Confused again.
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| azerthoth Dec 30, 2008 12:11 PM EDT |
Will you please stop confusing Desktop Environment / Window Manager with distributions. You are talking about Gnome, not Ubuntu. The DE does not a distribution make. The actual information, after getting past that singular glaringly large inaccuracy is good, just that the scale of the inaccuracy kind of over shadows the good bits, and yet you keep doing it. p.s. this is a double post, once here and once on the blog site, which requires moderation prior to comment posting. |
| cabreh Dec 30, 2008 2:44 PM EDT |
I guess the original poster was writing an article about Ubuntu. You do know that Ubuntu run a Gnome DE don't you. Therefore his posting is totally legitimate for people using Ubuntu. And that is what his title says. Now if you are running Kubuntu that's different and therefore a story about Ubuntu may not apply to you. But I didn't see anything about the posting being for Linux, or KDE or anything but Ubuntu users. Unless the posting was changed before I got to it. |
| InTheLoop Dec 30, 2008 6:49 PM EDT |
Azerthouth - I am not confusing DEs and distros in any way really. Every distribution does things a little differently, has different packages installed by default, different ways of installing packages, and different packages in the repositories. I wrote an article about widgets on Ubuntu. Sure, every option I mentioned here could be used on any GNOME-based distribution, but it might not be in the repositories or the version in the repositories might be buggy. Or perhaps there is some compatibility problem related to the exact software in that distribution. Even with virtual machines, I can't test software on every distribution, so (since I run Ubuntu and it is a very common distro) I wrote a guide for widgets on Ubuntu. An advanced user will have no problem translating this information to other distributions, but I have only tested this on one: Ubuntu. |
| azerthoth Dec 30, 2008 11:21 PM EDT |
*sigh* some days it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. |
| bigg Dec 31, 2008 8:02 AM EDT |
> every option I mentioned here could be used on any GNOME-based distribution, but it might not be in the repositories or the version in the repositories might be buggy I think he's referring to the fact that you can run any DE you wish on top of Ubuntu. GNOME is the default but you are in no way required to use GNOME. One of the selling points of Linux is the fact that you can easily change the DE, so the distinction does matter. |
| jdixon Dec 31, 2008 9:34 AM EDT |
> You do know that Ubuntu run a Gnome DE don't you. Ubuntu runs a Gnome DE by default. You can both install and run KDE if you wish. There is no reason to assume that any specific Ubuntu user is running Gnome as their desktop environment. |
| cabreh Jan 01, 2009 8:18 AM EDT |
@jdixon I would have thought anyone wanting to run KDE would use Kubuntu, XFCE - Xubuntu. Why would you start with Ubuntu (Gnome) and then add a different DE? |
| cabreh Jan 01, 2009 8:55 AM EDT |
PLEASE NOTE: Before flaming me (about my previous post) as if I was saying all KDE users would/should use Kubuntu I wasn't saying that. My comment was only about *buntu articles. As far as I'm concerned you are free to use any distribution you like and it's fine with me. |
| jdixon Jan 01, 2009 12:45 PM EDT |
> I would have thought anyone wanting to run KDE would use Kubuntu, XFCE - Xubuntu. A potentially unwarranted assumption. > Why would you start with Ubuntu (Gnome) and then add a different DE? Because you want to. This is Linux we're talking about here. You know, the OS that allows user freedom. And I'm pretty sure the KDE packages are in the repository (though I haven't checked to be certain). My distribution of choice includes both KDE and XFCE by default (as well as Fluxbox, Blackbox, WindowMaker, FVWM, and TWM as WM's). Gnome is an optional add-on. |
| azerthoth Jan 01, 2009 2:23 PM EDT |
On my computers, you will find e17, Fluxbox, LXDE, KDE 3.5, afterstep, and occasionally XFCE. I like variety and realize that I dont need a separate distro just because I want a separate DE. The reason for multiple versions of *buntu is much more simple, even with cramfs there is a limit to how much you can pack into a CD sized download. |
| cabreh Jan 01, 2009 2:50 PM EDT |
OK. You may want to install other Desktop Environments on your computer. But why do you assume that an article about "Ubuntu" is NOT going to be Gnome specific when talking about something for the desktop? I personally would have assumed that and not taken offense to the article in the first place. And if I see an article about adding something to Kubuntu I'm not going to get all flustered when it doesn't work on Gnome. |
| bigg Jan 01, 2009 3:25 PM EDT |
> But why do you assume that an article about "Ubuntu" is NOT going to be Gnome specific when talking about something for the desktop? Because it is wrong to mix gnome and ubuntu. That should be enough reason. As noted several times already, one of the advantages of Linux is the ability to use multiple DE's, so what is wrong with clarifying that point? Is there something to be gained from confusing newbies about something fundamental? |
| jdixon Jan 01, 2009 3:46 PM EDT |
