The nut job is welcome to make death threats at me
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tracyanne Jul 04, 2008 12:18 AM EDT |
I enjoy a good laugh. |
| dinotrac Jul 04, 2008 3:34 AM EDT |
But the guy has a point. Women have destroyed the free software movement. That is, if free software means a bunch misogynistic jerks one-upping each other because they couldn't connect with a real live healthy adult human being if they spent a year boning up on Basic Human Interactions and How Grown-ups Act in the Real World for Dummiies. |
| cabreh Jul 04, 2008 5:29 AM EDT |
I know some of it seems funny or even stupid. And, I'm keeping in mind just where this story was published, but I think there should be a real concern if someone is in fact sending out death threats. After all, if it's true wouldn't it be best to have the police at least check on this person to see if they might actually follow through on the threats? I'm not saying just because it was women being threatened or anything. I would hope that the same would apply if it was the other way around even. But I guess that's the call of those being threatened. |
| TxtEdMacs Jul 04, 2008 5:51 AM EDT |
dino! Is that how you did it!? Won't work for me, I have been crazy about women for as long as I can remember. But I am still stuck in the basement not knowing how to deal with real people ... do you have another book you can recommend for my type? Your buddy, Txt. |
| tuxchick Jul 04, 2008 6:12 AM EDT |
Tracyanne, what's so damn funny about death threats? Sheesh. This isn't the Three Stooges, it's real people. |
| jdixon Jul 04, 2008 8:06 AM EDT |
> I enjoy a good laugh. Which is easy to do since you're in Australia and he's in the US. I'm not sure the US folks can take it so sanguinely. > And, I'm keeping in mind just where this story was published... AFAIK, the Register is fairly good about keeping to the facts when dealing with factual matters. Their opinion pieces, on the other hand... |
| tuxchick Jul 04, 2008 9:35 AM EDT |
A bit of background: from the very beginning of Debian-Women, when the creation of it was first proposed, the opposition was unbelievable. In typical Debian fashion, every psychopath and hater-of-everything felt it was their sacred obligation to share their opinions of the project. Repeatedly, on any and every mailing list they could find, and attacking people at their personal email addresses and sites. Which was bad enough, but then the various Debian leaders who were involved were complete wusses. Musn't interfere with crazy, hateful people's sacred rights to spew their hate on everyone else. It got so bad I quit- fighting both crazies and wusses was too high a price for me. I have great admiration for the people who stuck it out. @tracyanne, sorry for grumping at you. It's not a subject that I see any humor in :( |
| helios Jul 04, 2008 4:00 PM EDT |
I got three death threats in 2006, eight in 2007 (Tux500 undoubtedly caused the spike) and I stand at three so far this year. I discount the ones that read "I ought to..." or "I wish someone would..." They don't count. They used to bother me...only told my wife so she was aware of it. Dutifully reported the first 5 to the police and eventually stopped doing that. I swapped my time in filling out worthless "victim reports" and used that time to make one really, really good friend at Time Warner. Was able to trace three of the threats down to not only a physical address but a physical machine. Simply calling the person up and identifying yourself is in itself a carnival of laughs. Asking them "Listen, I am pretty booked for next month. Can we get this "killing me" thing out of the way so I can scratch it off my list?" Now THAT's entertainment. Did try to report those first individuals to the police but when I found out I had to explain how I KNEW they were the senders, I opted for my method. The sad part is that just about the time you begin to think that they are all crackpots...one of them sneaks thru and tries to carry it out. That hasn't happened yet but I don't discount the possibility. That's why I call them immediately and let them know I know who they are. Never a peep after that. |
| jdixon Jul 04, 2008 6:13 PM EDT |
> I got three death threats in 2006, eight in 2007 I can't say I'm surprised. High visibility attracts all kinds of people. Maybe I'm fortunate that I'm not well known. I've only had one exchange that could have been taken as a threat, and it wasn't anything serious like a death threat. Merely someone mouthing off a bit much. I don't know how I'd handle a read death threat, other than letting my wife know. I'm glad it's not something I've had to consider. |
| tracyanne Jul 04, 2008 7:59 PM EDT |
Quoting:Tracyanne, what's so damn funny about death threats? Death threats over the internet, get a grip on yourself... I've had them several times in various social forums over the years. I'm not about to loose sleep over some gallah that gets himself off, or who thinks I'm about to turn all quivery, posting threats on an on line forum. Yes it's very funny in a sad sort of way. What would you rather I do other than laugh at the pathetic creeps. |
| dinotrac Jul 05, 2008 10:43 AM EDT |
