Real friends abound, but not always easy to see.
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| dinotrac Oct 22, 2008 9:43 AM EDT |
First and foremost: A big hearty YOWZAH, YOWZAH, YOWZAH!!! to your mention of Ken et al, and the good work they do actually pushing free software forward. Free software has a small army of friends doing what we (not they) can to help. In non-corporate environments, we simply choose to use free software. That may mean spending money with a service provider who provides Linux platforms. It may mean buying hardware that works well with Linux. At the very least, it's likely to mean not buying Windows. Some of us employ free software in corporate settings. You'd be surprised at the difference from ten years ago. Back then, Linux was most likely to be done on the sly, instigated by a technician. Now -- right out in the open, but...free software still needs friends who care enough to work for it. For example: I'm presently on assignment in a large corporate client who has (to my amazement) more than 100 Linux servers in its Unix farm. And yet, the corporate mindset sometimes needs correcting. I needed a database to help me analyze a pile of data about who owned what where in the company's server infrastructure. I requested MySQL for our Linux box and was told that, for our kind of use, standards dictated that we use Access!!!!!!!!! I'll admit to calling the review board a few choice names -- not to their faces -- but, the key is, working through the system to make our case, we got the software. It doesn't always work -- at a prior client, I put together a document conversion engine using headless OpenOffice that worked like a champ (for our purposes) and cost -- well, nothing. It dot cast aside in favor of an expensive -- and slow -- Windows based solution that was corporate standard. Sigh. You've got to make the effort, though, because you won't lose them all. Sometimes, even when losing, you demonstrate that the free solution will work well. That makes an impression, even if it doesn't get immediate results. Other, more subtle things will happen as well -- even among technical people who should know better. Long-time Solaris and AIX admins will be quick to accept that Linux is good for "a lot of things", but can be worse enemies than the pointy haired management types. When Linux doesn't work in the same way as their platform of choice, Linux will always be wrong. They may even give up on doing something with Linux that it's perfectly wonderful at, just because they're too lazy (or parochial) to learn/accept the Linux way. Good Linux friends show them the way when telling them the way won't work. It's still a win some/lose some game, but failing to take the effort is a win none/lose all game. Just remember -- Every time you demonstrate that a free software solution will work well, you help the cause, even if you lose the battle at hand. You'll make an impression on somebody, and you'll enhance your experience. |
| techiem2 Oct 22, 2008 10:36 AM EDT |
Well said, Good Sir. |
| rijelkentaurus Oct 22, 2008 10:53 AM EDT |
Yes, well said, indeed. |
| herzeleid Oct 22, 2008 1:06 PM EDT |
@dinotrac - Kudos, kudos. well said. @carla - I agree that most suits are not to be trusted, and giant faceless corporations even less so - but you mentioned amazon.com as being one of those companies who "profit handsomely" from linux while being "allergic to saying the name" of linux. I have to say, amazon is better than most: They sell linux-friendly, drm-free mp3s on their music store, they provide a native linux music store application, and their site has always been linux friendly. so they deserve some credit. |
| kingttx Oct 22, 2008 1:13 PM EDT |
Let's not forget the intent of Ken's original point - we all sincerely appreciate what those companies have returned in code and other support. What is a bit irritating is they say they don't advertise components of a solution, yet you'll see "We recommend Windows Blah" all over their websites. Don't advertise components, eh? I think we're simply asking for a little boost, even if it is some grant for local Linux businesses to advertise. |
| ColonelPanik Oct 22, 2008 1:38 PM EDT |
TC, Nice article. Keep writing.