> But why do you assume that an article about "Ubuntu" is NOT going to be Gnome specific when talking about something for the desktop? I didn't. You're the one assuming it must be Gnome specific. Neither assumption is warranted. > ...and not taken offense to the article in the first place. Who's taking offense? You asked a question, I answered it. I'm not the one who made the original comment. > And if I see an article about adding something to Kubuntu I'm not going to get all flustered when it doesn't work on Gnome. You should be. If added via the package manager, all such dependencies should be handled. Why else use a distribution which handles dependencies for you? Besides, from what I understand, Kubuntu includes most of the Gnome libraries anyway. |
| cabreh Jan 01, 2009 4:38 PM EDT |
@jdixon I'm afraid the assumption is very much warranted. Ubuntu is a Gnome specific distribution. Full stop. The vast majority of Ubuntu users would probably not be using anything other than Gnome since most of them are probably fairly new to Linux. To write an article with Ubuntu in the title and then to talk about a DE other than Gnome would be a disservice to those inexperienced users. I don't follow your second point at all. Just because I use some KDE programs on my "Ubuntu" installation doesn't mean it's a KDE DE. If I'm expecting an article about adding something to the "Kubuntu" desktop why should I be upset when it turns out to be just that. Likewise, if I was expecting an article on "Ubuntu" why should I think it was about a KDE DE unless the title stated same. I know I can add XFCE or KDE to Ubuntu. But most Ubuntu users either don't know that much, or (as in my case) don't want to do that. |
| jdixon Jan 01, 2009 8:41 PM EDT |
> I'm afraid the assumption is very much warranted. You're free to disagree. But if a single Ubuntu user is using something other than Gnome, I'm right and you're wrong. Playing the percentages is fine, but you have to be aware that's what you're doing. > Ubuntu is a Gnome specific distribution. Then why are KDE and XFCE in the repositories? Gnome oriented or even centric I would grant, but not Gnome specific. > The vast majority of Ubuntu users would probably not be using anything other than Gnome... Which has nothing to do with they matter. Any specific user may not. > If I'm expecting an article about adding something to the "Kubuntu" desktop ... You said "And if I see an article about adding something to Kubuntu". The word desktop was not used. I therefore took you as meaning the distribution. You are correct that an article about the KDE desktop may not be applicable to Gnome, but that's not what you said. > But most Ubuntu users either don't know that much, or (as in my case) don't want to do that. Agreed, but that doesn't mean that some won't do so. You can assume that 100% of Ubuntu users will always use Gnome as their Desktop Environment if you want. I'm not going to make that assumption, as it is almost certainly wrong. |
| cabreh Jan 03, 2009 3:23 PM EDT |
I say that Ubuntu (desktop version since the article was about desktop items) is Gnome specific because you cannot install it with anything other than Gnome. Yes, you can add something else later. Maybe even uninstall Gnome (not sure what would break/be uninstalled if you did this). Your whole premise of writing all articles to suit what may be only one person isn't terribly practical. If someone has replaced the motor in their Ford car with a GM engine should all Ford engine repair manual reflect this possibility? Let's be a little more realistic. I'm not trying to say all Ubuntu users will keep Gnome as their desktop. But most will and that's the crowd the article was posted for. |
| jdixon Jan 05, 2009 11:09 AM EDT |
> I say that Ubuntu (desktop version since the article was about desktop items) is Gnome specific because you cannot install it with anything other than Gnome. That doesn't make it Gnome specific. It does, as I noted above make it Gnome oriented or even Gnome centric. But specific normally has a more explicit meaning. The fact is that Ubuntu can run whatever desktop environment/window manager you are willing to take the trouble to install and configure. > Your whole premise of writing all articles to suit what may be only one person isn't terribly practical. Where did I say that? I'm merely agreeing with Azerthoth that you're not stating the case properly. The article is about Gnome and Ubuntu, not Ubuntu as a general case. Adding that point is all that it takes to make it correct. > If someone has replaced the motor in their Ford car with a GM engine should all Ford engine repair manual reflect this possibility? A very good analogy, actually. The repair manual will list in detail what engines it applies to. This story didn't do that. > Let's be a little more realistic. "Realistic" users are going to use Windows. Using Linux at all involves a certain degree of being "unrealistic". > I'm not trying to say all Ubuntu users will keep Gnome as their desktop. But most will and that's the crowd the article was posted for. Yes, it was. And if it had made that clear by simply noting that it was Gnome oriented rather than just Ubuntu oriented, I don't think Azerthoth would have had a problem. Misusing terms this way is only going to confuse users later on. Personally, I don't use Ubuntu, and I don't care if any particular Ubuntu article is well written or not. But you seemed confused by Azerthoth's point, and I tried to explain why he was correct. |
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