No thanks, sounds like lock in to me
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| r_a_trip Aug 04, 2009 6:37 AM EDT |
What Zemlin is promoting makes me shudder. What is the point of using FOSS if your machines are tied to restrictive (not to mention expensive) subscriptions. Where does the idea come from that Cell Phones are free? Last time I looked, you pay through the nose for a subscription with a "free" phone included. You pay for that phone and then you pay handsomely for the minutes you can call per month. Just compare the subscriptions with phone to the SIM only ones. Subsidized Linux machines won't fare any better. Your free netbook might seem a good deal, but what do you get? An underpowered machine which most likely will run some obscure, bastardized version of a mainstream distro (Linpus anyone?). You'll probably be stuck with whatever is installed and updates will be provided through the stale Carrier or Vendor repositories. Switching to another distro will most likely violate terms of use and when it is a Carrier subsidized netbook, the network dongle most probably will have a hideous proprietary driver which refuses to run on anything but the manure the Carrier installed as an OS. You'll pay for that cheap $ 399,00 machine. You'll be fleeced with the subscription fees. Then you'll bleed for the apps in the app store. Then there will be the stuff that is outside your contract and the premium rates on that communication will bring in some serious moolah. I hate to think what will happen when the machine breaks. I've been lucky sofar with my cell phones, but I've heard enough first hand horror stories about refusal to replace cell phones under warranty and refusal to cancel the (two year) subcription for a service the person can no longer use. I wonder how many dry but faulty netbooks will mysteriously have the warranty uncovered diagnosis "water damage" when carriers subsidize them. Then there is the problem of an unclear upgrade path. What do you do at the end of the subscription period? What if you want to switch providers? Can you bring your "old" netbook over to the new provider? Or are you stuck with the old one and just get a new one with the new subscription? What if you've run with a netbook and a "two year suscription" for over three years and the netbook breaks down? Can you buy a replacement cheap with your Carrier? Do you have to get a new service subscription with included netbook? I don't know, but it looks like serious hassle. Then there seems to be the assumtion that people only need an Internet appliance. What if you need something more than that? How does the "free PC" for everone through subsidizing model provide for that? |
| gus3 Aug 04, 2009 8:38 AM EDT |
Um, yeah. Seconded. |
| mrider Aug 04, 2009 11:00 AM EDT |
I've been lurking here for a while now, but this thread finally prompted me to sign up... Two words for you Mr. Jim Zemlin: "Cue Cat". |
| tuxchick Aug 04, 2009 11:37 AM EDT |
But r_a_trip, it, it will never work. Every provider will have a custom interface that's different from all the others, and we all know that what Linux needs is a standard uniform interface. Standard features will have to be unlocked at extra cost, and who would be gullible enough to do that? The service providers will consider the PCs to be disposable and locked to the provider, and expect customers to get new ones every time they renew or change providers. So more new stuff to learn, and everyone knows that nobody wants to learn new stuff. (do I need to use sarcasm tags?) |
| TxtEdMacs Aug 04, 2009 12:21 PM EDT |
RE: Quoting:(do I need to use sarcasm tags?)No, of course not, but what's sarcasm? Seem reasonable to me, since this is a very consistent story with Mr Zemin's take on all issues that are good for Linux*. YBT * Silly me, I just never seem to agree. |
| moopst Aug 04, 2009 12:29 PM EDT |
I must be getting old because I didn't want to learn how my new Samsung phone works after replacing the old Razor. It took a couple weeks but now I can do what I used to do with the Motorola phone - call my family or people at work and ignore the text spam. I don't know how it will play out but free disposable netbooks could really hurt Microshaft and fill up the landfills with broken junk. I hate how my phone is tied to a service provide, netbooks tied to a wireless provider would suck too. |
| tuxchick Aug 04, 2009 1:43 PM EDT |
Quoting: call my family or people at work and ignore the text spam. Doesn't it feel good to pay for the privilege! |
| garymax Aug 04, 2009 1:45 PM EDT |
I don't know where Zemlin's fascination with free PCs is coming from. He is continually talking about how the OS is irrelevant. He must be on someone's payroll (besides the Linux Foundation) to keep saying the same over and over... |
| tracyanne Aug 04, 2009 5:07 PM EDT |
Quoting:call my family or people at work and ignore the text spam. I unpay for the privilege by getting the SMS Text service removed. Doesn't cost me a cent for SMS spam after that. |
| techiem2 Aug 04, 2009 5:11 PM EDT |
I've been happy with my AT&T prepaid plan on my Freerunner. :) $25 every 90 days, $0.20/min or text (and I barely use my phone for anything anyway - the occasional call in or out from/to family/clients). Not that I'm all that thrilled to use AT&T considering, well, AT&T..., but there aren't exactly choices in GSM providers (T-Mobile doesn't cover our area). I do get a sadistic pleasure though when I consider what the iPhone users have to pay. hehehe. |
| Sander_Marechal Aug 04, 2009 6:17 PM EDT |
Quoting:Doesn't it feel good to pay for the privilege! You have to pay to receive text messages? There is spam? Thank god I'm in The Netherlands. Receiving text messages is free and there's no spam here. |
| caitlyn Aug 05, 2009 11:58 AM EDT |
The difference between a cell phone and a "free" netbook is that the netbook is still a perfectly usable mini-laptop. Netbooks are only "underpowered" for Windows. They run just fine with Linux, thankyouverymuch. So, if what moopst suggests begins to happen expect me to have a little business recycling those machines and keeping them out of the landfills. Reload OS, resell for a small fee, cheapo laptops for everyone who wants them :) Sounds good to me... Otherwise, I agree with everyone's take on Mr. Zemlin's um.... interesting... opinions. This is the spokesman for the Linux Foundation? He's the last person I'd want representing Linux to the world at large. |
