Just what I thought would happen
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| garymax May 01, 2008 9:15 PM EDT |
Here it is about 1 week into the ubuntu 8.04 release and people are making suggestions for ubuntu 8.10. This fast paced activity needs to slow down so more bugs can be worked out. In other words 8.10 shouldn't be on anyone's radar right now. I think this adds fuel to the suggestion that there is a lot of hype around ubuntu instead of substance. Tend to the bugs in 8.04 before even mentioning 8.10... Geez... |
| jezuch May 02, 2008 3:19 AM EDT |
Quoting:This fast paced activity needs to slow down so more bugs can be worked out. Right... Quoting:There are some rather large things in this list and so I doubt all of them will be implemented in time but it is always better to dream big and get as much done as possible. In other words, quantity, not quality. Quoting:Otherwise we’ll have everything done in a month and be left with nothing else to do (except fix bugs, of course). And that's bad how? |
| devnet May 02, 2008 7:25 AM EDT |
There's quite a few bugs that haven't been fixed in over a year at Ubuntu. For me, that's the tipper...I won't use an open source product that rejects patches provided by community members and won't fix bugs for years at a time. I joined other communities where bug fixes are made IMMEDIATELY and if not sooner. Until Ubuntu fixes this, I won't be a fan. |
| tuxchick May 02, 2008 7:30 AM EDT |
jezuch, they don't fix bugs. It's against policy. As it says in the famous aumix bug report:Quoting: Since the Gutsy release is already out, aumix for Gutsy has entered a stable "buggy state". Any new package would cause the buggy state to be changed, thus require very careful consideration before deploying, and is rejected so far. Hardy has no such requirement ('freezing buggy state'), thus is free to receive newer packages. The final goal is to make Gutsy "Stably Buggy", not changing buggy state all the time. You may recall that the problem with aumix was it was compiled with an incorrect option and wouldn't start. Of course this meant that it could not re-compiled and fixed, oh no, because it takes giant teams of rocket scientists and nuclear scientists and a crack joint task force from the United Nations to do all the necessary research and preparations first. And they'll sit on their thumbs and hope that it magically repairs itself in the next release. Note how the unimportance of bugfixes is reinforced several times in the article. |
| techiem2 May 02, 2008 8:27 AM EDT |
Quoting:You may recall that the problem with aumix was it was compiled with an incorrect option and wouldn't start. This is probably my biggest beef with binary distros and one of the big reasons I love gentoo. With binary distros you install the packages you want and hope that the maintainers compiled them with the options you want/need. If not, you either do without, or compile the stuff yourself manually (thus not having it in your package list and making things more prone to breakage when you update). |
| bigg May 02, 2008 9:51 AM EDT |
@techiem2: You've evidently not tried Arch. I like the idea of Gentoo, but whatever some users say, it's still a lot more work than just doing some compiling in the background. With Arch you can update a package by downloading the PKGBUILD, changing the version number, and typing makepkg. That works most of the time. If you want to change an option, you just change the relevant line in the PKGBUILD and type makepkg. Much easier than compiling everything yourself just to get the correct options on a few packages. You can then install the package like any other, and pacman knows about it. A large number of Arch users are former Gentoo users for reasons along these lines. On garymax's point, yes, I agree. It's frustrating and now I remember why I left in the first place. Running Ubuntu has been like getting together with an ex. You always remember the good times. Then you get back together and you can only think about the small annoyances that were the reason you broke up. Never heard of 'buggy stable', but that is a perfect description for Ubuntu. |
| gus3 May 02, 2008 10:01 AM EDT |
