Hmmm
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| rijelkentaurus Apr 23, 2008 10:57 AM EDT |
Quoting: Canonical on the other hand has strangely enough found that their money is coming from the desktop sector. Even though they envisioned that server support would be their market it seems that they are making more now on the desktop side of the house. This comes from their commitment to working in developing generic Linux for the OEMs, as well as their recent alliance with Dell. Oh and did I mention Sun is certifying Ubuntu Hardy? I am calling BS on the money until someone gives me numbers to prove otherwise, I think they are after that elusive "mind share" we recently covered in another thread, I think few people are gonna pay for desktop support. Without third-party crapware, format-locked-in Office suites or software-locked hardware configurations, I don't think you make money on the desktop. And again it seems that "Ubuntu hating" means not being an Ubuntu lover...if I say "I prefer Debian" they say "Why do you hate us???". Pffttt!!! |
| zenarcher Apr 23, 2008 11:22 AM EDT |
It seems to me there should be something to be said for the "freedom" part of GNU/Linux. Do you have to "love" something, or else you "hate" it? Is there really a need to bash any O/S? How about what works for you? I used MS from DOS 5.0 through XP. Then, I found Linux....and actually managed to get a working system. I haven't had any MS software on my systems for the past three years. Do I hate MS? Well, I don't like some of their practices....but I don't "hate" them. I have the freedom of choice and Linux works best for me. Ubuntu? I don't hate it. Then again, I've spent 3 years trying to get this Ubuntu system, which I read about continually, to work for me. Thus far, I have not managed to get an install, with everything I want working with Ubuntu. So, do I hate it? Nope. I merely relegate it to the same category as MS....it's not for me. If it works for someone else, that's great. I do get a bit frustrated when nearly every "How To" article I find is related to Ubuntu, but I realize it's popular, so I surf on until I find something related to an .rpm based distro. I used OpenSUSE for about two years and was very happy with it. Then, I went back to try Mandriva again and found it to be much more suitable and easy for me to configure and use. So, it was out with OpenSUSE and in with Mandriva. I don't hate OpenSUSE, either, nor Fedora, which I have also used. I don't even "hate" Novell for whatever agreements they have made with MS. I just find Mandriva to be the best distro for me, personally. I think there is too much time spent on "loving," "hating" or bashing an O/S or distro. They are all just operating systems, after all....and I don't think any of them are going to bring about the destruction of the planet, nor peace to the universe. So, I'll just use what works for me and continue to search for Linux "How To's" that aren't Ubuntu specific. |
| azerthoth Apr 23, 2008 11:22 AM EDT |
Knocking Ubuntu isn't all that new either. I knock Ubuntu because of the false hype of it being the easiest, newest, shiniest. It's none of these things, I can come up with several that are easier to use, at it's newest on the day of release its packages are ~4 months out of date, and as far as eye candy goes Beryl had been dead for a few months when they finally put out a release with it. I'm not saying that it isnt a decent distro, just not the distro that the users claim it is. Compared to RH as this author did, it's a shining jewel. Compared to the newest Sabayon its a poor cousin. Heck even though I dont use it, Mandriva outshines Ubuntu in a head to head usability contest. (nod to Tracyanne for getting me to finally try Mandriva proper) |
| jdixon Apr 23, 2008 11:26 AM EDT |
> Without third-party crapware, format-locked-in Office suites or software-locked hardware configurations, I don't think you make money on the desktop. Depends on how much support you have to offer, but in general I'm afraid you're right. > And again it seems that "Ubuntu hating" means not being an Ubuntu lover... That's the impression I've been getting. Especially from the article in question. From the article: > ...but overall the support for Ubuntu is heads and shoulders above the rest. Does he really believe that? If so, I've got a bridge and some ocean front real estate I'd love to sell him. |
| rijelkentaurus Apr 23, 2008 12:03 PM EDT |
Quoting: Compared to the newest Sabayon its a poor cousin. Heck even though I dont use it, Mandriva outshines Ubuntu in a head to head usability contest. (nod to Tracyanne for getting me to finally try Mandriva proper) Agreed on Mandriva, I'll second the nod to TA, and Sidux (not as pretty as Sabayon, I think that might be the prettiest distro out of the box) also (IMO) runs circles around Ubuntu. I find Red Hat to be far more usable also, however, and if you like to use commercial applications then Red Hat is the best choice as those apps are often targeted directly at Red Hat. To each their own, though. |
| salparadise Apr 23, 2008 12:20 PM EDT |
I've used every Ubuntu/Kubuntu from the first beta through to the last release and I'll probably upgrade to 8.04 when it's out.
Lots of people tend to support, and secretly wish success for, the underdog only to turn on it/them once success is achieved.
