So glad not to be alone.
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| dinotrac Sep 06, 2008 11:05 AM EDT |
Ubuntu drives me out of my mind, although it is now, specifically, mythbuntu. I imagine it's very nice for most users, but, for me, one thing or another tends to not work well if it works at all. And then, when I go in to make things right, Ubuntu always seems to have a surprise waiting for me, making a good install more difficult to achieve than with my main workstation's opensuse. As it is, I'm scotching the kubuntu on my wife's machine, in favor of -- I don't know what, but it has to be a good KDE distro. I'll let the mythbuntu hang on a bit. It's got some nice bits that even out with the aggravation, although -- why do it's tools refuse to let you skip the mythfilldatabase without also canceling startup of mythbackend?? A slave installation doesn't require -- actually, I think is supposed to not have -- a mythfilldatabase run. |
| gus3 Sep 06, 2008 12:06 PM EDT |
@dino: Slackware. A lean and mean KDE machine. |
| dinotrac Sep 06, 2008 12:12 PM EDT |
gus3 - Slackware -- for my wife? Not so sure about that... |
| gus3 Sep 06, 2008 12:36 PM EDT |
Why not? If the hardware is fairly recent (i.e. no ISA/EISA bus), hardware detection will be a snap. Configuring X to use a hardware-specific driver is the only task left to the administrator. It's also a lot leaner on the disk space. FWIW, my completely computer-illiterate dad uses Slackware on his laptop. |
| jhansonxi Sep 06, 2008 1:06 PM EDT |
Mandriva has a pro-KDE history. The 2008 versions are much better than 2007. |
| billbar Sep 06, 2008 2:45 PM EDT |
Haven't voiced a lot of complaints publicly but, privately I've done a lot of muttering. It's not hard to understand xbuntu's popularity because it installs in a snap and it was the first to detect my wireless out of the box. (In the last six months a couple more have learned to do that). But, getting under the hood is frustating and all I'm trying to do is change the screen resolution and move files from Windows to a Linux folder. I know, I know, this is doable and I've been to the forums (which lead to their own frustration), but that's not the point. I like the root/user concept and the KDE superuser file manager. That was simple!. And I have enough complexes in my own personal productivity without fighting the OS. I've installed latest versions of Fedora, Mandriva, Suse, PCLinux, Arch, Vector, all of which have different needs for exploring the forums. Spent too many years in the trenches, now just want to run across open fields. |
| Scott_Ruecker Sep 06, 2008 2:51 PM EDT |
I didn't stay with Ubuntu for one simple reason, no true root profile. I tried and tried to get to do it, got tired of fighting it and moved on. |
| rijelkentaurus Sep 06, 2008 3:14 PM EDT |
@Dino, Mandriva, IMO, is the way to go for a KDE distro. The RC1 of the 2009.0 version is pretty good. I'd give it a whirl. 2008.1 is a sure winner. |
| zenarcher Sep 06, 2008 3:24 PM EDT |
I'll sure throw in a vote for Mandriva, as well. I run 2008.1 with the KDE desktop here...and have 2009 RC1 on my test machine right now, with only a couple of minor problems. Mandriva 2008.1 just installs with no problems...all hardware works for me right off...including wireless, multifunction printer...everything. I can pretty much say the same for Mandriva 2008, as well. |
| jdixon Sep 06, 2008 4:43 PM EDT |
Dino: From other folks' recommendations (not just the one here), I'd say give Mandriva a try. You could also take a look at Mepis or Mint, but Mandriva is a more mainstream distribution than either of those and is more likely to have everything you need. If you want to give you wife a preconfigured machine which only gets security updates, then Slackware is a good option. If she likes to install and uninstall software on a regular basis, then it's probably not. Is there a reason you don't give her OpenSuSE, since you're already used to it? I thought it included KDE too. |
| herzeleid Sep 06, 2008 4:56 PM EDT |
In my own experience, suse has always been a good kde distro. I'm running suse 11.0 with kde 3.5 and it's surprisingly civilized. |
| tracyanne Sep 06, 2008 5:56 PM EDT |
I've recently tested Mandriva 2009.0 Beta 2 on a new MacBook, very impressive (Mandriva that is), the only problem I have is that KDE4 (4.1) is still very immature and lacks so many of the features that I depend on in KDE 3.5.x. |
| dinotrac Sep 06, 2008 11:21 PM EDT |
