This is very true here in Australia
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tracyanne Dec 14, 2008 5:31 PM EDT |
It's very hard to find the Linux powered devices, and they are often more expensive than the Windows powered ones. Mind you, that fact did not stop one of our clients (of the company, where I work as a Windows programmer) from going out and choosing the Linux powered Eee 900. EDIT: typo |
| ColonelPanik Dec 14, 2008 6:05 PM EDT |
TA, Stand up and testify!
You should become a retailer of Linux systems!
No joke, you could do that! Everyone, Heads Up! A little "Linux Help" in CraigsList would be a great way to spread the love. |
| tracyanne Dec 14, 2008 6:23 PM EDT |
Quoting:You should become a retailer of Linux systems! No joke, Colonel, I should. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 15, 2008 2:45 PM EDT |
Yes, do it! The majority of LXers are very rich and will help you set started. |
| techiem2 Dec 15, 2008 3:40 PM EDT |
Quoting: The majority of LXers are very rich and will help you set started. Obviously I'm in the minority then.......did I miss the big LXer payout day? |
| tracyanne Dec 15, 2008 3:56 PM EDT |
@CP, maybe we should talk then, or are you in the minority. |
| azerthoth Dec 15, 2008 5:15 PM EDT |
techiem2 remember that one day 6 months ago when you didn't stop by, that was the day. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 15, 2008 8:52 PM EDT |
TA: Unlucky. This Open Source Retirement isn't going too well. But if you look at what azerthoth is paying for internet at his igloo you know who has the $$$$$ |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 15, 2008 10:19 PM EDT |
Quoting:Obviously I'm in the minority then.......did I miss the big LXer payout day? We had a super secret raffle for the left over treasure of One-Eyed-Willy. ;-) It was One-Eyes Willy in the Goonies wasn't it? |
| tracyanne Dec 15, 2008 10:22 PM EDT |
I dunno about where you are but over here in the land of Oz that sounds mildly obscene. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 15, 2008 10:26 PM EDT |
OMG! I didn't even think of that, honest..LOL!! Seriously though I was right about his name though.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goonies |
| NoDough Dec 16, 2008 1:42 PM EDT |
>> Yes, do it! The majority of LXers are very rich and will help you set started. Anyone care to guess the reason behind my nick? |
| ColonelPanik Dec 16, 2008 1:56 PM EDT |
ND: You are hiding the truth? |
| TxtEdMacs Dec 16, 2008 3:13 PM EDT |
Yeah, he is tired of people mixing him up Pillsbury Dough Boy, despite the physical resemblence. |
| NoDough Dec 16, 2008 4:23 PM EDT |
Ouch, Txt. That hurt. You should be more careful with your undeniable truths.... errrr... affronts. |
| TxtEdMacs Dec 16, 2008 7:50 PM EDT |
N_D_, WARNING: Facts are subservient to good story (fiction). In most instances, unless you see an attempt to attach a serious flag / tag / whatever pay no heed. Most of my observations are both fact and opinion free. In your case, it was all made up, everything fit and it was just the flow of words that ruled. Moreover, I though it was time for some gravity defying stunts (levity, for those not lacking language impairment that I am afflicted). Get the drift? Six shooters at noon? I will be there. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 17, 2008 2:17 PM EDT |
TEM: You said: "...both fact and opinion free." That is what LXer is all about. Its opinions for free and free of facts. |
| gus3 Dec 17, 2008 2:33 PM EDT |
CP: Did you forget a /sarc tag, or is your comment as much an insult as it appears? |
| caitlyn Dec 17, 2008 2:52 PM EDT |
I'm going back to the original topic. I hope that's OK... Here in the U.S. the discount big box retailer Target is selling the Asus Eee PC 900a in their stores. The only offer the Linux version. There is no Windows to be found except on their website. Windows is special order only. So much for the claims made in the article... Other stores sell Linux netbooks as well. The original claim of high return rate was made by an MSI exec before the Wind was even available with Linux based on conversations he had with other execs. It wasn't based in any tangible or measurable facts or figures. While I do expect the return rate is higher the original claims were exaggerated but picked up by those who have a pro-Microsoft agenda. For most netbook users the box is an appliance. I suspect most could care less if it's Windows or Linux so long as they can surf the web, watch YouTube videos, check e-mail, chat, listen to mp3s and produce and read Microsoft Office documents. The better Linux versions do all of the above without fuss. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 17, 2008 4:52 PM EDT |
g3, You haven't even posted in this thread so you cannot be insulted. I don't think that I could insult the folks here. |
| tracyanne Dec 17, 2008 4:53 PM EDT |