I've read some silly anti-Ubuntu stuff on Mac forums of late. It's a sign of it's success as far as I can see. |
| tuxchick Apr 23, 2008 12:25 PM EDT |
Metoo on the endless silly Ubuntu hype. They raise expectations so high disappointment is inevitable.Quoting: So rather than complain about Ubuntu being inferior or for noobs, take a good hard look at yourselves. What can you do for your distro? What can you do for Linux? Ubuntu is bringing people into the GNU/Linux fold. Excellent point! |
| rijelkentaurus Apr 23, 2008 1:05 PM EDT |
Excellent point, yes, but mostly a lesson in what money can buy. Why doesn't Debian get the press Ubuntu gets, when Ubuntu is nothing without Debian? Because of the money, because of Shuttleworth's millions, not because of the "community". "Community" alone gets you Debian, PCLOS, Slackware, etc...fabulous distros "normal" people know nothing about. That can be a hard pill to swallow...and then to be told essentially that "your community needs to work harder, like ours". Hard work is not the difference maker in why many people view Ubuntu as being Linux itself. (Around here in NC, Red Hat is like that, again following the money). |
| tracyanne Apr 23, 2008 2:16 PM EDT |
Quoting:if I say "I prefer Debian" they say "Why do you hate us???". Some of my best friends us Ubuntu. |
| tracyanne Apr 23, 2008 2:24 PM EDT |
Quoting:This is where the Ubuntu community comes into play and has made Ubuntu a popular distribution. ................................................................... This is where the Ubuntu haters need to sit back and think. If they are using a RH derivative, now might be the time for them to focus themselves on growing a community like that of Ubuntu. This bloke is talking about Linux and Ubuntu as if Ubuntu is the only Linux Distro that has a community. He also implies that it's the community that has made Ubuntu popular, not that Ubuntu is well marketed with a large injection of cash from a very wealthy backer that has made it as popular as it is. I know personally that Mandriva has a very active and thriving community, I've had enough experience with the Linux communities to know that this is also true of many, if not most Linux distros. I might point out here,on a personal note, that I'm not personally all that happy with the response I got from the Ubuntu community recently, it was, from my experience, somewhat parochial, and the editors deleted my posting about LINdependence day. |
| jdixon Apr 23, 2008 2:47 PM EDT |
> ,,,I've had enough experience with the Linux communities to know that this is also true of many, if not most Linux distros. Agreed. He has a greatly exaggerated view of the Ubuntu community, and a similarly poor grasp of the communities surrounding the other distros. |
| pat Apr 23, 2008 3:18 PM EDT |
Is there something similar to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Training for any of the other Linux Desktop variations mentioned? This is one of the reasons I like Ubuntu, which we use at the local FreeGeek (http://www.freegeekcolumbus.org) on all of our machines. |
| DiBosco Apr 23, 2008 3:51 PM EDT |
>> Excellent point, yes, but mostly a lesson in what money can buy. W hy doesn't Debian get the press Ubuntu gets, when Ubuntu is nothing without Debian? Because of the money, because of Shuttleworth's millions, not because of the "community". |
| DiBosco Apr 23, 2008 3:52 PM EDT |
"Excellent point, yes, but mostly a lesson in what money can buy. W hy doesn't Debian get the press Ubuntu gets, when Ubuntu is nothing without Debian? Because of the money, because of Shuttleworth's millions, not because of the "community" This is the point discussed in another thread about marketing isn't it? We want Linux marketing and bringing to the public's attention so if Canonical do it the surely it's a good thing. I say this as someone who has only really used Mandriva and, am strangely, proud to use it. I guess what I'm even more proud of is to be part of a Linux community, even thought *buntu is not for me. |
| jdixon Apr 23, 2008 4:30 PM EDT |
> Is there something similar to... http://gentoo-wiki.com/Main_Page http://wiki.debian.org/ http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ http://docs.pclinuxos.com/HomePage http://www.mepis.org/docs/en/index.php/Main_Pagehttp://wiki.... http://slackwiki.org/Main_Page Simply search for "distribution name" wiki on Google for the distribution of your choice. Odds are you find one. Gentoo's is comparable to (possibly even better than) Ubuntu's. I can't speak for the others. |
| rijelkentaurus Apr 23, 2008 5:09 PM EDT |
Gentoo's documentation was always great. |
| Steven_Rosenber Apr 23, 2008 5:25 PM EDT |