ta - I suppose laughing is better than whistling in the wind, but, honestly, they are not funny. They should be funny. I wish that they were funny. Unfortunately, we live in a day and an age where a tiny sliver of the population seriously considers acting out such threats and we have no way of knowing who they are. If 9999/10000 internet death threats are the harmless work of some pathetic little creep, it provides scant comfort when you encounter number 10000. |
| tracyanne Jul 05, 2008 2:38 PM EDT |
Quoting:If 9999/10000 internet death threats are the harmless work of some pathetic little creep, it provides scant comfort when you encounter number 10000. Dino, I'm threatened with death every time I take my car out on the highway. I'm simialrly threatened by death or injury every time I cross the road, when i go to Brisbane or Sydney. There are also many other random things that could happen. I'm simply not going to live in fear because 1 nutter in 10000 might actually carry through. I might just as well worry about the absolute inevitability of death, which comes to us all eventually, no ifs no buts no maybes. I've got beter things to do with my life than waste it getting upset by patheitic nut jobs. The first time I was threatened was back around 1997/98 when I was involved with a Christian chat group. I started out as a Christian, but over time became an Atheist. One bright spark in Tasmania, insulted by my slide, threatened me by email, and irony of irony, posted to the forum that I was threatening him. When I offered to post our correspondence on line, he back peddled and stopped posting, at least while I was still there. Now he could have been for real, he even could have been dangerous, as he knew where I lived - this was before I started making it difficult for people to find me IRL (you can't hide completely) - but I didn't let that worry me I got on with my life. Because of where I've been in my life, I've also been threatened by witches, by representatives of christian "we can cure Homosexuality" groups, and by some bloke that liked to beat up on women (that one was in your face IRL), he nearly broke my arm, and I nearly stabbed him in the face with a pair of nail scissors I carried with me back then, if someone who knew me hadn't told this blokes friend who pulled him off and told him how dangerous I was (and I was, I was a very, very angry person back in the 90s), I would have. he never came near me again while I was there. So no I don't worry that one nutter in however many might actually try to do it. |
| Bob_Robertson Jul 05, 2008 4:46 PM EDT |
> Dino, I'm threatened with death every time I take my car out on the highway. I'm simialrly threatened by death or injury every time I cross the road, when i go to Brisbane or Sydney.
> There are also many other random things that could happen. I'm simply not going to live in fear because 1 nutter in 10000 might actually carry through. That's the same thing I tell people when they tell me I'm somehow endangered by owning guns. Hahaha, far more likely to be hit by lightning or die falling in the bathtub. |
| tuxchick Jul 05, 2008 6:03 PM EDT |
Being threatened is bad enough, and even when your logical brain says it's probably an empty threat, it's upsetting being on the receiving end of so much hate. It doesn't help that there is a tiered abuse system. Everything less than a death threat is acceptable, but by gosh one or two people are going to violate the sacred unwritten geekcode that forbids ever having the tiniest bit of empathy or compassion towards another person, and boldly state publicly that death threats are Bad. Death threats are targeted, not random like a MVA or lightning strike. It's an entirely different deal being singled out for special attention. |
| thenixedreport Jul 05, 2008 6:28 PM EDT |
TC, I understand that you went through a difficult time because of some idiots who disagreed with you and wanted you to stop doing what you were doing. However, a phrase comes to mind: Words only have power if you allow them to have power. That is the key. How long ago was it before Debian Women was started as a group? I am ignorant on the subject anyway, so please forgive me. Assuming that it was quite a bit of time since you quit the group per se, there should have been some point in your life (or if it was recent, there should be eventually) where you may have to suck it up and move on with your life. Yes, we can say some things that are very hurtful. However, instead of closing our brains and reacting immediately, perhaps it would be a good idea to stop and think about what is on that screen, then digest, and discuss. Too much knowledge has been discarded because of disagreement on one or two points. |
| Sander_Marechal Jul 06, 2008 4:31 PM EDT |
I'm with tracyanne on this one. I laugh at them. I even used to collect the most interesting one's I got. Back in the days before my FOSS life I had other hobbies that yielded me at least one death threat a week. A "good" week brought in much more. Most of these were written by people who'd probably follow up on it if they ever got the chance. Some of them were from people who weren't from the other side of the planet either. I love the voodoo death threats best. They're just so much fun to read :-) |