@caitlyn Quoting:For most netbook users the box is an appliance. I suspect most could care less if it's Windows or Linux so long as they can surf the web, watch YouTube videos, check e-mail, chat, listen to mp3s and produce and read Microsoft Office documents. The better Linux versions do all of the above without fuss. Exactly, and for the person I mentioned at the start, it comes already configured to do all of that, no extra expense required, no additional software needed. Mostly the Microsoft Shills make a big deal about the fact that you can't download and install arbitrary software, and that many net books, the Xandros powered one in particular, don't make installing new software an option. But if you have all the software you need, and regular updates for same, what point is there in installing extra software? Most of the complaints about the Linux powered netbooks are slight of hand, designed to make it appear that the really bad points about owning the other operating system powered device are desirable. It's a matter of marketing. No one is actually marketing the really great points about the Linux powered net book - the fact that you are getting a fully functioning fully usable system, that requires no additional work on your part to make it function as advertised, and that requires no additional maintenance from you once you start using it. It was these factors that the person mentioned above like about the Eee 700, and it was those factors that drew him to the Eee900. It is exactly those factors that the Little Old Ladies, I deal, with like about the Linux systems I sell them. |
| TxtEdMacs Dec 17, 2008 6:15 PM EDT |
Gus, Don't worry, the Colonel needed no tags. He was just describing most of the commenting threads. Txt. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 18, 2008 11:11 AM EDT |
TEM: Thanks.
Colonel = /sarcasm I have met a number of people who have purchased a "Linux" computer from the big D or a netbook and they are a little put off (p***ed off) because it is different. I guess going to forums for help is a geek thing? If those OEMs had asked the Linux Community to lend a hand we could have been making huge gains in usership and would not have to read these kind of silly articles. |
| caitlyn Dec 18, 2008 7:09 PM EDT |
FWIW, I just ordered my netbook this morning from J&R Music World in New York via Amazon.com. I ended up choosing a Sylvania gNote Meso rather than the Asus EeePC I originally had in mind. What I wanted in a netbook isn't what everyone (or even most people) want, but here is how I made my choice: 1. I wanted a Linux box. Even if I dump the stock distro I know it should work properly under Linux. I also help the mythical Linux market share and don't send money to Redmond that way. Here in the U.S. Linux boxes are always equal to or less expensive than their Windows cousins and saving money is a good thing. 2. I wanted tiny. I am replacing an old Toshiba Libretto with a 7" screen. I wanted something similar. The version of the gNote I bought has a 7" screen as well and weighs in at just 1.9 lbs which is actually slightly lighter than my Libretto. 3. More memory and better processor were more important to me than type or size of storage. Yes, SSDs are cool and some are faster than traditional hard drives but others just aren't. SSDs are also silent. I ended up going with a conventional hard drive. Faster processor and more memory would definitely improve performance. 4. I wanted a model known to work well with multiple Linux distros. The gNote is offered with gOS or Ubuntu Netbook Remix depending on model. I researched it and found out it's a repackaged and rebranded MSI Wind. Those come with Mandriva. If it can run those three distros it can probably run many more. 5. I had a budget of US $300. What made my choice pretty easy: 1. An EeePC with a 7" screen is only offered with 512MB of RAM. It's last year's model. It's underclocked to 600MHz. If I went the Eee route it was going to be a bigger box with an 8.9" screen. 2. Price. I got a machine with 1 GB RAM and a 1.2GHz Via C7 processor for US $279. I simply couldn't match that with another brand. The Sylvania was the most bang for the buck. Mine is coming with gOS (won't stay long) and a 30GB hard drive which is adequate for my needs. I have external USB storage and a USB DVD burner I can use with it if needed. I read the reviews. Most were really positive. The ones by people who clearly knew what they were doing were positive. The negative ones were mostly like the ones ColonelPanik describes: people who didn't know Linux and got lost. Early models also had issues with limited wireless range that was solved by upgrading gOS or installing Windows, which tells me it was an issue with gOS 2.0, not the hardware. I found a total of two people who had hardware issues, one of whom got an immediate exchange from J&R. Good enough. So... one more Linux sale :) |
| techiem2 Dec 18, 2008 8:14 PM EDT |
