Oy
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| rijelkentaurus May 15, 2008 11:35 AM EDT |
These are all starting to sound like propaganda to me. Does Shuttleworth pay people to write reviews about Ubuntu? I honestly don't think it's that good as far as distros go, I know I am not alone in that...surely someone besides myself and TA have had great experiences with Mandriva as the primary OS? Or Debian? Or PCLOS? Or Mepis? Or Fedora? Or SUSE? Or...or...or...where are all of the other reviews? Or perhaps people are really believing Ubuntu=Linux. [url=http://google.com/trends?q=ubuntu, suse, debian, red hat, mandriva&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0]http://google.com/trends?q=ubuntu, suse, debian, red hat, ma...[/url] |
| cabreh May 15, 2008 1:14 PM EDT |
You are correct that Ubuntu really isn't any better than the other versions of Linux. However, right now Ubuntu has the media attention. Exactly why this came about I can't say. But because of this it's the version most new users try. And, contrary to what some people have experienced, for most people they have no trouble with the installation and it "just works" for them. Being new to Linux a lot of them wont go out right away and try something else. And, this is the age of blogging. So, they write about it. Do I believe Mark Shuttleworth is buying this coverage? Not for a moment. I'm an experienced Linux user of many years (both in using Linux and in age) and I prefer Ubuntu to all the versions you list. And yes I have tried them. But that's just a personal preference. And I guess I've been luck enough to have equipment that doesn't have any real issues with Ubuntu. I do wonder however what you would be saying if the shoe was on the other foot. What if Mandriva was the poster child? Would you then complain about all the copy? |
| dumper4311 May 15, 2008 1:25 PM EDT |
Careful now, you risk upsetting the Ubuntites. I wouldn't choose to use it personally, but I can see how things like this happen. Ubuntu's popularity is largely a manifestation of herd mentality in the world of F/OSS. Note, it's not the first such manifestation, and likely won't be the last. Even in a culture that prides itself on being "free", it's all too easy to let others decide on the nature of that freedom for you. Now, I KNOW my comments will upset the Ubuntites, so I'll apologize in advance. I'm not specifically commenting on anything I find (real or percieved) to be right or wrong in Ubuntu; I'm simply saying that this is the most reasonable explanation I can find for the popularity of this particular distro. The trend lends itself to such a theory, so blame Nietzsche. Compare the semi-rabid following here and it's rapid growth to the more widespread use of different distros by Linux users as a whole. It's still a fairly diverse population (we likes what we likes for a wide array of reasons) - with this notable exception. |
| herzeleid May 15, 2008 1:40 PM EDT |
Don't worry, be happy. If ubuntu gets good press, the rising tide lifts all of linux. Take it easy, go with the flow. I've used a lot of linux distros, and what the heck, I even ran solaris on the desktop for 18 months. I've used mainly suse since 2004, but I have to say i like hardy heron - it runs better on my compaq v6000 laptop than anything else I've tried. If some mickeysoft guy discovers fedora and switches from microsoft to fedora, I'm not going to be miffed that he didn't choose my distro - even though I don't use fedora myself, I'll still congratulate him and refrain from badmouthing his choice of distro. I'm just saying that any linux convert is a good thing, regardless of distro. Even (shudder) linspire.... |
| number6x May 15, 2008 1:49 PM EDT |
The ubuntu forums have many users who try and sometimes switch, to other distros. They may start out with Ubuntu, but they are using and learning Linux. And no, Shuttleworth does not pay for propaganda, but he did pick up a used reality distortion field generator that the Russian space agency reverse engineered from one Steve Jobs threw out. He's been using that on some Ubuntu newbies with some effect. |
| dumper4311 May 15, 2008 3:19 PM EDT |
@herzeleid:
> "I'm just saying that any linux convert is a good thing, regardless of distro" Generally, I agree with you. The only caution I'd attach to that is it's very easy to bring or promote bad habits (security or otherwise) by doing things one way vs. another. Mass movements like the Ubuntu surge don't always bring with them the level of critical thought requisite for such a large trend. Again, not a comment on Ubuntu, just a reminder of the necessity of conscious reflection. Not nearly as necessary here (generally) as with the user population at large. Reality distortion field generator - could have picked one of those up myself. Damn my anemic bank account. . . . |