Okay, question from a Slackware/SLAMD64 user: When one finds a bug in a bundled application, is it more appropriate to report the bug to the distribution maintainers, or to the application developers? I've always reported it to the developers, but then again, I wouldn't expect Patrick Volkerding or Fred Emmott to fix every bug in Emacs. |
| techiem2 May 02, 2008 11:12 AM EDT |
@bigg: Nope, haven't tried Arch. I'll have to do that sometime. Of course, I'm also one of those odd people that enjoys watching everything compile.... |
| jdixon May 02, 2008 2:25 PM EDT |
> ...is it more appropriate to report the bug to the distribution maintainers, or to the application developers? Well, the Slackware ideal is to report it to the developers, but I'm not sure how that works in other distributions. It's my understanding that many distributions make so many changes to the applications that the developers disavow ownership and tell you to contact the distribution maintainers. |
| jhansonxi May 02, 2008 2:31 PM EDT |
In general, report it to the distro maintainers first. That way they can have a chance to confirm that it's not specific to their build. If you can reproduce it in another distro or find an upstream bug report that you think matches, note it in the distro bug report. Reporting everything upstream results in the upstream maintainers being overwhelmed by reports from many versions of many distros, some of which are specific to the user's hardware or the distro's build. |
| tuxchick May 02, 2008 2:34 PM EDT |
Thanks gus, I needed a laugh. File a bug report! guffaw. Oh wait, you're talking about Slackware. OK, that makes sense. Generally bug reports should go to the distribution first, just so they can snarl "you should report that upstream" without telling you where upstream is or why they can't just forward it themselves. Or in some cases, actually do something about it. Perhaps nothing as daring as actually fixing the bug, but they might appreciate an opportunity to assign it a priority and ask for information, even when they already have complete information. |
| bigg May 02, 2008 5:03 PM EDT |
Gus, can you get antialiased fonts in Emacs on Slackware? I've failed in my own distros. |
| helios May 02, 2008 6:19 PM EDT |
I'm also one of those odd people that enjoys watching everything compile.... Thank God! I can now point to at least one other freak that suffers my affliction. "quiet" boot options should be illegal. h |
| gus3 May 02, 2008 8:04 PM EDT |
@bigg: If I run Emacs in gnome-terminal, yes, the fonts are anti-aliased. ;-) I'm sure you could get the same in KDE's terminal program. |
| dinotrac May 03, 2008 12:58 AM EDT |
Bigg and gus3 -- Don't waste your time on anti-aliased fonts. They are completely pointless. All of those stories about alias abductions and code circles and area 0x33 are nothing more than the delusional ramblings of conspiracy nuts. The thing that crashed at Redmond in '87 was just a Vic-20, not an alias spacebox. So relax. Bleekdap gorpnab, er, I mean Cheers. |
| jezuch May 03, 2008 2:18 AM EDT |
Quoting:"quiet" boot options should be illegal. I second that!! |
| jdixon May 03, 2008 3:41 AM EDT |
Speaking of Slackware, 12.1 is officially out as of Thursday afternoon. I posted a notice to the newswire. |
| Sander_Marechal May 05, 2008 1:31 PM EDT |
Quoting:When one finds a bug in a bundled application, is it more appropriate to report the bug to the distribution maintainers, or to the application developers? It depends on the bug. Usually I first try to find existing bug reports in the distro and upstream. Then I report it to the distro and include the upstream bug reference if available. If there's no upstream bug reference then I try to find out if it's a distro-specific bug. Usually it's easy to tell. When appropriate, I report it upstream as well, refer to the distro bug in it and then update the distro bug to point back to the upstream bug as well. |
| bigg May 05, 2008 4:07 PM EDT |
> Speaking of Slackware, 12.1 is officially out as of Thursday afternoon. I've been running it in Virtualbox for a couple of days. It feels comfortable after running Arch. Only problem is that I can't get higher than 640x480 resolution. I haven't had any big problems but want to move away from a rolling release distro at work. I really like "simple" distros that do what you tell them to do and nothing more. Do you have a secret for handling dependencies? Thus far I have installed the package, then run it in a terminal, and check the error that shows up. There has to be a better way. > If I run Emacs in gnome-terminal, yes, the fonts are anti-aliased. ;-) Thanks, I was actually wondering if Emacs-gtk had antialiased fonts. Not that there is anything wrong with gnome-terminal. |
