tuxchick is sensationalist
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| ender2070 Sep 30, 2009 3:52 AM EDT |
Now that the video is out, you can prove tuxchick is wrong (who said that Mark only mentions women to insult them, and that FOSS development is without women). At roughly 20 minutes and 20 seconds in, he mentions guys AND girls contributing code. Therefor FOSS isnt void of women in his world. I watched the whole thing and I didn't find it to be that offensive compared to stuff from other sources (ie, Microsoft). Unless you want to copy insane conspiracy theorists by taking one sentance completely out of context. The terms mom and grandmother are often used by Microsoft as examples when talking about making things easier. Bill Gates had told Steve Jobs back in the 80's that the only computer he would buy his mother is a Macintosh. There is nothing sexist about pointing out the fact that there is a larger number of geeky men than geeky women. I would love for there to be more geeky women. I've only met a few geeky women in my life. The problem isn't the FOSS people being sexist. It's society that's sexist. Cultural programming (and peer pressure) often try to tell women how to act, what to wear, what hobbies to enjoy, how to smell, what guys they should date, how their men are supposed to act, etc. Just open a magazine tailored towards women such as Cosmo. Then television is there and takes the cultural programming further through stereotyping. |
| gus3 Sep 30, 2009 4:21 AM EDT |
Argh. Saying "others are more so" is just a tu quoque argument. "One sentence"? She quotes several sentences. Blaming society won't get you very far, when you remember that Mark S. isn't from the society you epitomize in your comments. |
| bigg Sep 30, 2009 6:50 AM EDT |
> At roughly 20 minutes and 20 seconds in, he mentions guys AND girls contributing code. I haven't had a chance to watch the video, so I can't comment on it, but I find your argument to be pretty weak. You found a single sentence in which he refers to guys and girls and that is proof that everything in her post is wrong? Come on. Funny thing is that in the other thread, the criticism is that "guys" always refers to everyone, it's not exclusionary in any way, and everyone knows that. So you have proven that line of reasoning to be wrong. |
| wolfen69 Sep 30, 2009 2:19 PM EDT |
Tuxchick is just creating an issue where none existed before. Run along, nothing to see here. |
| vainrveenr Sep 30, 2009 2:26 PM EDT |
Quoting:Now that the video is out, you can prove tuxchick is wrong (who said that Mark only mentions women to insult them, and that FOSS development is without women). At roughly 20 minutes and 20 seconds in, he mentions guys AND girls contributing code. Therefor FOSS isnt void of women in his world. I watched the whole thing and I didn't find it to be that offensive compared to stuff from other sources (ie, Microsoft). Unless you want to copy insane conspiracy theorists by taking one sentance completely out of context.Readers on both sides of this issue may also wish to view the complete "Cry Wolf" comment from the thread at http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/29754/ , contributed on Sep 30, 2009 1:49 PM EDT. |
| jdixon Sep 30, 2009 11:52 PM EDT |
> I've only met a few geeky women in my life. That's true for me also. Fortunately, I married one of them. :) |
| tracyanne Sep 30, 2009 11:53 PM EDT |
Quoting: I've only met a few geeky women in my life. Me too. |
| gus3 Oct 01, 2009 2:35 AM EDT |
And I'm divorced from one of them. |
| Scott_Ruecker Oct 01, 2009 7:25 AM EDT |
Ok, I have to do something about this, I have too. I have let these conversations go on too long and I have to do something about it. Should I close it? Should I just delete it and be done with it? I do enough of that. But I am uncomfortable with how these threads are going.. So my question is, is there anything positive that can be taken from these threads? And my challenge to all of you is, is there something worth keeping? There needs to be a real dialogue begun on this and I am not sure if this is it or not. What do you think I should do? |
| bigg Oct 01, 2009 8:10 AM EDT |
I make a motion that you close them. There's no useful discussion, and they are showing the nasty side of LXer. These threads are on a similar level with the comments section at DistroWatch. |
| jdixon Oct 01, 2009 9:23 AM EDT |
