That's the ticket
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| bigg Dec 16, 2009 9:26 AM EDT |
Yeah...that's it, that's the ticket...they just now found out that Stallman doesn't like non-free software. You know, I've been on the sidelines over this whole mono thing because it doesn't seem very important. If you want to use it, use it. But when I see the astroturfers coming to LXer, I see GNOME discussing a split from GNU, it makes me wonder if maybe there isn't actually something to the arguments against mono. |
| justintime Dec 16, 2009 2:30 PM EDT |
What has Mono go to do with this? |
| number6x Dec 16, 2009 2:34 PM EDT |
So if they split from GNU will they change their name. N-gnome: Non-Gnu Object Model Environment Ugnome: Un-Gnu Object Model Environment Monoome: Mono Object Model Environment. |
| bigg Dec 16, 2009 2:44 PM EDT |
What a shock. Mention mono and along comes justintime. |
| justintime Dec 16, 2009 2:56 PM EDT |
I take it by your attack on me, that there is no connection with Mono at all and that you were just trolling. Thanks for clarifying. |
| tuxchick Dec 16, 2009 3:06 PM EDT |
Bigg, you summed up my main problems with Mono-- its supporters. The tactics we've seen so far range from trollish to just plain jerk. No straight answers to simple questions, insisting that Mono belongs in default install images at the expense of apps that are actually worth including, and generally insulting and nasty. Which tells me that Mono cannot stand on its own merits, much like anything Microsoft-ian. I like what Jeremy Allison and RMS both have to say, notice how sane they sound in comparison to the Mono fans: http://tuxdeluxe.org/node/299 "Just like installing programs to play the patented MP3 format, this is a risk some Linux users are willing to take. But this should be the users decision, not an accident of it being a default application in a distribution." http://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono "The problem is not unique to Mono; any free implementation of C# would raise the same issue. The danger is that Microsoft is probably planning to force all free C# implementations underground some day using software patents." |
| azerthoth Dec 16, 2009 3:17 PM EDT |
I agree that mono should be user discretion. That being said if there is an issue with C# in it's entirety then shouldnt the FSF have the same issue with DotGNU? |
| bigg Dec 16, 2009 3:27 PM EDT |
@az I'm in the same boat as you. I don't see how mono represents any kind of threat. OTOH it's hardly plausible that they just now found out Stallman opposes non-free software. It seems much more likely to me that it's the pushback against mono that is behind this, in particular as tuxchick says, when they are irrationally pushing mono onto users. |
| hkwint Dec 16, 2009 3:51 PM EDT |
Well, that's an interesting point you raise (in your first comment) bigg. I have always been against the .NET business model (of which Mono is a part), but probably my stance didn't change the world and apart from that I never needed any program which was dependent on Mono. Then why did I waste such an amount of effort? You learn something new almost every day I guess. |
| tuxchick Dec 16, 2009 3:59 PM EDT |
Good question, az. Wikipedia says "DotGNU is a part of the GNU Project that aims to provide a free software replacement for Microsoft's .NET Framework by Free Software Foundation. Other goals of the project are better support for non-Windows platforms and support for more processors. "The main goal of the DotGNU project code base is to provide a class library that is 100% Common Language Specification (CLS) compliant. In contrast, the main goal of another free software/open source CLI implementation, the Mono Project, is to provide 100% compatible class libraries for both the CLS specification and with the class library currently released by Microsoft for their other proprietary version of .NET, which the DotGNU project claims is not currently fully ECMA CLS compliant.[citation needed]" But if the use of C# is the problem, then...? |
| justintime Dec 16, 2009 4:15 PM EDT |
I think people are conflating 2 completely separate issues. What about this Planet GNOME debate involves Mono at all? |
| justintime Dec 16, 2009 4:19 PM EDT |
also, azerthoth: to be fair, RMS advises against the use of DotGNU too. |
| justintime Dec 16, 2009 4:40 PM EDT |
bigg: I just read a new article on LXer which is a correction to the accusation that the Planet GNOME debate was over Miguel's blog & Mono. I suspect you assumed that Sam Varghese's claim that Mono was behind all this had some validity. It would appear, however, that Mr. Varghese was spreading FUD because according to Behdad Esfabod (did I spell that right?), being on the GNOME Foundation Board and privy to the actual cause of the mailing-list thread, says that Sam Varghese claim has no bearing on the truth. |
| tracyanne Dec 16, 2009 5:45 PM EDT |
I think justintime has a very valid question. One that no one has answered but has instead done exactly what they accuse the supporters of Mono of doing. What does Mono have to do with GNOME breaking with the FSF? |
| bigg Dec 16, 2009 5:48 PM EDT |
> I suspect you assumed that Sam Varghese's claim that Mono was behind all this had some validity. No. Sam Varghese is an idiot. I wouldn't read anything he wrote unless it was plagiarized by someone else. I'm not pushing any conspiracy theories. I have no new information and don't claim to have any. I'm just saying that either (a) the individuals involved are really stupid, and it took them more than 10 years to figure out RMS is opposed to non-free software, or (b) it's not a coincidence that the war on Mono starts and a few months later there is a move to separate from GNU. |
| justintime Dec 16, 2009 7:25 PM EDT |
Well, the people pushing for a break with the FSF don't seem to have any relation to the Mono project. They certainly aren't Mono developers. Philip van Hoof appears to be associated with Tracker, Tinymail and Vala (which competes with Mono). |
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