Quoting: Mostly the Microsoft Shills make a big deal about the fact that you can't download and install arbitrary software, and that many net books, the Xandros powered one in particular, don't make installing new software an option. But if you have all the software you need, and regular updates for same, what point is there in installing extra software? Yeah...cuz your average users all have USB CD-ROMs lying around to install all those Windows apps from...or have network copies of the disks.....uh..huh.... |
| ColonelPanik Dec 18, 2008 8:43 PM EDT |
Caitlyn: Let us know when you have used it. This netbook stuff looks like fun. |
| caitlyn Dec 18, 2008 8:54 PM EDT |
Will do. |
| alc Dec 20, 2008 7:27 PM EDT |
I'd be interested how it works out for you also.My wife thinks she may want one. |
| azerthoth Dec 20, 2008 8:56 PM EDT |
I'm almost willing to try again. The OLPC being a disappointment as it was shipped. Works OK with Ubuntu on it and functioning as a do not touch print/file server, but otherwise, it's a lime green brick. |
| jdixon Dec 20, 2008 11:20 PM EDT |
Meredith still likes her Eee very much, and this is the original 7" version. See http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/103570/ for her review. I think the 9" versions would be even better for most people. A quick check reveals that Mwave still has the 16GB Linux version for $349: http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA25228 |
| caitlyn Dec 21, 2008 2:11 AM EDT |
azerthoth: What was wrong with the OLPC? One correction to my post above. The specs I posted are correct but the model isn't. Amazon doesn't know the difference between the Sylvania g and the Sylvania g Meso. Mine is a plain g (original version, the one released during the summer). The g Meso has the 8.9" display and weighs 2.2 lbs. Mine has a 7" display and weighs 1.9 lbs. You know what's crazy? The original model has a 1GB of RAM. The newer, supposed to be snazzier model has 512MB unless you buy a much more expensive, upgraded one. One other interesting note: The model I have on the way is only offered with Linux. There is no Windows version. The Meso (and the forthcoming Magni) offer either Linux or Windows XP. Yep, they offer XP on the version with just 512MB of RAM. It doesn't make sense to me. Details on the models are at: http://www.sylvaniacomputers.com UPS says mine will be here on Monday. :) |
| alc Dec 21, 2008 7:25 AM EDT |
There is a $329 model with an 80 gig HD @ http://www.justnetbooks.com/shop.php?c=Sylvania7&x=Sylvania&... |
| caitlyn Dec 21, 2008 2:20 PM EDT |
@alc: That's the Meso. It comes with 512MB of RAM. I valued the extra memory over the bigger hard drive. I also wanted the 7" screen and the lighter weight and smaller size. The Meso has an 8.9" screen and is larger. IME the difference in performance, particularly with multimedia apps, can be huge between 512MB and 1GB of RAM. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 21, 2008 3:25 PM EDT |
The OLPC does what it was made to do! There may not have been a "netbook" market if it wasn't for the OLPC XO. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 21, 2008 10:25 PM EDT |
Ok, I just can't keep my mouth shut any longer. This conversation is killing the cat that has my tongue. ;-) I have been in contact with several people from the OLPC for a little while now and I was offered a new XO to borrow, use and do my own review of it. I have only seen XO's at the trade shows I have attended and only had been able to stand in front of one for a moment of two. Now I will have a whole lot more than that... I have a lot of ideas I want to explore with it and it will be nice to have the time to try them out. Don't worry, I have zero intention of running or reviewing how XP runs on it. I keep hearing about all the cool stuff Sugar can do and I really want to check it out. Regardless of how we all feel about people being able to order XO's with Windows on them; the purpose of the project is a noble one. Being able to make a laptop that can do the things it can do for such a small price has as others have pointed out, impacted the laptop market in a big way already. |
| tracyanne Dec 22, 2008 8:04 AM EDT |
@CP, we're not quite ready, but... http://www.feral-penguin.com.au/ |
| ColonelPanik Dec 22, 2008 1:10 PM EDT |
tracyanne: Wow. Nobody ever listened to me before, sure hope this isn't another
one of my dumb ideas? You have partnered with a good outfit, you have a way cool name. Best of luck to ya. |
| tracyanne Dec 22, 2008 4:22 PM EDT |
We've been working on this for quite a while. |
| caitlyn Dec 23, 2008 2:59 AM EDT |