| tuxchick Jul 07, 2008 9:15 AM EDT |
TA and Sander, I think we're having two different conversations. You're talking about how you handle these things; I'm talking about how a lot of folks are affected by these things, and how poisonous and destructive a few hateful trolls can be to an online community. You can laugh them off. Most folks aren't that hardened, and in a better world wouldn't need to be. They don't expect to be attacked for nothing, for just being who they are, and telling them to ignore it and don't be bothered, which is very typical in geekland, is unrealistic. And un-compassionate. I wrote about this sometime back: http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netos/article.php/... 'Free, Open, Eating Its Young' Some choice quotes: Quoting: There will always be horrid, hateful people in the world—we aren't obligated to provide forums for their bile. I like the Five Geek Social Fallacies, they have the ring of truth: http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html |
| tracyanne Jul 07, 2008 1:32 PM EDT |
Quoting:Most folks aren't that hardened, and in a better world wouldn't need to be. They don't expect to be attacked for nothing, for just being who they are, TC in a perfect world that would be a reasonable expectation, unfortunately it ain't a perfect world. I've been through this whole thing before. People are going to attack you for no good reason, other than that they are arseholes. People are going to do hurtful things deliberately or accidentally, sometime the people who do hurtful things will say they are sorry, most won't, either because they don't see what they did was hurtful or because they don't care (and sometime because they do care, because they set out to do so). In the end the point is not that they are arseholes, it not that someone fails to recognise they did or said something that hurt you. The point is what YOU do with that hurt. It's YOU that matters in this interaction, not the person who hurt you, not the nasty words, or worse, they said or did. It's what YOU do with the rest of your life. You could spend your time dwelling on the hurt, the fearful threats, the physical hurts, and you would, by doing so, give them even more power over you. Some religions have the concept of forgiveness (Christianity, Buddhism for example). The point of forgiveness is that you let go of the hurt, and move on, not that the one who offended against you be forgiven. They have ample time for the act of forgiveness to work for them when they say sorry, until then, what matters, where you are concerned, is that you have moved on, and the evil done to you no longer has power over you. Give it back to to instigator, let them own it, not you. Psychologists recommend the same thing. In the end that's really all I'm saying. Maybe I am hardened, I don't think so. I just think I have come to understand where the power others might have over me comes from. |
| tuxchick Jul 07, 2008 1:47 PM EDT |
Sigh. What part of "having a little compassion for people who get abused, and being supportive" is not getting through? Where did I deny that the world is of full of buttheads, or imply that I needed lectures on how to handle them? Sometimes it feels like talking to walls here. **edit** Nor do I accept that it's just a part of life that must be tolerated- there are things that can be done. |
| tracyanne Jul 07, 2008 2:13 PM EDT |
Quoting: Sometimes it feels like talking to walls here. Yes it does. Carla, what part of sharing the benefit of my experience is not compassionate? What part of showing that there is life after insult, is not compassionate? The most compassionate act I ever received was from someone who showed me how to move on. Everything else that passed as compassion kept me trapped. Had I chosen not to accept the gift that freed me, I would still have been trapped - probably. anyone I share that same gift with is also free not to accept it. Quoting:there are things that can be done. I offered one on the personal level. These people can also be selectively routed out and removed from posting where they can spew their venom, they could, also, where the law allows, be tracked down and prosecuted. So yes there are things that can be done. |
| Bob_Robertson Jul 08, 2008 5:29 AM EDT |
> there are things that can be done. Unfortunately, handguns in Australia seem, from here, to be hard to get. I'd still recommend it. |
| jacog Jul 08, 2008 6:36 AM EDT |
Geez... this is form a forum post on a fairly reputable movie review site this week: "I Swear to ****ing god if this slut bag whore ***** opens her god damn mouth about Rose Mcgowan one more time I will take a ****ing switrchblade and gut her ****ing stupid ***." Switchblade? I thought that term went out of fashion like 3 decades ago. One post down: Oh I see you (*removed*) want my switchblade in you too well no problem I need another reason to use it anyway. |
| tracyanne Jul 08, 2008 1:11 PM EDT |
Bob hand guns are just showy noisy things anyway, I guess that's why immature people like them. |
| jdixon Jul 08, 2008 2:21 PM EDT |
> Bob hand guns are just showy noisy things anyway... You've obviously never fired a Ruger Mark II. |
| tracyanne Jul 08, 2008 4:01 PM EDT |