Dino, Thank you! I guess you should keep writing to. Linux, in its various guises is community. Not suites. If the suites want to help, on the communities terms, great. If not, they should sit down, not on panels but in their holy boardrooms. |
| jdixon Oct 22, 2008 1:54 PM EDT |
As I noted on Ken's blog, the they're making a financial decision, and the solution is to remind them that the decision has financial repurcussions. Don't buy from IBM/Lenovo. Don't buy from HP. Tell Red Hat and Novell that when they offer a supported consumer desktop edition of their software you'll be happy to recommend/use them, but until then you'll stick to Debian/Ubuntu/Mandriva/Slackware/whatever. In the meantime, support companies like ZaReason, System76, Isaac & Young, et.al; with you money when possible, with your recommendations when not. A list of Linux supporting companies can be found right here on the right hand menu bar of LXer. And, when you do purchase from one of these companies, make sure that HP, Lenovo, and company know you did so; and that they lost a sale because they don't advertise Linux. |
| NoDough Oct 23, 2008 8:56 AM EDT |
Excellent points, all.Quoting:...you'll see "We recommend Windows Blah" all over their websites.Remember that this is a contract stipulation being forced on them by a convicted monopolist. The best way to defeat it is to break that monopoly. It's also prudent to avoid painting all businesses with a wide brush. There are many large corporations that have open source programmers on their payroll. This represents a huge investment in FOSS. Linux wouldn't be what it is today without that investment. To deride such corporations on a public website gives people with pointy hair and suits fodder to seek the termination of FOSS programs. |
| helios Oct 23, 2008 7:55 PM EDT |
I try to make it a habit to not post in threads where anything I've done or said is being openly discussed, but I have to bring it back to where it started. To deride such corporations on a public website....... I called out IBM for their hypocrisy. I attended the Summit for just that purpose. Not to call them out but to ask that particular panel when they were going to contribute to the Linux Desktop by supporting public advertising of that desktop. Key members of this community knew it ahead of time. That's all. That was my point, that was my goal and I got it done. I fully expected this sort of answer but never thought for moment that IBM especially would be so open about their stance. I simply waited until now on the advice of our Attorney. I've done nothing to bring civil litigation against us, our corporation in formation or the Charity being formed at this time. Frye said that he thought I should be pointing my question toward companies that make a direct profit from Linux. Like IBM does not? They are a first-tier profiteer from the Linux Kernel. As they may be also a contributor, that is good...and again, who is the first-tier benefactor of that contribution? It's rhetorical.... The "we provide solutions, not systems" was just icing on the cake. The answer given by the Young Lady representing Motorola should be a nasty cold bucket of water in your face. Each and every one of you who advocate Linux as a viable desktop solution to Microsoft Windows. In a nutshell, she said so much as... "Linux!!!" Know thy place...unrecognized, indistinguishable and front-loaded for profit for us." (quotes are supposed, not literal) I thought Frye quicker on his feet than that. What you saw was a dodge, pure and simple. But to my point...I did not do this to make any Corporation, company or entity look bad. They did that hard work for me I did it to show "the Community", once and for all, that Corporate Linux is not going to do anything to advertise the Linux Desktop. Unfortunately, neither is the community...we've already talked. h |
| jdixon Oct 23, 2008 8:35 PM EDT |
> Unfortunately, neither is the community...we've already talked. Ken, let me ask you a simple question. When it comes down to it, which is more important: Advertizing Linux or Komputers4Kids. The reason I ask is simple, I only have enough spare money to put to one such endeavor, not two. My time is in even shorter supply. :( I do what I can: Installing Linux for those willing to try it, handing out live CD's to those interested, and generally explaining what Linux is and what it can do to those willing to listen. It's nowhere near enough, but it IS the best I can do. I won't argue that advertizing Linux is unnecessary, or pretend that it would be a bad thing. But if forced to decide between the two choices above, I think you can easily guess which I think is the more important. |
| tuxchick Oct 23, 2008 9:27 PM EDT |