Debian gets a lot of trickle down from Ubuntu, of that I am sure. Once you get involved in Linux, it's not long before you learn about the variety of distros, and soon enough you're trying them. It wouldn't hurt Debian users to say, "It's not any harder to install or use than Ubuntu, it may run faster, and chances are it'll boot and install on machines that don't like Ubuntu/Xubuntu." Sure, you need to read a bit before installing Debian, but only a little bit. And if you're doing anything with Ubuntu but a) devoting an entire drive to it with no partitioning, or b) installing it on a drive with Windows and hoping for the best, you'll need to do a little homework anyway. Ubuntu is a great thing -- I'm sure of that. But a user who is only exposed to Ubuntu is likely giving that project credit for a lot of things that are being developed elsewhere: the Linux kernel itself, the GNU userland, the X window system, GNOME, OpenOffice, KDE, and hundreds of other applications, projects and all of that. The fact that Ubuntu puts it together so well, again, is great. But Debian does a pretty great job, too. If you want to see a project that isn't out there selling itself to the unwashed masses, take a look at OpenBSD. I think it's a great system with a lot of positive aspects for the server, embedded applications as well as the desktop. But the developers behind it really could care less whether or not Joe Linux User (or Joe Windows User) even knows that it exists. They develop the project for themselves, and anybody else who wants to use it is welcome to do so. They're not worried about whether or not OpenBSD will ever take over the world. I expect that a lot of Debian developers, maintainers and users are the same way. It works for them, they like it, and they use it. If you like it, great. If not, it's not bothering them. I don't know how they feel about half of the 300+ distros out there being based on Debian, but it does give them a lot of power. Ubuntu has aspirations far above and beyond what most of the rest of the Linux and BSD projects are aiming for. Nothing wrong with that. I also use Ubuntu (although my old-and-getting-older hardware is increasingly unhappy with it), and I think it's doing nothing but good for Linux in particular and free software in general. As I used to say, the first distro to deal with my Alps Touchpad wins (Debian Lenny and Ubuntu 7.10 take that prize, although I suspect that the GNOME project did all the work). Now I say that the first distro to suspend/resume the Gateway Solo 1450 wins (no takers yet). A couple of years have almost passed since I discovered FOSS operating systems, and I'm still deliriously happy that all this stuff exists and, in large part, works so darn well. |
| flufferbeer Apr 23, 2008 6:01 PM EDT |
S_R,
You wrote
"It wouldn't hurt Debian users to say, "It's not any harder to install or use than Ubuntu, it may run faster, and chances are it'll boot and install on machines that don't like Ubuntu/Xubuntu." " Pretty much agree with this in regards to using Debian and/or Ubuntu. My own point is the fact that Debian is _officially_ supported on as many or more platforms than Ubuntu. I'm thinking now of Macintoshes based upon the PowerPC architecture. Sure, some Ubuntus are _Officially_ supported on PPC Macs, such as (I think) Dapper Drake and Feisty Fawn. However, the latest Ubuntus, Gutsy Gibbon and Hardy Heron, are _Community_ ports of Ubuntu for PPC, and not _Officially_-supported distros from Canonical. This Ubuntu limit for PPC Macs is bad and good. On the one hand, it means that those like myself often using Linux on PPC Macs cannot as easily use the latest Ubuntu, and sometimes, not even the latest Yellow Dog Linux or other non-Debian PPC distros. OTOH, the good from this is that Debian continues to maintain _Official_ support for PPC Macs just as it does for i386 and IA64 platforms. I'll continue to use and recommend Debian as the preferred non-OS-X10.x for PPC and i386 machines --- similar maybe to S_R. 2c (Now as I wrote earlier, if I could only get the gnash beta to work right in Debian Etch PPC pain-free w/o using wine or other darned mechanations!) |
| Steven_Rosenber Apr 23, 2008 6:11 PM EDT |
Since Debian (as well as NetBSD and OpenBSD) is continuing support for PPC, as well as a bunch of other architectures (I'm on the lookout for a SPARC box ...), I'm not too worried at this point. I never had much luck with Ubuntu/Xubuntu on PPC Macs. A lot of not booting and crashing. |
| tracyanne Apr 23, 2008 8:27 PM EDT |
Quoting:s there something similar to [HYPERLINK@wiki.ubuntu.com] for any of the other Linux Desktop variations mentioned? A simple google on "Mandriva Wiki" [url=http://www.google.com.au/search?q=mandriva wiki&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a]http://www.google.com.au/search?q=mandriva wiki&ie=utf-8&oe=...[/url] |
| cabreh Apr 24, 2008 1:14 AM EDT |
People, people people. Go back above and read your comments. You make his/her point of the article. Ubuntu isn't your choice of distro and therefore it's somehow wrong that Ubuntu gets all the attention. Why? If more people are using Ubuntu and are happy with it, shouldn't you be saying that it's their choice and welcome to the Linux community? I started using Linux back when you had to load twenty-some-odd floppy disks to get it installed. That was about 1994 for me. I've used on a regular basis RedHat, then Fedora and SUSE and Mandrake nee Mandrive. Someone said PCLinuxOS work out of the box better than Ubuntu so I tried that and I don't want to think about how many others. And the answer is that they don't work any better. They are all about the same. It's personal choice and how a distro "feels" TO YOU PERSONALLY that makes you stick with it. For me personally starting with Ubuntu 6.06 I felt at home and if everything didn't totally work "out of the box" it didn't on any other distro either. Ubuntu was where I changed from being a die-hard KDE I'll never use Gnome person to being a Gnome who needs KDE believer. You like KDE better? Fine. You like Mandriva better? Fine. But stop telling me and the many others who like the ease of use of Ubuntu that we are somehow wrong. And to the comment about Canonical "buying" it's popularity by marketing, just where have you seen all the ads? I haven;t seen any myself. I started using it by word of mouth. And from my mouth the organization I work for have started using it where they use Linux. Money has nothing to do with Ubuntu's popularity. If that was the case we'd all be using RHEL wouldn't we? |
