows doesn't have great backwards compatibility with Win95 apps. Sure, some work. I can also make NCSA Mosaic work on a modern distro. I did it recently to make a point using old Red Hat packages. Linux isn't better or worse than any other OS in this respect. #7: So what? See #4. Again, who is going to enforce naming conventions? Does this really bother people? Not many, I'd bet. #9: This one I actually agree with, but is the problem Linux development or hardware vendors who don't want to share their "secret sauce" or support Linux? #10: Please, no. GRUB may not be the prettiest boot loader on the planet but the functionality is second to none. The ability to go back to a previous kernel proved invaluable when it turned out the latest Slackware 64-bit kernel upgrade wouldn't boot on my system. #11: Already done. People give CLI answers because they are often quicker and easier, not because GUI front ends don't exist. #12: Please, emphatically, NO!!! If you've ever worked professionally doing any sort of support or administration you'd know having a good, known starting point to work from is essential. This is a recipe for guaranteed breakage sooner or later. There is good reason why none of the enterprise class Linux distros do rolling releases. #13: This is a matter of personal taste. At least we're not stuck with one DE to rule them all like Windows or Mac users are. #14: You are assuming man pages are the only documentation out there. They aren't. #15: This is your personal taste again. Some of us really, really, really like GIMP. #16: Really? On anything resembling modern hardware? Compare the OOo resource footprint with, say... Microsoft Office and get back to me. Streamline the code and make it better, sure. Throw out the baby with the bathwater? Thanks but no thanks. #17: Then don't run Linux. POSIX and UNIX compatibility is a good thing, and it was part of the original point of developing Linux in the first place. #18: See #4. Choice is a good thing and is what sets Linux apart in any case. Please, please, please do NOT ever turn Linux into a clone of MacOS or Windows, with a top-down proprietary model where decisions are made for the users. Besides, who is going to make that choice? How are you going to enforce if? #19: This is Linux, not Windows. There are choices other than Ubuntu or NetworkManager or Nautilus. My WiFi does not clutter my screen and that is the way it works out of the box. This is why choice is a good thing. We aren't all stuck with Mark Shuttleworth's ideas about desktop design. #20: The Windows registry is an arcane mess that most users do not and will not ever understand. I get your point about dot files but you want to replace bad with worse. #22: Some distros already do this, others don't. It seems to depend on how rigid they are in adhering to FOSS technologies. Anyway, this one is already done, just not in all distros. #23: What doesn't work about sudo or su now? Sudo, in particular, is very configurable. It works in any and every distro once you configure it. I don't see the problem here. #24: This one I agree with wholeheartedly. I really, really have a problem with people who want to turn Linux into something more like a proprietary OS. When these folks say they want to standardize that is what they are really saying. |
| azerthoth Nov 12, 2010 1:45 PM EDT |
Caitlyn: re #23 some distro's (3 that I can think of, although all the same family) have a slight bug with sudo. The fix is pathetically easy just no one upstream wants to implement it in either of the ways I have found. There is a minor groups and $PATH issue that is 99.5% meaningless. The .5% thats left though, any bugs it induces may not show up for weeks or longer, and at that point troubleshooting back to it is nearly impossible. BTW gentooer's the easy fix is add: source /etc/profile to /root/.bashrc |
| Steven_Rosenber Nov 12, 2010 2:26 PM EDT |
I just fixed sudo in Fedora. It's not a bug, just an annoyance: /usr/local/bin is not in sudo's path. My user and root have it, but not sudo. So I ran visudo and made this change: before: Defaults secure_path = /sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin after: Defaults secure_path = /sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin |
| hkwint Nov 12, 2010 10:41 PM EDT |
I think /etc/profile should be sourced / executed anyway, because else having it is pretty meaningless. |
| tuxchick Nov 13, 2010 12:37 AM EDT |
Thanks Caitlyn. Gratuitous changes drive me nuts. Quoting: It's also like gun safety. You make someone safer with a gun by teaching them the proper respect for handling it, not by letting it remain an attractive mystery. Exactly. Channel that energy into something useful already, like updating or writing a howto. Mapping ctrl-alt-delete is one line in a config file, for deity's sake. It's a heck of a lot easier than Grub 2, or PulseAudio, or figuring out how to use script and ad blockers. Tangentially on-topic, I so wish to rant about how it's safer to remove all the dopey safeties on tools because they are less safe. Like having to simultaneously press the trigger and a switch to start a power tool. Hey awesome plan, if you have catcher's mitt-sized hands. I don't, so I wire around the dratted things. Exact same mentality as "hey let's make this smart software stupider so users won't be all confuzzled." OK all done now. |
| tuxchick Nov 13, 2010 12:44 AM EDT |
The one nice thing about PulseAudio is being able to route playback to different sound cards, if you have more than one. But the interface is confusing and there are at least four different control panels scattered around different menus, and you can't configure anything until it's actually running. So you can't set to something like 'VoIP client on soundcard 1 and Firefox to sound card 2' until you are on a call, or have something playing in Firefox. It's laggy and CPU-hungry, it's a real pain to turn on and off, and it dies unexpectedly. I have not had good experiences with it. It seems that development on it has been sporadic for the past year or so. A big blech from me. |
| jacog Nov 15, 2010 5:28 AM EDT |
tuxchick - I have heard similar gripes from people who need to develop low-latency sound application on Linux. None of the APIs seem to be nearly on par with its counterparts in proprietary-land. This is another reason why I really would like for there to be more big-name games developed for Linux. It's an indirect way to get people with loads of resources to put some towards improving multimedia on our platform of choice. Kind-of like how sometimes the military actually ends up creating things that are good for more than just blowing things up. ;) |
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