| tracyanne May 15, 2008 3:40 PM EDT |
Quoting:What if Mandriva was the poster child? Would you then complain about all the copy? I certainly wouldn't find the need to push back by pointing out that Mandriva is every bit as Good as Ubuntu, and better in some areas, if Mandriva got all the press. On the other hand I would be out there pointing out that Mandriva != Linux, and that there are other equally good Desktop Linuxes. On the Yuku Forum I post to, I post many of those Ubuntu articles, I usually point out that what applies to Ubuntu applies to many other Linuxes. |
| jdixon May 15, 2008 4:00 PM EDT |
> ...surely someone besides myself and TA have had great experiences with Mandriva as the primary OS? Lots. But most such reviews that I've encountered were actually about Mandrake some years ago. The company went through a couple of really lousy releases a few years ago, then bankruptcy, and it still hasn't fully recovered. I'm willing to take TA's word that the distro is now back to where it used to be. And of course, I'm one of the resident Slackware users. > I'm just saying that any linux convert is a good thing, regardless of distro. I'd have to agree, and Ubuntu is better than many. Its Debian base is a big point in its favor. |
| vainrveenr May 15, 2008 6:20 PM EDT |
The recent LXer post 'Linux Shootout: 7 Desktop Distros Compared' found at http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/102908/index.html actually DOES evaluate Mandriva as well as the requisite Ubuntu, within the Yegulalp piece itself .
The minus side is that this piece notoriously omits the large "base" distros Debian and Slackware.
Guess that Yegulalp finds these latter two less than desktop-friendly (as other desktop/laptop users mention).
The plus side is that Yegulalp DOES delve into openSUSE, PCLinuxOS, Fedora, SimplyMEPIS, and CentOS 5.1, to do a better job of rounding things out. |
| rijelkentaurus May 15, 2008 6:29 PM EDT |
Quoting: Mandriva and its cousins -- SimplyMEPIS and PCLinuxOS I haven't looked for other such mistakes, but that's pretty sizeable. But yes, they do review Mandriva and some others. |
| rijelkentaurus May 15, 2008 6:37 PM EDT |
Quoting: CentOS comes in a few different varieties. If you don't want to deal with the 3+ GB .ISO, there's a live CD -- although the only installation option for the live CD is an over-the-network installer. Be sure to take notes beforehand about where to fetch the files from, as there are no default download locations available in the installer. There's also a separate network-only installation CD (a mere 7-MB ISO), but again you need to supply the address of a repository. Finally, Duke is actually good for something.... http://linux.duke.edu/dist/centos-5/install.ptml This is how I install CentOS now. |
| cabreh May 16, 2008 12:54 AM EDT |
@tracyanne > I certainly wouldn't find the need to push back by pointing out that Mandriva is every bit as Good as Ubuntu, and better in some areas, Could you please explain the ways that Mandriva is better than Ubuntu? I just tried out the 2008.Spring CD I had and personally I couldn't see anything that was better in any way. It didn't work any better with my hardware. Nor was it any faster. Nor more secure. And it didn't have any programs I use that Ubuntu doesn't. So, I'm curious. Or were you saying that Ubuntu users are saying that Ubuntu is better than Mandriva? I'm not quite sure how you meant your statement. I know I haven't said that myself. Only that I prefer it. Much like you prefer Mandriva. |
| tracyanne May 16, 2008 4:29 AM EDT |
Quoting:Could you please explain the ways that Mandriva is better than Ubuntu? I just tried out the 2008.Spring CD I had and personally I couldn't see anything that was better in any way. It didn't work any better with my hardware. Nor was it any faster. Nor more secure. And it didn't have any programs I use that Ubuntu doesn't. So, I'm curious. Mandriva Linux Control Centre. KDE Desktop. It's also rare that one needs to use the comand line to configure hardware, something that is only too common with Ubuntu, in fact in the almost 8 years I've used Mandrake/Mandriva, I've never had to use the Command Line to configure Mandrake/Mandriva, which when I started using Mandrake was a real bonus. So if you are finding Ubuntu to be as good (as in as easy to use and configure as Mandriva) it means that Ubuntu has finally caught up to Mandriva, and is finally living upt to the hype. |