I appeciate Ken smoking out the hypocrisy. An awful lot of Linux fans see IBM as a big hero, and think it's cool as more Tier 1 corporations leap on the Linux bandwagon-- HP, Dell, etc. Well they're not heroes. They're opportunists, and the nanosecond they see an advantage to dropping Linux like it's toxic waste they will. Of course their considerable resources, support, talent, and contributions are appreciated and welcome-- let's just not have any illusions about why they're riding the Linux bandwagon at all, and keep in mind it's the GPL that keeps them honest. It's like they were dragged to the party kicking and screaming, and acting like they were being dunked in boiling oil. Now that they're here, they're skulking behind the potted trees hoping no one recognizes them. They're still doing the "OMG Sauron will be displeased" slink. It's disgraceful that corporations of that size and reach should be scared of Redmond. Linux and FOSS are doing far more for these corporate giants than they are doing for Linux-- because of FOSS there is a path out of Sauron's realm, and these titans of industry are ascending it. Slowly and timidly to be sure, but they're on their way. A little recognition isn't too much to ask. |
| dinotrac Oct 24, 2008 12:11 AM EDT |
TC - I think heroic IBM is the natural result of evil Microsoft. Too many people want to look at good guys/bad guys and friends/enemies when the real question is all about business. Businesses aren't all the same and, yes, IBM is a much better and more ethical company than Microsoft, but, in the end, business is business. Not as exciting as good v. evil, but a lot more of this world. |
| NoDough Oct 24, 2008 10:55 AM EDT |
Yep, we're all saying the same thing, but viewing it from slightly differing perspectives.Quoting:...in the end, business is business.Exactly. And business exists to make money. That is their be all and end all. When there is a return on investment (ROI) for advertising Linux, then they will advertise. Until then, they will not. Expect no charity from them, and be thankful that they make contributions to FOSS (which, of course, they do for ROI.) If you want Linux to be advertised then form or support a non-profit whose mission it is to do so, or figure out a way that businesses can generate ROI from that advertising. . |
| ColonelPanik Oct 24, 2008 10:58 AM EDT |
Quoted:
...in the end, business is business. Yes, business will always get you in the end. |
| Sander_Marechal Oct 24, 2008 11:14 AM EDT |
Quoting:...or figure out a way that businesses can generate ROI from that advertising. But there is. That's the problem. Us FOSS folk see it as clear as day: No more blood money to Redmond and a big boost to IT as a whole, which in turn will lead to more money for the corporations. The real problem is that it would probably mean a short-term loss in exchange for bigger profits in the future. Businesses these days are almost entirely run on the short-term view. That's what management bonuses are based on. That's what shareholders want to see. Instant gratification and get-rich-quick. The very same attitude that brought us the economic crisis we're in. |
| NoDough Oct 24, 2008 12:06 PM EDT |
Quoting:Businesses these days are almost entirely run on the short-term view.Indeed. |
| helios Oct 24, 2008 12:57 PM EDT |
JD - they are tied at the hip. Now, the reason I started HeliOS Solutions was so that I Could fund Helios Project (formally K4K). Yes, I do come to the community from time to time but I try to keep it way, way every now and then. Your contributions to what we do have been more than generous and I can always use your help...or anyone elses for that matter, but what people don't see is the 2000 - 3000 dollars in HeliOS Solutions Income that does directly to building the machines we place. Getting the word our is omportaqnt...getting the generation coming up usiing Linux is critical...and yes, both efforts are tied at the hip. Once we can get some media advertising for HS, I might just be able to do it full time but for now, I am extremely happy to be a TSA-certified airline Line Hauler and build computers as time allows. By the way, Time allowed the month of October so far to builld and place 19 computers. The income came largely from Linux installs from HeliOS Solutions. 19 calls I would have never been given had not Sander built us such a stellar website. Someone from this group emailed me just minutes ago and thanked me for what I do. Thanks...no, thank you for giving me the means, support and encouragement to do it. btw Carla, I'm in Denver waiting on my connection. Be in Your Fine State in an hour. h |
| jdixon Oct 24, 2008 5:37 PM EDT |
> ...they are tied at the hip. Understood Ken, but I still can't afford to fund both. My contributions to your charity have been little enough as is. :( |
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