| garymax May 05, 2008 5:25 PM EDT |
There's just something good about hitting ./configure && make && make install then watching the terminal as the lines of code streak by. You're watching as the code is being compiled just for your machine and architecture. It's like watching the cookies bake, the cake rise, the turkey...well, you get the idea. Now I'm hungry. I'm also beat up. I've just come from another Linux news site where I gave my 2 cents (or pence) in favor of Slackware. I was told that I was conceited, was using a "hobbled" distribution that had all of the charm of "newly-discovered pumice", and one that lacked a package manager. Needless to say, I had to respond. My favorite is when detractors say Slackware doesn't resolve dependencies therefore it has no package manager! If it ain't easy, then it lacks any and everything... Oh well! :-) |
| jdixon May 05, 2008 5:40 PM EDT |
> Do you have a secret for handling dependencies? Not really. :( The "true-Slackware" way is to use the Slackbuilds scripts at http://slackbuilds.org/ and similar sites to build your own packages from source, then use the Slackware package tools to install them. The non-"true-Slackware" way is to use packages like those at http://www.linuxpackages.net/ which include a dependency listing and possibly to use slapt-get to install them. Interestingly enough, linuxpackages.net appears to be down at the moment. |
| jdixon May 05, 2008 5:45 PM EDT |
> There's just something good about hitting ./configure && make && make install then watching the terminal as the lines of code streak by. Well, I much preferred using checkinstall to build a package rather than using make install. However, checkinstall is broken in Slackware 12.0 and apparently 12.1. :( The page was last updated in August 2007, and promises a fixed version "soon". |
| webmining May 05, 2008 5:53 PM EDT |
What is Web2DB?
Web2DB is a web data extraction service. It takes unstructured data from web html pages and converting it into structured records. You tell us where you want to search, what you want to get, and how you want it formatted. We do all the work and send the results directly to you. The database format could be Excel, CSV, Access, MSSQL, and MySQL. What are the benefits? It will save your hundreds of thousands of man-hours and dollars! You can generate sales leads, harvest product pricing data, duplicate an online database, capture financial data,real estate data, job postings, auction info and more via our leading web screen scraping services For more information, please visit our website: http://www.knowlesys.com |
| jdixon May 05, 2008 6:23 PM EDT |
> What is Web2DB? And, of course, the screen shots on their pages show IE and Microsoft Access. Predictable. Just once it would be nice if the spam was at least for a Linux product. I've used the contact link to send a message to the staff. |
| garymax May 05, 2008 8:01 PM EDT |
@jdixon I used checkinstall as well but now use build scripts. Either way, you still see the lines of code whizzing by. But the script is controlling all of it for you. Cheers! |
| tuxchick May 05, 2008 8:32 PM EDT |
This will probably all disappear, but I tried: failure notice From: MAILER-DAEMON@hsp021.carpathiahost.net To: carla@bratgrrl.com Date: Mon May 5 21:29:58 2008 Spam Status: Spamassassin -5% probability of being spam. Full report: No, score=-2.0 Hi. This is the qmail-send program at hsp021.carpathiahost.net. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. : This message is looping: it already has my Delivered-To line. (#5.4.6) --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18522 invoked by uid 110); 6 May 2008 00:29:58 -0400 Delivered-To: 160-default@knowlesys.com Received: (qmail 18519 invoked by uid 110); 6 May 2008 00:29:58 -0400 Delivered-To: 160-web2dd@knowlesys.com Received: (qmail 18516 invoked from network); 6 May 2008 00:29:58 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.foo.net) (12.169.174.3) by hsp021.carpathiahost.net with (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 6 May 2008 00:29:57 -0400 Received: from foo.foo.net (foo.net [22.33.44.55] (may be forged)) by mail.foo.