| cabreh May 16, 2008 5:23 AM EDT |
@tracyanne Ah, now I understand. Your thinking is that KDE is better than Gnome and therefore Mandriva is better. Well, until I tried Ubuntu 6.06 LTS I probably would have agreed with you. But, that's the first Linux release where Gnome actually started to work for me. I now find KDE to be clunky and the menus not very friendly (rather cluttered for my taste). So, it really comes down to a desktop preference. That's fine. I have come to like the more minimal approach of Gnome. You like KDE. So, Mandriva is "better" for you. But obviously not for me. :) And I can't remember that last time I really had to go to the command line to manage anything on my systems these days either. That may depend on what hardware you have of course. Or maybe it's being used to how to do things in Gnome. I know if I have to work in KDE I find it harder to do things now than I remember them being. Just my lack of current experience and an aging memory I suspect. |
| tracyanne May 16, 2008 5:33 AM EDT |
Quoting:Ah, now I understand. Your thinking is that KDE is better than Gnome and therefore Mandriva is better No. Reread my post. |
| cabreh May 16, 2008 6:06 AM EDT |
@tracyanne Mandriva Control Center KDE Not having to go to command line. I think I got it all. But, there isn't anything there that makes Mandriva better unless your choice is KDE and Mandriva. Read my post entirely as well. I also don't have to go to the command line on my many systems running Ubuntu to do configuration. I have all the "control Center" features I need in Ubuntu as well. Therefore the only difference was your preference for KDE and mine for Gnome. I just don't see anything else in your post. |
| cabreh May 16, 2008 6:16 AM EDT |
@tracyanne I knew I wanted to add more to that last post. Sorry I was too fast on the button. Yes, I am finding that Ubuntu has caught up as far as I'm concerned. Mandriva/mandrake did have more time to hone their version. I guess they all take a certain amount of time. |
| helios May 16, 2008 7:56 AM EDT |
I think the major difference between the two has to do more with user friendliness than anything else. On an upcoming article, we will present the findings of a team that used 10 users and three distros...all of them installing them and using them and using them in round robin fashion. Kubuntu did not have Firefox as the immediately available browser and that threw many off itself. They also found the adept package manager to be a bit more difficult to use. All of the new users found Synaptic to be to their liking. It was the only thing every one agreed upon 100 percent. That needs to be addressed. The third distro was Mepis and while many complained about the "ugly" presentation, they found it much easier to use. I am hoping that Ubuntu gets some of these issues dealt with. Having to install Firefox immediately falls directly in the catagory of "dumbstuff". If this is going to be the distro most new users gravitate to, those who advocate Linux should be given a tool that doesn't make them use konqueror as a browser. Taking Konqueror to Gmail will immediately showcase it's obvious weaknesses. Besides, the firefox campaign has succeeded in the Windows world as well...many are familiar with it and look forward to using it in Linux. When they don't find it in the menu, it tends to cause a bit of discomfort and impatience. Mandriva was voted by 8 out of 10 as the "most appealing" while Ubuntu was voted by the majority of 7 as having the best software selection. The real surprise came when 9 out of 10 said mepis was the fastest and easiest to learn. I didn't expect that at all but I don't write it...just report it. h h |
| gus3 May 16, 2008 8:40 AM EDT |
@cabreh:Quoting:Could you please explain the ways that Mandriva is better than Ubuntu? I just tried out the 2008.Spring CD I had and personally I couldn't see anything that was better in any way. It didn't work any better with my hardware. Nor was it any faster. Nor more secure.Except for the OpenSSH compromised keys in Ubuntu. I'd say that makes Mandriva a candidate for "more secure than Ubuntu." Oh, but you "just tried [it] out." How did you do a true security assessment on Mandriva that quickly? I'm sure the SANS team would love to know! |
| cabreh May 16, 2008 9:40 AM EDT |
@gus3 Well for one thing I looked at running processes and services out of the box. That's one way to look at if thought is being given to a release. Oh, and the openssh hole is thanks to Debian and not necessarily Ubuntu. Any distro using the DEBIAN openssh packages was affected. And the fix was release very quickly. Just like security holes in Mandriva get fixed quickly. If you have proof that Mandriva is a more secure release I'd be willing to listen. Of course if I was going to run Mandriva I'd have to get rid of KDE first. ;) |