| pat Apr 24, 2008 2:38 AM EDT |
You didn't follow the link jdixon/Tracyanne. I wasn't asking if they had a wiki or on-line documentation, follow the link, don't be scared, it goes to some wonderful things the Ubuntu Community is doing that I have not yet found with any other Desktop Linux. |
| jdixon Apr 24, 2008 2:54 AM EDT |
> Ubuntu isn't your choice of distro and therefore it's somehow wrong that Ubuntu gets all the attention. Hmm, I don't see where I said anything of the kind. > That was about 1994 for me. Likewise. > They are all about the same Agreed. Which is why, in spite of trying numerous distros out over the years, I've never seen any reason to switch from the one I started with: Slackware. > But stop telling me and the many others who like the ease of use of Ubuntu that we are somehow wrong. I haven't done so. But doesn't this directly contradict "They are all about the same"? I've disagreed with the statement that Ubuntu has better community support than other distros. I've agreed that some Ubuntu supporters take anything less than total agreement that Ubuntu is the greatest thing since sliced bread as Ubuntu hatred. And I've pointed to wiki's supporting the other distros in a direct response to a question asking if such existed. Anyone can use whatever distribution they want, including Ubuntu. I'm glad they decided to become a Linux user. But don't get upset when I don't agree that the computer world now revolves around Ubuntu. |
| tracyanne Apr 24, 2008 3:20 AM EDT |
@pat, as it happens I did follow the link.Quoting:But stop telling me and the many others who like the ease of use of Ubuntu that we are somehow wrong. The only problem with this assumption is that it assumes that the other Linuxes are not easy to use. Having been a Mandriva user for over 6 years, and having tried every release of Ubuntu, I can categorically state that Mandriva is easier to use and doesn't require that one learn CLI in order to configure it, and I know that that is still the case with Hardy Heron, because I've just got off the phone to a friend of mine who is currently setting up Hardy Heron. So lets get this out of the way right now, You are not wrong to be using Ubuntu, it's a fine Linux, my friend loves it, and it suits him to a T. Where you are wrong is in your assumption (and this seems to be an assumption that every other Ubuntu user makes) that Ubuntu is somehow easier to use and configure than any other Linux. |
| pat Apr 24, 2008 3:30 AM EDT |
I work in a fortune 500 company and I here more about Ubuntu than any other Desktop Linux, just in the building I work in. I would agree that the computer world doesn't revolve around Ubuntu or Linux in particular, but I would say that Ubuntu as a huge foot-print in the non-Linux computer world. And BTW, the question wasn't about if other distros had a wiki, you never clicked the link or read what was on the page that the link pointed too. Do that and you will see why Ubuntu is one of the best Linux distros for the desktop. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Training < - - - Ubuntu Desktop Linux Training Course. |
| cabreh Apr 24, 2008 3:34 AM EDT |
@jdixon Well for one thing everyone complains that Ubuntu is getting all the attention. You do realize that the reason is that more people are using Ubuntu than any other single distribution don't you? So, just what do you think the fickle media is going to target? It sure wont be Slackware. Sure I started out with Slackware, but in my old age (: I can't be bothered with all that work. I want a system that I can install on the majority of systems with the least problem From my experience that's Ubuntu. For just my own family use I have it installed on two AMD 64 bit system with Nvidia cards for our main workstations. The wireless built-in to my ASUS m2N32 motherboards just works (although I don't use it). I also have an HP 6820s laptop with an Intel 64 bit CPU with an ATI graphics card and everything works (yes including the wireless). At the office I have an HP 64 bit desktop with Intel graphics and everything there works as well. Not to mention the Office Dell servers I am running Ubuntu server on. So, I find it surprising that people keep complaining about how hard it is to get Ubuntu working. My experience is that the other distros I have tried were worse. Maybe YOU didn't say anything about not liking the amount of attention Ubuntu gets, but zenarcher, azerthoth and tuxchick did. I wasn't aiming my initial post at one particular person. Don't know why you took it that way. I was saying that putting almost all of the above comments together just proved beyond a doubt that the initial article was right. Someone writes about Ubuntu and the complaints start flying. I don't ever post against something unless the article was wrong. Seems to me the "basic" premise of the article is/was correct. |
| pat Apr 24, 2008 3:34 AM EDT |
@tracyanne, but you didn't read it. Did you download the instructor or the student training guides? Does Mandrivia have something equivalent? |
| pat Apr 24, 2008 3:36 AM EDT |
@cabreh -- I agree! |
| tracyanne Apr 24, 2008 3:37 AM EDT |
