This is nothing new
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| bigg Oct 03, 2010 5:46 AM EDT |
Quoting:In Lucas's eyes, CUT becomes interesting if it can provide a rolling distribution (like testing) with a "constant flux of new upstream releases". For him, that would be "something quite unique in the Free Software world". The snapshots would be used as starting point for the initial installation, but the installed system would point to the rolling distribution and users would then upgrade as often as they want. This is what Arch does. The article is written as though there is something original in the ideas they've got. Debian testing is a development distribution, not a rolling release. The distinction, which you learn if you use both Debian testing and Arch, is that a rolling release requires that new versions of the packages always work, and that broken packages have to be fixed immediately. With Debian testing, you get a package that works when the dev is in the mood to provide one. Questions about the package are answered with an extension of the middle finger and "use stable". All they'd have to do is look around a little bit and they'd see how to do what they want. It's painful to watch folks reinventing the wheel, all the while thinking they're innovative. |
| hkwint Oct 03, 2010 8:27 PM EDT |
Quoting:a rolling release requires that new versions of the packages always work It doesn't, if you use "masking" like Gentoo. That would also solve the issue about "disappearing packages" in 'testing': Don't make them disappear, just mask them. It's what Gentoo does to Chromium, the newest Opera / FF (nightly builds) and the like. The announcement about the rolling release poses all the questions which have long been answered (and tested!) in Gentoo. After that, there's not much point in keeping 'testing' alive in my opinion, because 'testing' becomes 'rolling' with everything that's masked removed, so testing is a subset of 'rolling'. Add the ability to "tag" packages in "rolling" with testing and their, done. Most interesting what I learned from this article, is that (some?) Debian users think both 'unstable' and 'testing' aren't suited for day to day use, and stable is old. |
| dyfet Oct 04, 2010 12:38 PM EDT |
This is precisely what is needed. While aptosid (sidux) did something like this already, it did so for Debian unstable, and hence was a little too far on the edge in my opinion. Having something like aptosid, but based on stabilizing testing rather than sid for usability, could be very ideal. Close to that might also be the LMDE effort as it evolves. |
| Bob_Robertson Oct 04, 2010 4:05 PM EDT |
I tracked Sid for 8 years on the desktop, and sure there were occasional hiccoughs, but for the vast majority of the time updates were seamless and functionality excellent. I paused with Lenny only because of KDE3. I'm getting ready to point /etc/apt/source.list to "unstable" rather than "testing", which is what I used to get my laptop working, and in fact I'll go do that right now. Done! |
| tuxchick Oct 04, 2010 5:09 PM EDT |
Metoo, even on servers I've gone with debian testing or unstable. Hardly ever a problem, and better than dealing with the old mold that is stable. |
| Bob_Robertson Oct 04, 2010 7:30 PM EDT |
Ok, let me say I was surprised by the number of updates (~250 packages) going from Squeeze to Sid this evening. Which includes GCC4.4, with Squeeze still at 4.3. Fascinating. Riding the crest of the wave again. Wheeeeee! |
| machiner Oct 05, 2010 4:14 PM EDT |
Squeeze has GCC 4.4. |
| Steven_Rosenber Oct 05, 2010 4:52 PM EDT |
I guess the idea here is another branch of Debian that's a rolling release but isn't exactly Testing. Once we figure out exactly how this will differ from Testing, it might very well be worth a serious look. |
| bigg Oct 05, 2010 5:11 PM EDT |
> Once we figure out exactly how this will differ from Testing, it might very well be worth a serious look. The proposed distro would not allow the developers to break anything, packages wouldn't be added if they were broken, and there would be an attempt to add new packages within a reasonable time frame. With testing, anything and everything can break, there is no mandate to fix things in a reasonable time frame, and there's no need to add new packages unless the developers are in the mood. I had bad experiences with testing, for instance not being able to get updated or old versions of some apps to work (those apps were simply unavailable on testing, including one I needed for work) or being nine months behind for some packages (like GNOME). In the first case only, you can have an expectation that things will work. If you even hint that something in testing doesn't work, you get shouted down, based on the argument that you have no clue what you're talking about. That's the difference between a rolling distribution and a development distribution. (And under no circumstances should you inquire about a timetable for something in testing to work. They're touchy about those questions.) |
| Steven_Rosenber Oct 05, 2010 11:41 PM EDT |
Quoting:The proposed distro would not allow the developers to break anything I'll just let that one hang there ... |
| caitlyn Oct 06, 2010 3:12 PM EDT |
Quoting:The proposed distro would not allow the developers to break anything Really? How will this be achieved? Has this ever been achieved? Can it be achieved? I spent two and a half hours this morning dealing with developer inflicted (read self-inflicted) pain for a client. I'll believe it when I see it and I don't believe I will ever see it. |
| bigg Oct 06, 2010 3:21 PM EDT |
> How will this be achieved? Easy. In Debian testing, the developers are free to break anything they want, anytime they want, for any reason they want. It's a development distro. If you want something stable, use stable. As I interpret what they want to do, unlike stable, they would update all the packages, but like stable, the packages would be expected to work, and if they don't, they would need to be fixed. |
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