| gus3 May 16, 2008 9:56 AM EDT |
The same services running does not make two systems equally secure. One system running WU-FTP as its only service is not as secure as another system running vsftp as its only service. I have posted a more complete view of Debian's current situation at http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/27265/ |
| rijelkentaurus May 16, 2008 10:05 AM EDT |
@h, Mepis is indeed quite fugly and goofy looking (they never have really pursued a true beautification process, IMO) but it's always been great distro and very easy to use. In fact, it was the first distro I used for an extended period. They lack the organization that some distros have, a common problem with distros essentially gunned by one person, Warren in this case. Still, he does a great job with it. And the software selection in Mepis, as it is Debian-based, is really about the same as in Ubuntu. I heartily recommend Mepis to newcomers...I just wish the wireless setup was a little easier. Wireless in Mandriva and PCLOS is an absolute breeze. |
| garymax May 16, 2008 10:49 AM EDT |
Anymore, when a Slackware user sees an Ubuntu article they just smile and get back to work. I think it might be time for another Slackware article. I think I will cover Slackware in the home office this time around. :-) |
| bigg May 16, 2008 11:12 AM EDT |
> Of course if I was going to run Mandriva I'd have to get rid of KDE first. ;) If you haven't used Mandriva's GNOME edition, it's pretty darn good. I personally like the way it looks better than Ubuntu, although I will say there aren't all that many differences these days. |
| tracyanne May 16, 2008 1:07 PM EDT |
@cabrehQuoting:Read my post entirely as well. I also don't have to go to the command line on my many systems running Ubuntu to do configuration. If you had read my post init's entirety you would have noticed the following Quoting:in fact in the almost 8 years I've used Mandrake/Mandriva, I've never had to use the Command Line to configure Mandrake/Mandriva, which when I started using Mandrake was a real bonus. So if you are finding Ubuntu to be as good (as in as easy to use and configure as Mandriva) it means that Ubuntu has finally caught up to Mandriva, and is finally living upt to the hype. |
| jdixon May 16, 2008 8:50 PM EDT |
> Anymore, when a Slackware user sees an Ubuntu article they just smile and get back to work. What do you mean, anymore? Did we ever do anything else? :) |
| dinotrac May 16, 2008 10:22 PM EDT |
>They also found the adept package manager to be a bit more difficult to use. All of the new users found Synaptic to be to their liking. Kubuntu is one of the few Linux distributions (perhaps the only one, now that I think about it) that I have truly despised. As it is, my wife still glares at me for not finding the time to take it off her desktop. Adept is just one reason. Why in blue blazes not use the very lovely Synaptic? It's easy and it works. Lovely. Must have been decided by the same rocket scientists who decided that Kubuntu should be recognizable as *buntu more than as a KDE. Yuck. They end up with a KDE-based distro that seems more like GNOME. The Comic Book Guy award for "Worst Distro Ever", goes to.... |
| cabreh May 24, 2008 1:19 AM EDT |
Been away to Switzerland for a while so the replys come a little late. @gus3 >The same services running does not make two systems equally secure. One system running WU-FTP as its only service is not as secure as another system running vsftp as its only service. I guess that's why Ubuntu uses vsftpd as the default ftpd server. Or didn't you know that already? @bigg > If you haven't used Mandriva's GNOME edition, it's pretty darn good. I personally like the way it looks better than Ubuntu, although I will say there aren't all that many differences these days. Of course I tried the Gnome on Mandriva. And just what looks better? If you are talking about the brown theme, well I have figured out how to make Gnome fit my tastes. It isn't brown. But it doesn't look like the Mandriva theme either. As I said, what is BETTER in Mandriva than Ubuntu? Other than a cosmetic choice. I haven't seen anything other than personal preferences mentioned so far. Which I guess goes back to my original messages. It's just a preference that matters. There isn't really anything better about any one distribution than another. It simply what you are comfortable with. @tracyanne The second posting (where I said I meant to add more to my post) was where I answered the part about Ubuntu having "caught up" to the older Mandriva distribution. |