Quoting:Does Mandrivia have something equivalent? Yes. They have full LSI certification available. |
| tracyanne Apr 24, 2008 3:44 AM EDT |
So tell me pat cabreh, when are we going to see Ubuntu support for LINdependence Day? Or are you going to continue to ignore hte rest of the Linux community, except when someone says something you don't like. |
| azerthoth Apr 24, 2008 3:57 AM EDT |
I said nothing of the sort, I said its a decent distro that its users make grandiose claims about that while may be true in comparison to some distros it is not true when compared to all. I am not denigrating Ubuntu, it is a decent distro. Just not one that has ever lived up to the promise that it holds for being a great distro. But Cabreh, you did make a different generalization come true. "If they arent for Ubuntu then they must be against Ubuntu." |
| cabreh Apr 24, 2008 3:45 AM EDT |
@tracyanne
Let me see, when will Ubuntu (is that Canonical?) support LINdependance Day to install almost anything but Ubuntu? I don't know. I don't work for them. When did you contact them and ask? If you (or someone associated the the project) hasn't asked them and then complains they didn't help is like the person who asks a fellow "So, when did you stop beating your wife?". @azerthoth No I never said anything about people who aren't for Ubuntu are against it. Please only put words in your own mouth. I thought I quite clearly said that your choice of distor is YOUR choice and I'm happy with that. I just pointed out the way in which you slandered Ubuntu (users)? by insinuating people who use Ubuntu claim it's perfect when it isn't. I am an Ubuntu user who has had it work properly on every system I've tried installing it on. That doesn't mean it works any better that any other Linux distro on systems I haven't tried it on. But me saying it worked for me isn't any different than you saying worked for you. And I have never said that it is the be all and end all of Linux distos. Nor have I ever said you will never have any trouble with it. Perhaps you could tell me who has said it works everywhere and on everything as you seem to indicate? I must lead a pretty protected experience because I haven't heard anyone claim that yet. Just using the Ubuntu forums should be enough to show there are issues for people trying to use it. So does Windows for that matter if it isn't pre-installed. I have had systems totally reject Sabayon Linux for example. Wouldn't even start up. I didn't go out and write an article, I just threw it in the bin. Then got on with my life. Why be negative? And because it didn't work for me doesn't mean it wont for others. |
| jdixon Apr 24, 2008 5:47 AM EDT |
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Training Hmm.... The connection has timed out The server at wiki.ubuntu.com is taking too long to respond. Yeah, that's really a great reason to be using Ubuntu, isn't it. To be fair, the page did load one of the six times I tried, at which point I found it was about a training course pdf I had already downloaded to look at a few months ago. I haven't had time to look it over yet, but I keep it on hand in case I need to help out someone using Ubuntu. And yes, there have been courses offered for other distros in the past and probably will be in the future. |
| jdixon Apr 24, 2008 5:55 AM EDT |
> Well for one thing everyone complains that Ubuntu is getting all the attention. The key word you're leaving out is "undeserved". But in any case, that's a gross exaggeration of what people are saying, which is merely that Ubuntu isn't the be all and end all of Linux. > So, just what do you think the fickle media is going to target? You seem to think I care. > I want a system that I can install on the majority of systems with the least problem From my experience that's Ubuntu. No. You want a system which will configure itself on the majority of systems. Debian and Slackware will install on systems Ubuntu can't dream of working on. It's their configuration you have problems with. > I wasn't aiming my initial post at one particular person. Correct. Instead you aimed it at everyone, then wonder why anyone objects. |
| jdixon Apr 24, 2008 5:58 AM EDT |
Oh, tracyanne. I apologize. I thought I had included the Mandriva wiki link in my post, but I see I managed to drop it during my copy and past session. I didn't intend to slight Mandriva. |
| Laika Apr 24, 2008 7:34 AM EDT |
Hardy Heron could quite possibly mark the peak point that Ubuntu's popularity will reach in this decade. If KDE4 starts maturing with the 4.1 release (scheduled for July 2008), then it might attract some portion of the current Ubuntu users to try other distros (Kubuntu, OpenSUSE, ...) that can offer a live-cd with the KDE4 desktop and allow to install it without downloading hundreds of megs worth of extra packages. Of course, even if my prophecy becomes true, Ubuntu would still continue to be one of the most popular distros because it offers a nicely polished GNOME desktop. But I'd expect the GNOME-centric distros to start losing some of their momentum while the KDE-centric distros start gaining it -- at least for a while. This kind of long-term fluctuations in popularity wouldn't be unheard-of in the GNU/Linux world. Mandriva (Mandrake), for example, used to be the most popular distro for a very long time and now, after slowly losing popularity for some years, they have started gathering momentum again. |
| number6x Apr 24, 2008 8:27 AM EDT |