My Sylvania g netbook arrived today. First impression: a very cool little box. Surprisingly fast, very lightweight, not quite as small as I'd pictured it, a keyboard I can actually touch type on, and generally excellent ergonomics. The widescreen aspect ratio means that even though it's called a 7" display it's actually a fair amount bigger (as in wider) than the display on my old Libretto. Text at the default 800x480 resolution is very easy to read the way most apps are setup out of the box. I'm not at all sure about gOS. I'm not into Google Gadgets and otherwise it's an Ubuntu 8.04.1 rehash. If I want to run Ubuntu I'll run Ubuntu or more likely Xubuntu. I plan on trying a few other distros on it. It's got an old fashioned conventional hard drive so there's enough room to dual boot for a while. It also has a slot for various memory card type thingies (like SD cards) and USB ports so I can add SSD storage as well. I can boot from pretty much anywhere (USB, internal hard drive, memory card slot) which makes it awfully easy to try out as many distros as I want. One nice touch lacking on some of the more popular netbook models is that the battery isn't integrated into the unit. It's removable and easy to swap just like most larger laptops. A spare battery is now top of my wish list. Oh, and it has a DVI port for external video and comes with a DVI to VGA adapter. I've used similar adapters (opposite genders) to allow a nice SGI or Sun monitor to work with a PC. I wonder if a really nice, big SGI monitor would be plug and play with this thing :) |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 23, 2008 3:55 AM EDT |
Quoting:Text at the default 800x480 resolution is very easy to read the way most apps are setup out of the box. Only 480 high? That would make me feel cramped. My boss gave me a 21" 1440x900 widescreen display once. I used it for an hour and went back to my 19" 1280x1024 display just to get the extra 124 pixels vertical resolution. Perhaps it's because I am a programmer though. If I have the money I'd love to buy a HD monotor (1920x1280) and attach it rotated so that I have 1280 horizontal resolution and 1920 vertical. I love seeing a good chunk of a website or a large amount of code in a single view. |
| jdixon Dec 23, 2008 10:56 AM EDT |
> Only 480 high? That's the internal display, If it's llike the Eee (it sounds like the same display as the original Eee), it can supposedly do 1600 x1280 with an external monitor. |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 23, 2008 11:25 AM EDT |
Quoting:That's the internal display I know. I simply prefer more. Even my normal laptop has 1050 vertical resolution (not a typo, it's an odd-sized 1440x1050). I've seen netbooks with 1280x800. That would probably be the minimal height I'd find workable. |
| caitlyn Dec 23, 2008 6:30 PM EDT |
The Toshiba Libretto U205 supports 1600x1280 on a 7" display. I can't imagine looking at that for very long. Yes, the Sylvania g supports 1600x1280 externally. I don't remember what the Eee uses for a video chipset but this thing uses a Via UniChrome Pro CX700M2. If you have the latest Via drivers (now Open Source) it should work well with any distro. The latest openChrome drivers should work as well but I haven't tried that. The big issue with older drivers is broken 3D acceleration. Anyway, day two with the machine and I'm really happy with it. gOS definitely has to go, though. |
| alc Dec 23, 2008 8:14 PM EDT |
"Anyway, day two with the machine and I'm really happy with it. gOS definitely has to go, though." Would you say the build quality is good overall?I'm still looking at the one I linked to http://www.justnetbooks.com/shop.php?c=Sylvania7&x=Sylvania&... It has 1 gig of ram and comes with Ubuntu.I'm a KDE person,but it's for my wife and she's willing to put up with something other than KDE. |
| caitlyn Dec 24, 2008 3:28 AM EDT |
@alc: Yes, I am very impressed with the build quality. From what I understand the g Meso is a rebranded MSI Wind so it's actually manufactured by a different company than the one I have so YMMV. Nice price reduction on the black g Meso there. At that price I probably would have bought a Meso instead of an original g. What I don't get is the $80 price difference between a black Meso and a pink Meso. What gives? To add KDE to an Ubuntu install just grab the kubuntu-desktop metapackage. Then you can enjoy KDE and your wife can use GNOME :) After all, you will have a decent sized hard drive. FWIW, I am now running Xubuntu 8.10 (I like Xfce) and everything seems to work properly. Changing distros on this machine is no big deal. The hardware seems to be very well supported. I may try to dual boot with Vector Linux 6 rc1 next :) |
| alc Dec 24, 2008 9:08 AM EDT |
A few days ago it was $329.This morning it was $289.At that price I had to do my part for the economy.It should be here in 3-5 days.The price difference for the colors was strange. |
| caitlyn Dec 24, 2008 10:58 AM EDT |
alc: Great! Let us know how the Meso works out for you. UPDATE: Xubuntu did not quite work out of the box once I really got to using it more. Sound doesn't work at the moment. Still working on that one since it does detect my sound card correctly. (Oh, and no, it's not just muted.) 3D graphics acceleration does work but only after downloading and installing the latest driver from Via. |
| azerthoth Dec 24, 2008 12:21 PM EDT |
caitlyn you should have used Slack or Gentoo. /sarcasm |
| caitlyn Dec 24, 2008 6:05 PM EDT |