| gus3 May 24, 2008 2:23 AM EDT |
Quoting:I guess that's why Ubuntu uses vsftpd as the default ftpd server. Or didn't you know that already?My point is that security goes far beyond "what services are running?". Ubuntu's trust in Debian is not merely mis-guided; it's dangerous. |
| bigg May 24, 2008 3:58 AM EDT |
@cabreh: Here's a link you might want to check out: http://d1.dir.ac2.yahoo.com/Social_Science/Linguistics_and_H... It's for English as a second language programs. I wrote "I personally like the way it looks better than Ubuntu" and you responded "I haven't seen anything other than personal preferences mentioned so far" which indicates that the English language is your obstacle to understanding my post. If you follow that link you will be able to find language schools in any region of the world. |
| cabreh May 24, 2008 4:26 AM EDT |
@bigg Being a Canadian who is living in Europe and who's first language is English I rather doubt I need any English language training. However maybe you could since your statement of Mandriva looking better than Ubuntu is in actual fact a personal preference. If you see that differently, maybe you could give a further explanation on exactly how that isn't a personal preference. @gus3 Of course security goes further that what is running. But, since there have been security holes in everything including the kernel itself, trying to imply that one security fault in one item used by Ubuntu makes Ubuntu less secure than any other distribution is absurd. If Slackware puts out something with a security problem does that make all the distribution who use it as a base mis-guided? |
| bigg May 24, 2008 5:07 AM EDT |
@cabreh: Now you're trolling. You were comparing Mandriva as a KDE distro and Ubuntu as a GNOME distro. I kindly suggested that you could try Mandriva GNOME if you hadn't already. "I personally like the way it looks better than Ubuntu" "your statement of Mandriva looking better than Ubuntu is in actual fact a personal preference" You might wish to look up "personally" in the dictionary. I do not see how anyone could take my statement as anything other than a statement of preference. I don't understand what your motivation could possibly be to keep attacking what I said. |
| cabreh May 24, 2008 5:24 AM EDT |
@bigg Maybe you can tell me what you were responding to in my posting? This thread was started on a topic of Ubuntu getting too much media coverage (or blog postings or whatever). Somehow along the way it became Ubuntu being inferior to some other distributions. I asked how the other distribution were in fact "better" than Ubuntu and all I could see coming back was personal preferences. When I stated that you somehow though I need English language instruction. So, first "attack" to you. I did not attack your reply to me other than to ask just how my statement that "personal preference does not a better distribution make" was actually in error. I do know exactly what personally means. That was my point to begin with and I could not understand what you were trying to tell me other than what i had said. If you go back and look at all the postings you will find that is exactly what I was saying all along. |
| jdixon May 24, 2008 7:43 AM EDT |
Cabreh, you do know that your combative posting style isn't gaining you anything, don't you? |
| gus3 May 24, 2008 8:18 AM EDT |
Quoting:If Slackware puts out something with a security problem does that make all the distribution who use it as a base mis-guided?If the security problem is something caused by an original app dev, no. However, if Patrick Volkerding were to muck around in vsftp and cause a security hole in it, then yes, it would be his fault, and downstream developers and users could no longer trust him as much as they do today. Now, substitute "Debian devs" for "Patrick Volkerding", and "OpenSS*" for "vsftp", and you'll see why your defense of Ubuntu is mis-guided. |
| tracyanne May 24, 2008 5:08 PM EDT |
Quoting:As I said, what is BETTER in Mandriva than Ubuntu? Other than a cosmetic choice. Mandriva be it the KDE version or the GNOME version is better because it has Mandriva Linux Control Centre, that's not a cosmetic choice. It's better because it uses a root user with a password that is seperate from the ordinary user, this too is not a cosmetic choice. It's better because logging in as root is forbidden. The use of sudo and it's variations that mean the current user's password enables system modification makes Ubuntu/Kubuntu EdUbuntu etc that much less secure than Mandriva. Ubuntu is better at one thing, marketing. That's probably why so many technically competent Windows users are also using Ubuntu, and they bring their ignorance informed arrogance with them. And that, is probably why the Ubuntu forums are not in the least interested in supporting LINdependence day, and why their forum administrator deleted my post requesting help from Ubuntu users. |