I've been using Ubuntu regularly since I got a new laptop with it pre-installed in February. I spent the first week tweaking and changing to get rid of most of the things that bug me about Ubuntu. Installed XFCE and removed most of the gnome stuff. Tweaked the Sudo list so the regular user isn't so all powerful with just their own id. removed a bunch of the default apps and replaced them with my choices. After that I have to say that Ubuntu is a decent distro. Of course there are hundreds of other distros that are just as decent. Some even have nice communities. I gave up on Ubuntu in the past because of the trouble it always had configuring my desktop video settings. No other distro had trouble, and it just wasn't worth the hand editing xorg. Debian was easier to install and offered more software, so I never gave Ubuntu a chance. I have to say that its not half bad, but it doesn't have anything that makes it stand out from the rest of the Linux crowd either. Its a nice 'average' distro. I'd recommend that new users try the live cd and see if it works well with their hardware, but I'd have them try 5 or 6 other live distros too. |
| rijelkentaurus Apr 24, 2008 8:47 AM EDT |
Quoting: Does Mandrivia have something equivalent? Quoting: Yes. They have full LSI certification available. They also have Mandriva-specific training available, which is pretty cool...get the generic Linux stuff with the LPI, get the Mandriva specific if you want to use our stuff. That should appeal even to those people who are not Mandriva users...I intend to purchase them soon, it's $50 for a year of access. |
| jdixon Apr 24, 2008 8:51 AM EDT |
> I have to say that its not half bad, but it doesn't have anything that makes it stand out from the rest of the Linux crowd either. OK, allow me to switch horses here for a moment. Pat and cabreh actually have a point, though it's not the one they're trying to make. To be completely fair to Ubuntu, I'd say the fact that their community is newbie friendly is a factor in it's favor. Neither the Debian nor Slackware communities (to name to mainstream options) have that newbie focus and friendliness (especially not Slackware, some members of the Slackware community can be downright rude to newbies). If you already have Linux experience, then I agree that it has little to no advantage over half a dozen to a dozen other distros. |
| cabreh Apr 24, 2008 10:22 AM EDT |
@jdixon
Of course it's the configuration (the need of it) on Slackware and Debian I don't want to deal with. Why would I want to waste my time doing all sorts of setting changes I don't need to do? And how can I promote a switchover from Windows to Linux at the organization I work for if I have to go to the, mostly Windows, admins and say all you have to do is tweak each system for about a week and then it's all fine. I'd be laughed at so loudly I'd go deaf. I'm past the half century mark and don't want to waste a lot of time trying to make things work that don't. Like Mandirva, PCLinuxOS and Sabayon to mention a few. If they worked for you easily that's great. I'm glad to hear that YOU know exactly what I mean when I say something different than you interpret. And I don't see how you think a Debian based distribution isn't capable of running on any hardware that Debian can run on. I'd love to hear that one explained. Whether I am using an ATI, Intel or Nvidia graphics chipset I have been able to run compiz (if I want to - which I don't) without any real problems. And that using a 1680x1050 display on one system and 1440x900 display on another. I guess you must have had some real strange hardware when you couldn't get it to work. Any distribution that works for you is what you should use. I've said that in most of my posts. Too bad you obviously can't agree. You say you don't care about the media reports. Then go on to complain that Ubuntu is getting coverage it doesn't deserve. To me that's a contradiction. Maybe you somehow don't think so. |
| rijelkentaurus Apr 24, 2008 10:49 AM EDT |
Quoting: And I don't see how you think a Debian based distribution isn't capable of running on any hardware that Debian can run on. He means: * Alpha * AMD64 * ARM * HP PA-RISC * Intel x86 * Intel IA-64 * MIPS (big endian) * MIPS (little endian) * PowerPC * IBM S/390 * SPARC Debian runs on all of these. Does Ubuntu? (From what I can tell, the download CDs are pretty much just for PCs, 32 and 64 bit.) |
| jdixon Apr 24, 2008 11:47 AM EDT |
> Then go on to complain that Ubuntu is getting coverage it doesn't deserve. I've never complained that Ubuntu is getting coverage it doesn't deserve. Allow me quote the relevant comments: > > Well for one thing everyone complains that Ubuntu is getting all the attention. > The key word you're leaving out is "undeserved". The people who are complaining about the attention Ubuntu is getting (which no one here is, though you won't believe that) believe it is undeserved. The complaints here have taken two forms. One, that Ubuntu users act like Ubuntu is significantly better than any other distribution out there (which it isn't), and two, that Ubuntu users think anyone who doesn't praise Ubuntu to the skies hates Ubuntu. > I'm glad to hear that YOU know exactly what I mean when I say something different than you interpret. WRT to the comment apparently prompting that statement: I know exactly what your words mean, yes. If they're not what you're trying to say that's your problem, not mine. > And I don't see how you think a Debian