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m464Tt9C011689 for ; Mon, 5 May 2008 21:29:55 -0700 From: Carla Schroder To: web2dd@knowlesys.com Subject: ah, fresh new spammers Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 21:29:54 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: Thanks for spamming the LXer forums. You're one more vendor I can cross off my list for good. The posts will be deleted, so here is a copy: "webmining May 05, 2008 9:53 PM What is Web2DB? Web2DB is a web data extraction service. It takes unstructured data from web html pages and converting it into structured records. You tell us where you want to search, what you want to get, and how you want it formatted. We do all the work and send the results directly to you. The database format could be Excel, CSV, Access, MSSQL, and MySQL. What are the benefits? It will save your hundreds of thousands of man-hours and dollars! You can generate sales leads, harvest product pricing data, duplicate an online database, capture financial data,real estate data, job postings, auction info and more via our leading web screen scraping services For more information, please visit our website: [HYPERLINK@www.knowlesys.com]" Sounds like a slimy product anyway. |
| gus3 May 05, 2008 8:56 PM EDT |
"carpathiahost"? Gee, no spam org ever works out of Russia, does it? |
| jezuch May 06, 2008 3:20 AM EDT |
Quoting:"carpathiahost"? Gee, no spam org ever works out of Russia, does it? Maybe I don't get the reference, but for me Karpaty (as we call them in the area) are not in Russia... |
| bigg May 06, 2008 8:26 AM EDT |
> The non-"true-Slackware" way is to use packages like those at [HYPERLINK@www.linuxpackages.net] which include a dependency listing and possibly to use slapt-get to install them. Guess I'm not a real Slacker, but I've got gslapt installed with slacky.eu in the repos, and they've got almost everything I use (for 12.0) at work. The few other pieces are available from slackbuilds.org. After the slacky repos are updated for 12.1 - I doubt that I can mix the two - I will be doing a hard drive install. I'll be either a Slacker or a Mandrivite in a couple of weeks. I may be the only one in the world debating between those two distros. |
| thenixedreport May 06, 2008 9:07 AM EDT |
Quoting:I'm also one of those odd people that enjoys watching everything compile.... That's nothing. Here's what I considered entertainment for the weekend a few years ago: 1.) Installing windows on a virtual machine or real machine. 2.) Installing a copy of Visual Studio. 3.) Installing a copy of Office..... Yeah... I know... that's pretty sad... |
| jdixon May 06, 2008 9:10 AM EDT |
> Guess I'm not a real Slacker, but I've got gslapt installed with slacky.eu in the repos,... Hmm, I guess the tongue in cheek wasn't obvious enough. :) You'd probably get flamed on alt.os.linux.slackware for using gslapt, but I doubt anyone else cares. I've looked at slapt-get and gslapt, but they didn't seem to make things enough easier to bother with. I'll have to try them again if I ever decide to install GSB, which I may do. |
| bigg May 06, 2008 9:25 AM EDT |
> I guess the tongue in cheek wasn't obvious enough. :) Mine was tongue in cheek, too. I'm just morally opposed to using :). I didn't know slapt-get or gslapt were available until I read your post above. |
| Steven_Rosenber May 06, 2008 11:47 AM EDT |
Quoting:The "true-Slackware" way is to use the Slackbuilds scripts With Slackware 12, I used Robby Workman's packages: http://rlworkman.net/pkgs/ His are quite reliable. But once I started using Wolvix, a) it had everything I needed and b) I learned to love Gslapt/slapt-get; don't run Slack without it. |
| jdixon May 06, 2008 11:54 AM EDT |
> His are quite reliable. Not surprising. Robbie is good. I believe he also provides some of the packages on slackbuilds.org. |
| gus3 May 06, 2008 8:15 PM EDT |
He also provided the upgrade guide to Slackware 12.0. It was quite informative. |
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