So sick of this non-story
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| steever Jul 31, 2008 9:15 PM EDT |
Anyone else sick of hearing about this guy's adventures? Do we really need the weekly updates? |
| jacog Jul 31, 2008 9:36 PM EDT |
I'm fine with it. Anyone else? |
| azerthoth Jul 31, 2008 9:42 PM EDT |
I see no problems, it's not like anyone is forcing you to read every thing that hits the news wire. There are lots I dont read. |
| tracyanne Jul 31, 2008 10:14 PM EDT |
no problem here, but I don't read it either. |
| tuxtom Jul 31, 2008 10:16 PM EDT |
All things considered, I think it's more economical to search for the best job to afford a new laptop so as to move on to bigger and better things. |
| jacog Jul 31, 2008 10:44 PM EDT |
But more ecologically friendly to manufacture fewer computers. ;) |
| gus3 Jul 31, 2008 10:50 PM EDT |
I say keep them in. These stories are generically important for one reason: older equipment presents limitations that require the installer (human) to think, consider, plan, plot, in other words, use his/her mind. The first laptop I ever installed Linux to, required that I use a network connection to do it. I had to set up an NFS server on my desktop, create the Slackware boot and root floppies, leave off KDE, etc etc etc. On my shiny new desktop, I just drop in a CD or DVD and boot it up, but that might not be an option with older hardware. The issues don't end with the final installation. Mr. Rosenberg's articles are informative, containing the kinds of roadblocks and pitfalls one will encounter when using older hardware. @jacog: Not from a BogoMIPS/kW perspective. Using older hardware may save material and energy from a manufacturing perspective, but it can incur more cost in actual electricity used to run it. Newer systems do more computes with fewer watt-seconds, and have more aggressive power management available for mostly-idle desktop systems. |
| steever Jul 31, 2008 11:34 PM EDT |
We still have some news to look forward to ... * In search of the best OS for a 9-year-old laptop: Part I — Puppy or Damn Small Linux * In search of the best OS for a 9-year-old laptop: Part II — OpenBSD or Debian? Coming up: * In search of the best OS for a 9-year-old laptop: Part IV — Wolvix Cub is surprisingly strong * In search of the best OS for a 9-year-old laptop: Part V — Where I'm headed * In search of the best OS for a 9-year-old laptop: Part VI — Younger Puppies * In search of the best OS for a 9-year-old laptop: Part VII — Debian with Xfce and Fluxbox calls * In search of the best OS for a 9-year-old laptop: Part VIII — Final thoughts (aka "Why?") In addition to the 28 - I sh*t you not- stories about the $0 laptop. Just search for $0 laptop on lxer. |
| azerthoth Jul 31, 2008 11:54 PM EDT |
then dont read them. it's that easy. most of us realize that not every story or every author is going to interest every reader. Heck Hartley gets posted here and a good 90% of the people either dont read him or use it for comedy relief. as I said to someone else recently, Get over it. |
| gus3 Jul 31, 2008 11:54 PM EDT |
*ahem* Language! |
| jacog Aug 01, 2008 1:15 AM EDT |
Quoting:Not from a BogoMIPS/kW perspective. Using older hardware may save material and energy from a manufacturing perspective, but it can incur more cost in actual electricity used to run it. Newer systems do more computes with fewer watt-seconds, and have more aggressive power management available for mostly-idle desktop systems. You are so right... Rosenberg, you hog you! |
| jdixon Aug 01, 2008 3:12 AM EDT |
I find Steven's articles informative and comparatively well written myself. YMMV. As others have noted, don't read the articles if you don't like them. |
| steever Aug 01, 2008 4:36 AM EDT |
Sorry, just my opinion ... Now if he were to write about setting up a thin client network using a number of these old notebooks for, say, a school or other non-profit, that would be a pretty good read - and maybe a more useful project ... Sorry Mr Rosenberg. |
| tuxchick Aug 01, 2008 5:49 AM EDT |
Go for it, steever, write it yourself. Then perhaps you will enjoy the pleasure of someone like you commenting on it. |
| dumper4311 Aug 01, 2008 7:25 AM EDT |
@tuxchick: >"someone like you" Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. A bit sensitive on the subject, aren't we? :) In steever's defense, he did apologize for any offense, and expressed what he'd be more interested in, even if it was in a backhanded manner. Would you discourage such participation from the F/OSS "community"? Responding to him in such a manner seems only to confirm helios' position that there is no such community, just squabbling self interested camps. Not that I'm any better, I'm just saying - can't we all just get along? :) |
| jdixon Aug 01, 2008 8:04 AM EDT |
> I'm just saying - can't we all just get along? :) If history is any guide, probably not. :( That includes both here an in the wider world. |
| dumper4311 Aug 01, 2008 8:20 AM EDT |
@jdixon: Dang, captain bringdown! I'm going to have to quit blaming Bob_Robertson for everything, maybe it's been YOUR evil influence all along. :) I'm just messing with you a bit (and Bob_R, and tuxchick, and . . . .). |