based distribution isn't capable of running on any hardware that Debian can run on... I guess you must have had some real strange hardware when you couldn't get it to work. Someone else has already pointed out that Debian supports more hardware platforms than Ubuntu. However, even limiting the discussion to x86 hardware doesn't favor Ubuntu. Take the recent discussion about an AMD K6 system with 64 MB of memory. The default Ubuntu CD will not install on that system (I tried Ubuntu on a 128 MB system recently, and it wouldn't work). To get Ubuntu to run on that system, I'd probably have to use a special install disk and manually remove a bunch of the packages which Ubuntu would try to install (such as, say, Gnome, which sort of defeats the point of using Ubuntu). Slackware will install and run on that system with the default installer. I haven't used the latest Debian installer, so there's a chance it won't, but the earlier ones would. > Any distribution that works for you is what you should use. And I do. You are welcome to do the same. But, to use your own words: "...stop telling me and the many others who like the ease of use of ...insert distro of choice here... that we are somehow wrong." You think Ubuntu is the greatest thing since sliced bread. OK, we've got that. We don't. That doesn't mean we're attacking Ubuntu. It doesn't mean we hate Ubuntu. It just means that, for whatever reasons we may choose, we like something else better. |
| tracyanne Apr 24, 2008 12:06 PM EDT |
Quoting:When did you contact them and ask? If you (or someone associated the the project) hasn't asked them and then complains they didn't help is like the person who asks a fellow "So, when did you stop beating your wife?". I got on the Ubuntu forums a few weeks ago, and asked, My post was deleted by the administrators. I also believe Helios has approached Cannonical. So the question is what will you as an obvious Ubuntu supporter do to get Ubuntu volunteers to help at LINdepenence Day? Will you post a request on the Ubuntu forums, Will you ask Cannonical? Perhaps you pat have more sway with the community, perhaps you will do these things. Or is your prefered method of interaction with the rest of the Linux community to whine when someone says something about Ubuntu that you don't like? |
| Steven_Rosenber Apr 24, 2008 12:28 PM EDT |
Debian will install on many, many more x86 boxes than will Ubuntu or Xubuntu. I know because I've tried it. Say what you will about Debian, but it has a very forgiving installer. |
| tracyanne Apr 24, 2008 4:51 PM EDT |
Quoting:Oh, tracyanne. I apologize... jd, no worries, I'm sure Mandriva is big enough to deal with it, and I wasn't bothered by it, there's probably a lot of other Linux distros you left out too. |
| pat Apr 24, 2008 6:33 PM EDT |
@tracyanne, Perhaps the fact that searching for lindependence day in google produces zero results speaks for itself. Anyhow, these vast projects intending to spread Linux all at once are like bubbles that quickly burst and disappear. This is why I spend a lot of my time free time working at the local FreeGeek. I'm on he board of directors, run the Saturday shift (yes I give up my free time to do this) and am working hard (as our all our volunteers) to get our operation to be a good force in the community and to spread Linux. I really believe that acting locally is where it is at. Any questions? BTW, anybody in the Central Ohio area who would like to volunteer we would love to have you. |
| rijelkentaurus Apr 24, 2008 6:38 PM EDT |
Quoting: @tracyanne, Perhaps the fact that searching for lindependence day in google produces zero results speaks for itself. Dunno what you're doing wrong, it gives me a bunch of results...and how in the heck would that, even if true (and you are mistaken), justify TA's question being deleted by the admins?? I've also sent an email to the FSF (I am a member but for the life of me can't remember my logon information or even the email I used to join!!)...probably won't help, surely can't hurt. |
| pat Apr 24, 2008 6:48 PM EDT |
I see the problem, Tracyanne must have spelled it Aussie style....LINdepenence Day ... should be LINdependence day. That is what I get for cutting and pasting. Guess I will pay some penance for that... |
| rijelkentaurus Apr 24, 2008 7:05 PM EDT |
We won't give you too much grief...just a little!! :) |
| tracyanne Apr 24, 2008 7:24 PM EDT |
Quoting:.LINdepenence Day No that not Aussie style, that's Tracyanne style. It's because of a minor affliction I have, it's called "derfingerpokenproblem" |
| cabreh Apr 24, 2008 10:51 PM EDT |
So, Debian runs on MIPS, Alpha, PowerPC, PA-RISC and IBM-390. Does that mean I'm to assume that jdixon doesn't have the smarts to realize he's trying to install an X86 OS on a non-X86 system? I don't for a minute think that. Therefore that is obviously irrelevant. In the context we were talking about installing to x86 system. So, you couldn't install to a K6 64 MB system with the normal install CD. Did you bother to read any of the easily available documentation that clearly states you need 256 MB RAM to use the full desktop install? And that if you don't have that amount of RAM you can download and install the Alternate CD? That's what I did on a Dell Inspiron 7500 with a 433 Mhz Celeron and 128 MB RAM along with a 10 GB hard drive. Worked for me. And since I am being put into a box label Ubuntu user who thinks non-Ubuntu users hate Ubuntu you obviously DO NOT read what