The smallest hand gun I've fired was a Parker Hale 308 with a 180 grain load, but I don't think that qualifies as a hand gun. |
| Bob_Robertson Jul 08, 2008 4:40 PM EDT |
> Bob hand guns are just showy noisy things anyway... Not really. They are "defensive side arms", and deserve to be treated as such. It is what to have available "just in case". If you know trouble is on the way, keep a rifle or shotgun. However, I must totally agree on the "noisy" part. I'm disgusted that suppressors have been demonized in the mass media and legal circles, since they were invented to abide noise ordinances. > I guess that's why immature people like them. People like them because they recognize "the sword that gives life". An appreciation of arms is a survival trait, and has been since the first human picked up a rock. Much like an appreciation of the benefits of Free Software leads to greater effective use of computer resources. Am I back on topic now? |
| tracyanne Jul 08, 2008 5:42 PM EDT |
Quoting:Am I back on topic now? close. |
| jdixon Jul 08, 2008 6:35 PM EDT |
Tracyanne, the Ruger Mark II is a .22 caliber semi-automatic pistol. It has the advantages of the light weight, low recoil, and comparative quietness of a .22. It is also supposed to be fairly accurate for a consumer grade pistol. The combination of these features was why it was recommended by some as an ideal gun for women and youngsters. A .22 doesn't have much stopping power, but if you empty the magazine into an attacker, he's not going to be in any condition to do anything when he gets to you, and the best gun to have is one that you can use. The only problem we ever found with it was that the mechanism was too hard for my wife to work, so we got her a Smith and Wesson 622 instead, and I kept the Ruger. It tells you something that the Ruger Mark II even has a Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_MK_II). It is unfortunately no longer available, having been replaced by the Mark III. Ozark guns has a couple of good pictures of the Ruger Mark II at [url=http://www.ozarkguns.com/Ruger Pistol/mark2/ruger_mark2.htm.]http://www.ozarkguns.com/Ruger Pistol/mark2/ruger_mark2.htm.[/url] I'd have to check to be certain, but I believe mine is a MK678G (0173), though I think mine only came with a six shot magazine. And bringing the subject back to our favorite OS, I doubt it's a coincidence that someone who prefers Slackware also likes the Ruger Mark II. |
| tracyanne Jul 08, 2008 6:43 PM EDT |
I'm just glad I live in a society where such personal protection as a hand gun is unnecessary. I just wish it was friendlier to our favourite OS. |
| azerthoth Jul 08, 2008 7:29 PM EDT |
tracyanne, simple test of personal safety and security, call the local pizza delivery and call the police, see which one shows up first. or a personal gun totting computer geek favorite: Colt, the original point and click interface. |
| tracyanne Jul 08, 2008 7:57 PM EDT |
I live in a small country town. So the answer is simple, the police, they live just up the road, and the station is about a mile past their place. The local pizza place is a half an hours drive, at highway speeds (100Kph here in Aus) in the nearest major population centre so I wouldn't see a pizza for about an hour at least, depending on how busy they are, assuming they would actually bother delivering. On the other hand I used to live in Sydney, in Balmain, 5 minutes by car from George street (Sydney's main street), my partner and I spent a lot of Friday and Saturday nights on the club scene. So we were out from around 10/11 PM until around 5 AM and I can't say I've ever had reason to fear for my safety, nor have I seen anything I would be particularly concerned about. Next Madi Gras or LinuxAus, why don't you pop on over and take in the atmosphere. |
| Sander_Marechal Jul 09, 2008 3:22 AM EDT |
Quoting:tracyanne, simple test of personal safety and security, call the local pizza delivery and call the police, see which one shows up first. Police: ~6 minutes Pizza: ~35 minutes My country > your country ;-) |
| jacog Jul 09, 2008 3:27 AM EDT |
My country < most of your countries Pizza: ~35 minutes Police: Maybe 3 hours, if you are lucky... otherwise sometimes they just forget to come at all. |
| Bob_Robertson Jul 09, 2008 3:54 AM EDT |
Sadly, the police (in the US anyway) aren't "peace keepers" any more. Andy Griffith is long gone. They are Law Enforcement. An occupying army by another name, and appropriately armed and outfitted. The people to call when you're in trouble is the fire department. Sadly, in the US there is also "911 Emergency", where someone decides who to send rather than being able to call one or the other directly. Jacog, not sure what country you're in, but that sounds like a big American city to me. Small town have much better response times and better responses, because people know each other. The smallest town I lived in was about 500 people, with no "police" only a sheriff for the county and 12 deputies. It's also the first place I applied for and received a CCW, because as the sheriff said when he shook my hand, "I believe the 2nd Amendment means exactly what it says. We can't be everywhere." |
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