| herzeleid May 24, 2008 5:56 PM EDT |
> it has Mandriva Linux Control Centre, that's not a cosmetic choice. For newbies that's a big plus, but for experienced unix admins, it doesn't matter. Suse has yast, but I edit config files and send a sighup instead. > It's better because logging in as root is forbidden. I'm sure that could be changed. |
| montezuma May 24, 2008 6:29 PM EDT |
Wow these distro comparisons are a tad superficial. Surely if you have used linux for more than three years (as I'm sure most people here have) it makes precious little difference. What does make some difference is what you get used to and feel comfortable with. I use Ubuntu but I'm sure I could get used to Slack or Mandriva or Debian or Suse. Gentoo would be a stretch ;-) |
| tracyanne May 24, 2008 8:54 PM EDT |
@ herzeleid, MCC made a huge difference when I first started using Mandrake, and of course one could make Mandriva less secure by removing the constraint on logging in as root. The point here is that the default setting forbids it, as the default setting requires a separate root user, and doesn't enable arbitrary users to make system changes. @montezuma, When you've been using Linux for a long while, it makes little difference, outside of what look and feel you are most comfortable with. The point is what exists that makes administration easy for a new user, that also doesn't compromise security. I give my new Linux users Mandriva, because it's much easier to control what they can and can't access, while at the same time when they do need to access those areas, they have to think very carefully about it. In other words when necessary they have access to a central place for doing system administration, but they can't do it arbitrarily, as is possible with Ubuntu, just by supplying their own password. Indeed it's highly unlikely, because it is onerous entering a separate root password (and I ensure that it is, by supplying them with strong passwords), they are less likely to do anything to wreck their system until they are sufficiently familiar with Linux, and it's also unlikely that Children or grandchildren will cause any damage. |
| montezuma May 25, 2008 6:56 AM EDT |
@tracyanne. Hmm I am trying to think of the times I have wrecked a system in Ubuntu. It has been a pretty rare occurrence and iirc only when performing rather complex cli gymnastics. Things a newbie might fiddle with would be: add a printer; change themes; add packages using synaptic; change screen resolution; fiddle with desktop effects if they are adventurous. None of these is likely to break anything (maybe the last if you are unlucky). My daughter is a newbie and she uses Ubuntu on 3 different systems and fiddles endlessly with things. Never had a broken system to deal with. The biggest hassle has been when add on hardware hasn't worked (ipods, printers cameras). Never have I had a borked system unless I did it myself trying something complex from the cli. |
| ColonelPanik May 25, 2008 7:09 AM EDT |
What Linux community? There is no Pan-Linux movement! Never will be until the first two generations of geeks die off. |
| cabreh May 25, 2008 8:20 AM EDT |
@tracyanne In Ubuntu only the installer of the system has sudo rights by default. Not all users. This is the same for Mnndriva except instead of using your own password you have to use the root password which you set yourself. I personally see no difference here. Do you? As herzeleid and montezuma have said/implied people used to Linux would have no trouble using any of the distributions. I had stated that it's been a while since I HAD to use the command line in Ubuntu. That was not to say I don't. It's quite often easier to quickly edit a config file than to use a graphical interface. And as to the Control center I don't find much of anything there that I don't have via a menu in Ubuntu. @jdixon I thought I was being rather polite in my replies to people who had not done things like imply I needed English lessons. And even then I think I was rather restrained. Could you show me where I have been combative please. I am always willing to try and change my ways when I see I am wrong. |