| Bob_Robertson Aug 01, 2008 10:23 AM EDT |
Dumper, you misspelled "effluence". 99% of the articles are personal experiences and preferences, I see no reason to denigrate an article as just more personal experience and preferences. Don't blame me, nothing I've written has been included as an article. Not even the article I wrote up for inclusion in The Libertarian Enterprise special "Hackers and Spammers" issue. When that one comes out, I do intend to submit it as an article for LXer, hopefully it will receive a favorable nod. |
| dumper4311 Aug 01, 2008 10:55 AM EDT |
@Bob_R: "evil effluence" . . . I like that a lot. It's sick and wrong, but I like it. Not quite sure what that says about me however. Just the same, I don't know jdixon well enough to attribute any such quality to him. :) Care to spill any more details about the "Hackers and Spammers" issue? |
| hkwint Aug 01, 2008 10:57 AM EDT |
steever: I'm trying to understand your viewpoint; so could you eleborate a bit? Why is it your opinion that this is a non-story; and why do you think Mr. Rosenberg should move on to a more useful project? Is what he currently does not useful? As far as I can tell a lot of people (maybe not in the Western world?) have old hardware and like to know what software works good on (or at? Excuse my English...) it. |
| jdixon Aug 01, 2008 11:29 AM EDT |
> ...works good on (or at? Excuse my English...) it. On is normally used. With would be an acceptable substitute. Working at is normally only used when there is a task involved as the object of the phrase. |
| Steven_Rosenber Aug 01, 2008 6:37 PM EDT |
I do what I do, people, and that's all that I do. |
| steever Aug 01, 2008 9:18 PM EDT |
Sorry I brought it up. |
| Scott_Ruecker Aug 01, 2008 9:55 PM EDT |
steever, you made a negative comment about an article written by someone who 'hangs' out here a lot. Whether or not everyone is interested in everything he writes is their choice, but you started a thread with a negative comment and it brought you more negative comments about it. Please don't stay away from LXer because of this one instance, people pounced on you because you gave them an opportunity too. I have made that mistake many times myself. Scott |
| Bob_Robertson Aug 02, 2008 5:40 AM EDT |
Dumper, The editor made a "call for papers" here: http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2008/tle457-20080224.html#acfp The "My Little Pony" issue has already come out, but the other two, "Airport Crimes Against the Constitution" and "Viruses, Tapeworms, and Trojans, Oh My!" have not. Maybe for lack of articles, so if you feel like adding one of your own, please do. The Libertarian Enterprise might not be up the alley in terms of tone or timber for some folks, but as I said I think what I referred to as the "Hackers and Spammers" issue will, at least in my submission, make copious references to Linux and F/OSS and thus be well within the practical guidelines for an article on LXer. |
| tuxtom Aug 02, 2008 10:42 AM EDT |
Quoting:Please don't stay away from LXer because of this one instance... ...or more than one instance. I still come back, much to tuxchick's chagrin. 8^) |
| azerthoth Aug 02, 2008 2:42 PM EDT |
/me jumps on Scott "Piggy back ride, Piggy back ride !!!!" |
| Steven_Rosenber Aug 02, 2008 5:36 PM EDT |
Seriously, everybody, I welcome any and all criticism. I learned long ago that writing about what I want to write, the way I want to write it, is the key to happiness and health, if not wealth. I bet more than a few of us here have found that to be true. And it's better to have people reading and not liking what I'm writing than not reading it at all. My day job has been taking up a lot of time lately, and my currently unfolding "eight-part series," has been a long time in the making. Basically, I write what I'd like to read. I'd LOVE for somebody else with my exact hardware to be running a dozen Linux distros plus as many BSDs as will load and telling me how it all goes. Even if I could afford to buy new hardware every few years, and I most certainly can't, I enjoy the challenge and payoff of making the old equipment I get for free or cheap have a longer, productive life. I've told Scott many times that the LXer concept is, in my view, one of the most brilliant ways to bring together information and commentary on just about any subject. And it's a nice use of PHP and MySQL as well. The blogging I do (at http://blogs.dailynews.com/click) is for more of an "enthusiast" crowd, while my weekly print column (found at http://www.dailynews.com/technology) is aimed at a more general audience. I can't think of another newspaper print column that regularly mentions Linux and less-regularly throws in an aside on OpenBSD, but I digress. What I mean to say -- and what almost all of us know -- is that what seems irrelevant or repetitive to one reader can be revelatory and helpful to another. That's the nature of this here beast. If we can't criticize Linus Torvalds, Theo deRaadt or even me (notice how I throw my name in with people who can actually code?) ... again, I welcome in equal measure praise and the other thing. |
| tuxtom Aug 02, 2008 6:49 PM EDT |