All - Thanks for the suggestions. As it stands: 1. I like OpenSuSE a lot, and have it on my workstation. Thing is, I rely on my workstation very heavily, so I don't use it for experimentation. 2. I've tried a live Mint, and it was very nice. I've heard very nice things about Mandriva, and my give it a whirl, though -- does it default to kde4? That would be a negative for me. |
| Steven_Rosenber Sep 07, 2008 12:43 AM EDT |
Dual-booting Ubuntu 8.04 and Debian Lenny on this laptop has given me a little insight as to how the two distros differ. Configuration and autoconfiguration is very different. Xorg.conf looks totally different, drives are detected and mounted differently. And if Ubuntu wasn't the only distro to properly suspend/resume this Gateway Solo 1450, then I'd be a lot less forgiving. If I only knew exactly how it did this, I'd presumably be able to re-create this success in other distros. Alas, I do not. With all the hand-wringing over Slackware, I've thought for a long time that it would be a great distro for a novice or non-technical user as long as someone else was maintaining it. You could say the same thing for any computer operating system. Slackware, out of the box, is just harder for someone with no knowledge to muck up. Privileges are way more locked-down than in Ubuntu. The administrator can, of course, grant many privileges to any given user, but in Slackware you don't have to start out by removing privileges to keep some semblance of order. |
| gus3 Sep 07, 2008 1:55 AM EDT |
Quoting:Slackware, out of the box, is just harder for someone with no knowledge to muck up.But add a little knowledge, and... "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." I don't know how many times I rendered my system un-bootable or un-usable by trying to replace glibc or the kernel. I finally gave up on trying to do it, figuring I'd try it again when I had a better grasp of what was going on. But I knew that, thanks to the Free Software mentality, someday I would understand. Slackware has a steep learning curve, for those who wish to study it. However, it is also very rewarding, for those who wish to study it. I now use custom-built kernel and glibc as a matter of course. |
| lcafiero Sep 07, 2008 12:18 PM EDT |
Not that I'm an Ubuntu cheerleader by any stretch of the imagination [for two basic reasons: a.) I'm a Fedora ambassador and b.) I'm not exactly alluring in a short pleated skirt with matching pom-poms], but Steven does point out in his article that the problem could be the hardware. By the same token, though, the only install that "failed" at the Lindependence events in Felton was a Hardy Heron install that somehow went awry. The running saga of the $0 laptop is a very interesting and enjoyable one, Steven, but I wonder if you'd consider using a distro aimed at older machines, like perhaps AntiX or Fluxbuntu. Just a thought. |
| theboomboomcars Sep 08, 2008 12:05 PM EDT |
You could give sabayon 3.5 a try. |
| number6x Sep 08, 2008 12:52 PM EDT |
kde distros? Mandriva or PCLOS. I used to be a big SuSE user, but the 10.0 release's switch to Zen update caused too much trouble. It looks like they dropped zen somewhere in the 10.x series so it might be a good choice too. I'd say try PCLOS first. If it works, Mandriva will surely work as well. |
| happyfeet Sep 08, 2008 1:56 PM EDT |
Another vote for Sabayon 3.5 ... |
| herzeleid Sep 08, 2008 2:02 PM EDT |
Quoting:I used to be a big SuSE user, but the 10.0 release's switch to Zen update caused too much trouble. It looks like they dropped zen somewhere in the 10.x series so it might be a good choice too.10.0 was fine, but 10.1 had the zen debacle, which sent a lot of suse users to the smart package manager and some to other distros. In succeeding suse releases they moved to "zypper" and each release has seen a noticeable improvement in package manager speed. 11.0 does pretty well on that score, and in general. I'm happy to report that even with the new pulseaudio system in 11.0, all my games work, even the old q3demo from 1999. |
| number6x Sep 08, 2008 4:12 PM EDT |
Thanks herzeid, I started using SuSE with SuSE 4.3. I saw many ups and downs over the 10 years SuSE was my main distro. I came to use SuSE, as many people did originally, because it was Slackware with RPM. By the end of my SuSE tenure I was probably using Debian more than SuSE, but the Zen update problems caused too much grief for me. I think Open SuSE is a nice distro. Suse definitely took a step backwards trying to unify updates under a Novell product (zen) that was not as mature as the YaST tool that already existed. |
| herzeleid Sep 08, 2008 4:27 PM EDT |