| cabreh May 25, 2008 8:24 AM EDT |
@gus3 I would say that my trust in Debian is what is mis-guided. Not Ubuntu. It was Debian who did the deed. Ubuntu simply used the standard Debian package and ended up having the same problem as everyone else using the Debian package. As would be the case in your Slackware example. It would be Slackware who was at fault. |
| tracyanne May 25, 2008 3:41 PM EDT |
Quoting:I personally see no difference here. Do you? I do, the scenerio you've painted for Ubuntu means that the installer is also the administrator, it's only marginally better than what happens on Windows. Get my password, on Mandriva, and you get may account, get my password on Ubuntu and you get the keys to the kingdom. Ubuntu is less secure than a Linux system that implements security properly, it's that simple. |
| tracyanne May 25, 2008 3:50 PM EDT |
@monte it is exactly your daughter (well their daughters, and sons, and grandchildren) that I want to keep out of the system, and for very specific reasons, so they can't change things on my ladies. Those reasons are because of what their daughters, and sons, and grandchildren were able to do to wreck the windows computers they used to have. They have very strict instructions not to let anyone have the root password, which they keep in a safe place. I can't trust Ubuntu to give me that sort of security. |
| montezuma May 25, 2008 5:49 PM EDT |
@tracy Yeah but they don't. In Ubuntu you need to enable sudo access manually to all but the first user account. My kids don't have sudo access.... |
| tracyanne May 25, 2008 6:07 PM EDT |
monte, the point remains, 1 password and anyone has keys to the kingdom. I'll stick to belt and braces, I think you'll find my people are less likely to loose their pants. Ubuntu's philosophy of giving the owner some minimal extra convenience, reduces security, something I'm not about to do to my ladies. And it really is a pain in the arse, as far as I'm concerned, having to type in a password every time you want to do a different System admin function, it's actually worse than the nag prompts on Windows. That is the one thing that really annoys me about my media centre, it runs MythBuntu. |
| jdixon May 25, 2008 6:40 PM EDT |
> Could you show me where I have been combative please. Cabreh, if I have to point it out, it's almost certain that my doing so won't do any good. I accept your word that you don't mean to come across that way, and I'm probably merely being overly sensitive. I agree that you were more restrained than I would have been over the English comment, for what it's worth. Tracyanne: > 1 password and anyone has keys to the kingdom. I'll stick to belt and braces. I agree, but it's a problem which could easily be worked around by treating the first Ubuntu account created as a root account and not using it as a user account. Of course, that's not the Ubuntu way, so... |
| cabreh May 26, 2008 1:17 AM EDT |
@jdixon > I agree, but it's a problem which could easily be worked around by treating the first Ubuntu account created as a > root account and not using it as a user account. Of course, that's not the Ubuntu way, so. I agree jdixon as that is exactly what I do on my servers. I have an "administrator" account that is used only for admin work. @tracyanne >means that the installer is also the administrator Well, yes. As the systems administrator where I work that is exactly the case. And if I install my system at home I am also the administrator there. Of course at work and on my home servers I do as above. On my workstation I just use my personal login since I have the experience to do it that way. I would imagine anyone who installs their own system will do it one of those two ways since if they are doing an install they will be the person who needs admin permissions to add programs they want. I also figure that if they can get my password they can also get the root password. |
| tracyanne May 26, 2008 3:02 AM EDT |
cabreh, fair enough. I prefer to give my ladies as much security as possible until they are confident enough to make the decision themselves - they might never attain that confidence, but I do my best to help them learn, something that wasn't encouraged on their previous system. |
| cabreh May 26, 2008 5:42 AM EDT |
@tracyanne Agreed. At work on our Windows systems we have it set that nobody can install anything. For Linux we will lock it down as tightly. For beginners it's best to not be able to install things as long as they have a support person who could perhaps just login remotely and do the install for them. Much safer that way. |
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