Hey Steven, when I posted that I found it more economical to go new and move on I wasn't being critical. I have spent the past ten years getting Linux to run on all sorts of stuff. I have a PI-233 IBM ThinkPad w/32 megs of RAM running DSL, but I have to admit it is on a shelf collecting dust and the only reason I still have it is because I can't sell it and I can 't think of anyone to give it to who would appreciate it without trying to put Windows back on it. It is old and slow and the novelty has worn off. For all practical purposes it's just a conversation piece. If I need to reminisce I just look in the mirror and try to see hair. I never took the time to document most of my experiences as you have. I compliment you on this. I wish there were more guys like you around...or I wish I were more like you...or both. But for me the thrill is gone, much in the same way that I don't restore and work on old VW's anymore. I still admire them and even wish I had one occasionally, but I am not going to work on them again. I'd keep these things running as servers but the fire hazard risk with this old stuff is way too high for my taste. Those old laptops get HOT. The beauty of I.T. is that there is a lifetime of endeavor in any direction you might choose to focus, and you can change direction anytime you feel like it (economic necessity aside). Keep up the good work. |
| Steven_Rosenber Aug 02, 2008 7:02 PM EDT |
I used to have a '73 Super Beetle and then a '78 Bus, and I see the parallel. Working on old computers is sinfully easy compared to just about everything else out there, from car restoration to woodworking. Like shooting the proverbial fish in a barrel. Nowadays I like to turn the key, have the car start and get where I'm going. |
| tuxtom Aug 02, 2008 7:18 PM EDT |
Quoting:Working on old computers is sinfully easy compared to just about everything else out there...There is truth to that old axiom that programmers are lazy. If it weren't true then we'd have grease under our fingernails, sawdust in our hair and be typing on a different forum, now, wouldn't we? |
| caitlyn Aug 02, 2008 8:49 PM EDT |
Steven has got it right. When I write, whether it's for O'Reilly or on my blog about Linux, or even more so when I do political writing, I know there are always going to be people who don't like what I have to say. If I comment negatively about something that some people really likes I'm bound to be called an idiot for having a negative opinion. If I write a really positive piece someone who disagrees is still likely to call me stupid for daring to have a different opinion. If I don't change my mind to some I must be closed-minded, intolerant, and unwilling to accept dissent. Nothing I wrote is ever going to pleae everyone. I've learned that writing is not for the thin skinned. What is important to me when I write is not how much people might agree with me or like me. What is really important is that I write with integrity. What I write has to be honest and to reflect the way I see things accurately. So long as I'm true to myself negative comments can't hurt me. Nobody is compelled to read what I write or what Steven Rosenberg writes. If you're not interested then by all means skip the article. I doubt Steven would be offended. Don't call on the articles to be excluded, though. If an article is on topic and appropriate to LXer.com it should be published here. Steever, you're not asking that the editors censor based on yur personal tastes, are you? |
| gus3 Aug 02, 2008 9:32 PM EDT |
Quoting:Nowadays I like to turn the key, have the car start and get where I'm going.And if you don't get the expected results when you turn the key, what do you do? Fix it yourself, or hope there's a competent mechanic somewhere within towing distance? Many of the truths about old cars still apply to new cars: intake, compression, combustion, exhaust. Many of the truths about old computers still apply as well. Learning to fix old computers, and learning the thinking that goes into it, improves one's ability to fix new computers as well. (Hybrid cars notwithstanding...) |
| tuxtom Aug 02, 2008 11:02 PM EDT |
Quoting:And if you don't get the expected results when you turn the key, what do you do?Tuxtom's Multiple Choice: A) Shout expletives. B) Public transportation. C) Ride my bike. D) Repair it myself. E) Replace car. F) All of the above. There is no mechanic involved. If I can't fix it myself (D) the vehicle gets replaced (E). No exceptions (policy underwritten by (B) and (C)), unless I'm just lazy and self-indulgant and have some discretionary cash (A+). Same with computers...if it is wacked enough to have get someone else involved it is scrapped on the spot after a healthy application of (A-). With a car, there is no possibility of warranty repair because the car would never be purchased new enough to have a warranty to begin with (F). This is not the same with computers. I buy them (or their parts) new with full warranty, but obtaining warranty service or replacement is more costly (time, inconvenience, hoops) than just replacing the defective item when the time comes. Dual-core laptops are so cheap now they're practically disposable. Computers fall somewhere in between used cars and paper towels with me. |
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