Agreed, number6x - In most of the cases where Novell converted some suse app or tool to mono, it suffered, and zen was the poster child for reasons not to use mono, along with beagle. There are some nice mono apps though, like f-spot, so I'm not completely anti-mono. Just against using mono for the sake of using mono. |
| rijelkentaurus Sep 08, 2008 8:27 PM EDT |
@TAQuoting: the only problem I have is that KDE4 (4.1) is still very immature and lacks so many of the features that I depend on in KDE 3.5.x. As I understand it, 4.1.1 will be installed by default, but 3.5.10 will be in the repos, so you'll have access to it should you choose to run it. Not sure yet which I will go with. |
| tracyanne Sep 08, 2008 9:09 PM EDT |
We'll see when the final of 2009.0 is released. If 4 has matured enough I go with it, otherwise I'll wait until 2009.1 and look at it again. I've managed to upset a number of people on the KDE forum, by pointing out the fact that many 3 features, that I depend on, are missing, but all I want is to see KDE 4 get better, I'd like to use it. |
| DiBosco Sep 09, 2008 5:30 AM EDT |
Quoting:As I understand it, 4.1.1 will be installed by default, but 3.5.10 will be in the repos, so you'll have access to it should you choose to run it. Not sure yet which I will go with. This is how I understand it as well, but some of us on the Mandriva forum are trying to persuade them put KDE3.5.10 on the Free DVD as well as KDE4. I don't think it's a good idea (in fact I think it's an out-and-out bad idea) to have KDE4 as the only KDE option on the install medium. KDE4 is simply nowhere near ready to have as a production desktop and my worry is that Linux newbs will try it and not only be put off Linux but tell a lot of other people it's a load of crap too. The same goes for Mandriva One. I think it's vital that they use 3.5.10 and then have an optional CD for those who really want KDE4 and understand it's in beta. I'll be doing the same as Traceyanne and just sticking with 2008.1 until KDE4 is ready unless thay add a 3.5 option to 2009.0. Like TA, I see nothing inherently wrong with DE4, it's simply nowhere near ready for release yet. One other thing that's come to light is that the 2009.0 KDE version relies heavily on Mono which is causing some, er, debate! |
| dumper4311 Sep 09, 2008 11:44 AM EDT |
@DiBosco:
>"the 2009.0 KDE version relies heavily on Mono which is causing some, er, debate!" Understandably. I tend to share herzeleid's opinion on Mono, so it's not a problem in itself for me. but I'd be very curious as to the details of that debate. I realize there are several apps using Mono, but could you elaborate on what portions of their KDE implementation are using Mono that's causing the noise, or maybe have a link I could check out? |
| DiBosco Sep 09, 2008 12:30 PM EDT |
dumper, someone issued this command: urpme libmono0 | grep 2009 And found that there were 299 dependencies that seemed to rip the guts of KDE4. Thread starts here: http://forum.mandriva.com/viewtopic.php?t=93002&postdays=0&p... And goes on for six pages now. From what I can make out (and I'm starting lose track now) there used to be only a Beagle which depended on Mono (horrible program which I always uninstall!) and now something in Open Office has been built against Mono. I think that thread references two bug reports which seem to have contradictory claims as well. What I can definitely say is that 2008.1 runs just fine without Mono and if I try remove it from 2009.0 RC1 it wants to remove so many packages it wouldn't be much of an OS! |
| rijelkentaurus Sep 09, 2008 1:23 PM EDT |
What if you use RPM to remove it but force it to remove without the other stuff? Does the other stuff still work? |
| tracyanne Sep 09, 2008 7:34 PM EDT |
On the subject of Ubuntu, can any of the Ubuntu users here tell me how to set Ubuntu to auto login a user. It's dead set simple for me on Mandriva, but I can't find the corresponding functionality on Ubuntu. I just helped a new Linux user set up Ubuntu, a bloke down the road bought a 1 Gig P3 256 Meg of RAM machine (complete with Windows XP and Virii) for $50, he didn't really want Windows, and had been toying with the idea of installing Linux, he asked for my help/advice, he was rather taken with the idea of installing the copy of Hardy Heron he'd received with Linux Format magazine, so I helped him out, but I'm not familiar enough with Ubuntu/GNOME to do a couple things he wanted. |
| tuxchick Sep 09, 2008 7:40 PM EDT |
TA: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutoLogin I don't have my Ubuntu box handy, so hopefully that's not an old howto that doesn't work anymore. I know you can do it, it's just finding out where. |
| tracyanne Sep 09, 2008 9:51 PM EDT |