> Should I close it? Personally, I wouldn't, but if the discussion isn't going anywhere, closing it is always an option. > ....is there anything positive that can be taken from these threads? Except for highlighting the fact that there is a problem and why it's so hard to deal with, not really. No one is offering any solutions that can be easily applied, except for the conduct standards suggestion, and I'm not really sure how well that would work. > What do you think I should do? Unless the discussion devolves into personal attacks or a full flamefest, I don't see any need to do anything Scott. This is a problem in FOSS which will have to be dealt with. Discussions such as this are the initial stages of dealing with it. I'd rather see LXer as part of the discussion than removed from it. As I noted in one of the other threads FOSS is currently where the rest of the technical fields were around 20 years ago. It will take a lot of time and a lot of highlighting of the issue before it's even remotely resolved, and it will never go away completely. It's to TC's credit that she's trying to highlight the issue, even if she overdoes it sometimes (I'm as guilty of that as anyone. None of us are perfect). > There's no useful discussion, and they are showing the nasty side of LXer. I'd say there's little useful discussion, not none. And it seems to me that most of the nastiness doesn't come from the LXer regulars (though we appear to be able to dish it out as well as anyone else when called on, I'll admit), but rather from non-regulars showing up to comment on the specific issue. That's an Internet at large issue, not an LXer specific one. Yes, the discussion are, hmmm..., lively. But with such a contentious subject, that's largely unavoidable. I don't think that reflects badly on LXer. |
| vainrveenr Oct 01, 2009 12:17 PM EDT |
Quoting:Ok, I have to do something about this, I have too. I have let these conversations go on too long and I have to do something about it. Should I close it? Should I just delete it and be done with it? I do enough of that. But I am uncomfortable with how these threads are going..Yes, the other, parallel "conversation" at http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/29754/ seems to be stretching out quite far. Uncertain whether that parallel conversation should be closed, or deleted, or neither. One can easily gather that those who so adamantly AGREE and those who so adamantly DISAGREE with this piece's author remain unconvinced of the opinions of the opposite camp. In other words, the author's original piece and the LXer comments following this have incorporated an easily discernible POLARIZING effect throughout the conversation. This particular one here seems to be particularly even-keeled so far, though, so it would probably be best to avoid closing or deleting this at this time. Quoting:So my question is, is there anything positive that can be taken from these threads? And my challenge to all of you is, is there something worth keeping? There needs to be a real dialogue begun on this and I am not sure if this is it or not.Again, the author's original piece and the LXer comments following this in the other parallel conversation have incorporated an easily discernible polarizing effect as this conversation has progressed. Uncertain whether there is definitely for the most part "something worth keeping" specifically within the other parallel conversation. Quoting:What do you think I should do?As another commentator already pointed out above, one good option amidst this indecision is to simply just let the conversations go on, as follows Quoting:Unless the discussion devolves into personal attacks or a full flamefest, I don't see any need to do anything Scott. This is a problem in FOSS which will have to be dealt with. Discussions such as this are the initial stages of dealing with it. I'd rather see LXer as part of the discussion than removed from it.One of the likelier scenarios here is that the discussions arising from this particular author's piece will just simply die out due to attrition once there remains no further "useful discussion". Also, it is likely that this or another author will contribute similar LXer pieces such as this one in question, and such pieces will likewise result in separate and distinct LXer discussion-threads -- such threads hopefully containing very "useful" discussion! OTOH, should this or any other related discussion actually devolve into continued "personal attacks", a full flamewar, or blatantly obvious TOS violations, then certainly such a discussion should be seriously considered for termination or deletion. |
| Sander_Marechal Oct 01, 2009 6:35 PM EDT |
I'd say close the threads. It has been discussed to death and the discussion has polarised and gotten more... nasty. But please close them *properly* this time. That is: leave the threads and posts up for future reference. Just don't allow new comments to be added. Don't delete them! |
| Ridcully Oct 01, 2009 6:41 PM EDT |
At first glance the words that came immediately to my mind were: hypocrisy and chutzpah.........however Carla has just posted an article lauding Mark Shuttleworth's address...with reservations about sexism of course. ender2070's posting now has increasing relevance I think........ |
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