| mrider Aug 05, 2009 12:51 PM EDT |
Quoting:So, if what moopst suggests begins to happen expect me to have a little business recycling those machines and keeping them out of the landfills. Reload OS, resell for a small fee, cheapo laptops for everyone who wants them :) Sounds good to me...Thank you caitlyn. That's my point exactly, the Cue Cat folks thought that they could give away a device, and then lock the users into using nothing but their software. Their business model was the classic "free razor, expensive blades" model. The problem was that everyone turned around and said "but we don't need your blades." Here we go again. Someone thinks that they can lock the public into a little box where they are forced to give the vendor money in order to just use a device. It ended badly then, and most likely it will end badly now. The only fly I can see in the ointment is DMCA might make it illegal to "jail break" these devices. |
| jdixon Aug 05, 2009 1:42 PM EDT |
> The only fly I can see in the ointment is DMCA might make it illegal to "jail break" these devices. Short of a trusted boot scenario, where only their binaries will boot the system, I don't see that happening. The precedent of "you bought it, you own it" is too well established with physical items. The DMCA really only applies to "intellectual property". |
| gus3 Aug 05, 2009 2:11 PM EDT |
Quoting:The precedent of "you bought it, you own it" is too well established with physical items. The DMCA really only applies to "intellectual property".Even that is being torn down. http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/tech/Cal-State-Student-Faces-10-Y... |
| caitlyn Aug 05, 2009 2:13 PM EDT |
Maybe I'll have to launch my netbook recycling project in Israel. (I picked on Israel because I already hold citizenship and it would be easier for me to move there than to Canada or Europe.) Seriously, the link gus3 provided is really worrisome. |
| jdixon Aug 05, 2009 2:38 PM EDT |
> Even that is being torn down. It sounds like he was modifying other people's boxes, not just his own. But yes, the anti-modding laws are troublesome, and that's one of the reasons I've never purchased a console. |
| mrider Aug 05, 2009 3:04 PM EDT |
@ gus3: That was the instance I thought of as well. In that particular case I think that the guy was arrested for the fact that he was making a product specifically meant to pirate games - as opposed to e.g. installing Linux on the console. But still, the precedent is scary. Personally, my thought would be that what this individual does should not be a problem. The owners of the modded consoles should be responsible if they actually pirate something. (On a side note, sheesh - I need to proof read better. I to edit this twice to get it to make sense. Kept leaving out words...) |
| gus3 Aug 05, 2009 3:13 PM EDT |
@jdixon: It isn't like he was modding it without the owners' permission. |
| softwarejanitor Aug 05, 2009 3:19 PM EDT |
People should keep in mind how much the copy controls in video game consoles are like the "trusted computing" initiative that Microsoft has been trying to push into x86 PC hardware for a few years now. If they are ever successful at getting all the hardware vendors to build only "trusted" hardware and this is extended so that only "trusted" software can be executed, then Linux will be forced to submit to those controls (probably not royalty free either) or potentially be made illegal under the DMCA. Now, I think its unlikely that Microsoft will succeed with this any time soon, but they and their cronies are putting a lot of muscle behind it, with the backing of the DoD, so I don't think it is completely a "tin foil" hat conspiracy issue to be concerned about it. |
| tuxchick Aug 05, 2009 3:49 PM EDT |
Quoting: It sounds like he was modifying other people's boxes, not just his own. That's still none of the business of the original manufacturer or seller. Once an item is purchased it is out of their control. Or should be, if the tech industry weren't overrun with petty controlling tyrants. If these bozos had their way there would be no second-hand market in anything, no after-market custom vehicles, you could never remodel or repair your own house, or alter your own clothing.... |
| softwarejanitor Aug 05, 2009 4:09 PM EDT |
@tuxchick Couldn't agree more. |
| tracyanne Aug 06, 2009 8:29 AM EDT |
Quoting:Some estimates indicate that 5 percent to 8 percent of all the goods and merchandise sold worldwide are counterfeit. Wow, that counterfeit stuff sure is eating the big boys lunch |
| TxtEdMacs Aug 06, 2009 1:04 PM EDT |
Let's see what we can do with the 5 to 8 percent counterfeit goods number. Ok, by currency [claimed value] price it jumps well above 50 to some saying 75 percent. Now by real value, ah much, much less. What are used discs worth? Land fill fodder. YBT |
| gus3 Aug 06, 2009 3:18 PM EDT |
Here's another "you may use this only as we say you may": http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/08/06/apple_working_... They (Apple) say they'll use it only to make sure the warranty wasn't voided. But what kind of warranty is there on the warranty-validating equipment? Pass the tin foil, please. |
| tracyanne Aug 06, 2009 5:23 PM EDT |
Just another example of how the most important member of the relationship between customer and vendor is not the customer. The customer is merely a source from which money flows, not the entity that receives service. The product the vendor provides needs only to be good enough, and if the product doesn't work as the customer expects then that's their problem. |
| mrider Aug 06, 2009 5:40 PM EDT |
Quoting:and if the product doesn't work as the customer expects then that's their problem.And if the customer complains, (s)he gets a cease and desist order if lucky, and a law suit if not. Sigh. |
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