Thanks Carla, I'll give that a go. |
| ColonelPanik Sep 10, 2008 12:01 PM EDT |
TC, my thanks also. TA, thanks for asking that one. |
| bigg Sep 10, 2008 5:27 PM EDT |
On the subject of Mandriva/Mono, I just subjected myself to the waste of time that is reading the comments on Distrowatch. There are a few interesting comments in there every so often. Adam Williamson has posted, "For the tenth time in the last two days, nothing vital in KDE depends on Mono. task-kde3 depends on Kerry. Kerry depends on Mono. If you don't want Mono, do 'urpme mono'. It will take with it everything which depends on Mono. The task-kde3 package will be removed as well, but that's fine, because it's a metapackage. It doesn't contain anything important. KDE will continue to work perfectly well. KDE DOES NOT DEPEND ON MONO. Thank you. That is all." |
| tracyanne Sep 10, 2008 7:38 PM EDT |
Thank you bigg, I wasn't actually worried, for two reasons, 1) I know that the KDE devs have nothing that depends on Mono, so therefore Mandriva can't 2) I don't see Mono as a problem. I really should post on the Mandriva forums and add my ha'pence worth on the subject of Mono, even if just for the stir factor. |
| DiBosco Sep 10, 2008 7:57 PM EDT |
I might misunderstand the situation, but it does seem that the RC1 KDE *does* depend on Mono. *If* that is the case (and it certainly seems that way) then surely filing a bug report is reasonable? Granted that depends on: 1) Whether I understand correctly 2) Whether needing Mono is a bug! It's fine to say nothing in KDE depends on Mono, but when it's not possible to take Mono off the RC1 install without crippling your system that would suggest to me that Mono is vital. I tried taking it off my RC1 and could not do it without it falling over in a heap. Mono does seem to be a big deal to me because from what I understand it slow and bloaty, not to mention it's reverse engineered from a horrible MS language. Also, it's KDE4 that seems to be the real issue, not KDE3. If it's fixed (again depending on whether you see this as a problem) I then I think the bug report was worthwhile. If I have misunderstood what is going on I would love someone to explain it to me. |
| tracyanne Sep 10, 2008 9:07 PM EDT |
I'll have to install RC1 on a spare machine, I've only run it from the CD, and on a borrowed MacBook, and find out. But... if Adam says there isn't an issue and that it's relatively easy to uninstall Mono (kerry being the only KDE centric app that relies on it) then I'd tend to believe him. Kerry is a KDE/Beagle interface, that makes Beagle play nice with KDE (as nice as it can, I hates beagle), and of course Beagle is written in C# (Mono). But Beagle is only a desktop msearch engine, which I remove at install time on the PWP version, and post install on Mandriva One, and as Kerry depends on Beagle it always disappears for me as well. I leave Mono, cos I use Monodevelop. On the other hand I've had no trouble removing Mono from my machines, I have to reinstall some GNOME applications, like Evolution, because they have links to applications that depend on Mono, but It's no big deal, in my experience. I can't see that Mandriva have made lots of dependencies on Mono, they are quite conservative in that respect, and the only apps i knw of that have Mono dependencies are GNOME ones. |
| tracyanne Sep 10, 2008 9:21 PM EDT |
My partner just skyped me with this message.Quoting: Trevor [the bloke down the road I mentioned in an earlier post] stopped to say how WONDERFUL Linux is and soooooooo easy |
| gus3 Sep 11, 2008 12:01 AM EDT |
Good on ya, tracyanne! |
| dinotrac Sep 11, 2008 6:02 AM EDT |
DiBosco - 1. If Mandriva has a package that makes KDE depend on mono from the standpoint of its packaging system, then that is just plain wrong, whether or not somebody wants to call it a bug. 2. Although you may not want mono on your system, a preference to which you are entitled, installing it does nothing but take up cheap disk space if you don't use it. Galling? Sure. A real problem? Nah. Well -- I suppose you could have an old machine with a 512 mb drive, but you wouldn't be talking about KDE with one of those anyway. |
| bigg Sep 11, 2008 3:40 PM EDT |
Here's another post from Adam:Quoting: |
| tracyanne Sep 11, 2008 4:52 PM EDT |
Quoting:I'm in a restaurant and have had about a dozen cups of sake so far... He did better than I could have. |
| herzeleid Sep 11, 2008 6:53 PM EDT |
Quoting:Hope all of this makes sense, I'm in a restaurant and have had about a dozen cups of sake so far...Little Tokyo, or Gardena perhaps? |
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