LOL. I bet I could make Slackware 12.2 play nicely on this box. I will be trying out Vector Linux 6.0rc1 which is at least derived from Slack :) OK... here are my final thoughts on this: The Sylvania g is basically an upgraded Everex Cloudbook. The Everex model was reviled a year ago for good reason: gOS 2.0 had crappy support for it and wasn't optimized at all. With only 512MB RAM in the Cloudbook and the bloated distro the thing was sluggish. What a difference a year makes... First, the Sylvania model has more memory (not even offered by Everex) and a newer rev of the graphics chipset. Second, support and drivers have improved tremendously. The remaining problem is that gOS 2.92 (which comes installed) is a beta with some issues and it doesn't have the latest drivers. gOS 3.0 is available on Sylvania's website and corrects most of the issues. The lastest Via drivers finish the job. Now everything works and is snappy. Problem #2: You still need an external CD-ROM drive to install the latest gOS. How many netbook buyers have that? I do so it was no big deal for me. Next, gOS hides Synaptic, a terminal, anything to do with upgrading or installing software. Edit the .desktop files and everything reappears in the menu where it belongs. Updates come directly from the Ubuntu repositories. gOS has none of it's own. All that gee-whiz Google integration and the MacOS look gOS is supposed to be good for is just wbar and shortcuts to Firefox specifying a web page. Feh! gOS 3.0 is Ubuntu Hardy with a green theme and a bunch of stuff hidden, nothing more. Oh, and you still need to get the latest Via driver from Via, even after the upgrade. So... for hardware Sylvania gets a 5 out of 5. Folks claim the Via chip is way slower than an Intel but I have a machine with a 1GHz Celeron and I don't see it. Low power consumption == long battery life. This thing really does get close to 4 hours. You can't have it both ways. The look and feel is really solid. The keyboard is big enough to type on. People complain that a unit this size could have an 8.9" screen. It could, but without the frame around the LCD it wouldn't be nearly as sturdy. No screen flex on this unit. I find the 7" screen to be just fine for me. For Software Sylvania gets a 2 out of 5 at best. Windows open up that are bigger than the screen size. That's just sloppy configuration. A beta OS? The final has been out for months. It should be installed on all new units along with drivers that really work. With the original beta wireless drivers my range was much less than the updated ones in gOS 3.0 or Ubuntu 8.10. Bottom line: Great inexpensive machine if you know Linux and have a day or so to tinker. Not so great if you have to use it the way it's configured out of the box. LXer folks will probably love it. Joe and Jane user will probably hate it. OK, I'm done reviewing it for the folks here who asked. I'll polish up a more through review and post it on O'Reilly in a few days which probably means Scott will post it here :) |
| tracyanne Dec 27, 2008 6:31 PM EDT |
@CP if you do a google search for "Computers Desktop Notebook Laptop Linux" and select results from Australia Feral Penguin Computers comes up on the first page of search results, and I haven't even tried to optimise the site yet. |
| tuxchick Dec 27, 2008 7:15 PM EDT |
Remind me again why anyone who values Free software would want anything to do with gOS? They hide their Linux underpinnings, hide all the Linux goodness and cover it with their own branded gunk, and don't even show anything Linux-y running on it: http://www.thinkgos.com/ Now they're calling it Cloud, which sounds like it's really Splashtop, or whatever they're calling the Linux pre-boot environment these days. Quoting: FAQ & Help We invite everyone to join our Google Group to receive technical answers regarding all gOS software. Uh huh. One more barrier. I didn't think much of it the first time I looked at it, and I'm still having a hard time finding reasons to like it. To me it looks like yet another entry in the Exploit Linux category. |
| caitlyn Dec 28, 2008 12:44 AM EDT |
tucxhick hits the nail on the head. gOS isn't an OS, it's a marketing gimmick. It's Ubuntu with the ability to update and secure it hidden. It's a green theme. It's Firefox shortcuts. There is no app, no code, no tools, nothing at all written by GoodOS (the company) and virtually no support. Best yet... if you do all the updates from the Ubuntu repository it won't survive a reboot. They did something to it that makes it break. So you get to leave it nice and insecure with vulnerabilities. Oh, and yeah, I checked out their support group. It's a really bad joke. What I bought was hardware. A really nice itty bitty laptop. I didn't have to pay a dime to Microsoft. In the past I paid for a Windows license I wouldn't use because I had little choice if I wanted something reasonably priced off the shelf. Heck, I may have even contributed to Linux' so-called market share this time. In the end I did what I always do: I wiped the hard drive and installed something I like. |
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