I post fully unless you have some very distorted glasses on. Shall I say it again? I think I started this in my first post. Yes here it is: "And the answer is that they don't work any better. They are all about the same. It's personal choice and how a distro "feels" TO YOU PERSONALLY that makes you stick with it." And: "You like KDE better? Fine. You like Mandriva better? Fine. But stop telling me and the many others who like the ease of use of Ubuntu that we are somehow wrong." Please note that in my very first post I agreed that what you choose is a valid choice FOR YOU. What I choose is just as valid. Therefore I take a dim view of those who are so insecure in their choice of OS that they feel they need to do things like post to an article about someone using Ubuntu and tell they they should have used Mandriva instead (or whatever distro). Why post that? Maybe they did and it was a failure. Who knows. But if the person has succeeded in their Ubuntu install why tell them they made the wrong choice? I'm not saying any of you have posted in that way. But it happens all the time. And I still haven't seen a link to the many articles that are painting a picture of Ubuntu as the perfect Linux distro. Though I see complaints that there are such. In any case I am obviously wasting my time on this. Many of you will continue to complain about valid Ubuntu articles simply because they are about Ubuntu rather than your favorite distro. So be it I guess. I don't want to stop free speech. And I reserve the right to talk about my successful Ubuntu installs. And in case you wonder what I have installed it on without issue here is the list: Dell PowerEdge 600SC server PowerEdge 2500 server PowerEdge 2950 server Optiplex SX270 desktop Inspiron 8500 laptop Inspiron 8600 laptop Inspiron 7500 laptop HP 7800 SFF desktop 6820s laptop 5100 desktop Home made ASUS M2N32-SLI deluxe mb w/AMD X2 6000+ ASUS M2n-VM DVI mb with AMD X2 Be-2300 ASUS P4C800 Intel P4 2.8 ASRock P4i65GV Intel P4 2.8 ASUS A7V133 AMD 2200+ And others I can't recall. Without any major issues. This is why I am staying with Ubuntu. Maybe your hardware doesn't work with it. But all the above does. |
| jdixon Apr 25, 2008 3:32 AM EDT |
> Does that mean I'm to assume that jdixon doesn't have the smarts to realize he's trying to install an X86 OS on a non-X86 system? No, but it means while you're fond of telling other people to read and do such and such, you seem to be incapable of doing so yourself. > Did you bother to read any of the easily available documentation that clearly states you need 256 MB RAM to use the full desktop install? Why would I bother doing that when I'm not the one with the system you're asking about? I described the system I tried later. I tried several CD's I had lying around. No, I didn't check the docs first, it was faster just to boot the CD's and see what happened. > And that if you don't have that amount of RAM you can download and install the Alternate CD? I don't have to download any special separate disk for Slackware (or probably for Debian). But, but, but... I thought Ubuntu was supposed to be BETTER.... > What I choose is just as valid. Yes, for you. > I'm not saying any of you have posted in that way. Then why are you complaining like we have? > But it happens all the time. I'm sure it does. Similar things happen to anyone who posts on the Internet, on any subject. > In any case I am obviously wasting my time on this. Yep. You're trying to convince a group of experienced Linux users that Ubuntu is the best distro. Most of us have tried Ubuntu. For some users and some systems, it undoubtedly is the best distro. For some users and some systems, it's not. It is one of the distros I keep around for installs, and I recently used it to recover a system with a dead (and unlicensed) Windows XP install for a coworker. She seems to be happy with it. > But all the above does. Yawn. I could provide an even longer list of systems Slackware works on. But what would be the point? That doesn't make Slackware a better distro than Ubuntu. More versatile, maybe, but not better. The things that make Slackware the right system for me are speed, stabilty, simplicity, and personal control of the system. I don't expect everyone else out there to agree with me, and for them, Slackware won't be the right system. I've already detailed the two complaints you'll find if you read the comments here. They're not complaints about Ubuntu; they're complaints about Ubuntu users and promoters. You've done nothing to refute either of them, and your best to reaffirm them. |
| cabreh Apr 25, 2008 4:06 AM EDT |
@jdixon
You obviously have an learning disability. Please quote where I once said that Ubuntu was the best distro. I have gone out of my way to very clearly state that it is MY favorite distro BUT that YOU should obviously choose what works best for YOU. Please quote ANYTHING IN CONTEXT that says otherwise from my posts. You sir selectively cut a posting to twist it to your WRONG view as in : > I'm not saying any of you have posted in that way. Then why are you complaining like we have? When what I said was: "Therefore I take a dim view of those who are so insecure in their choice of OS that they feel they need to do things like post to an article about someone using Ubuntu and tell they they should have used Mandriva instead (or whatever distro). Why post that? Maybe they did and it was a failure. Who knows. But if the person has succeeded in their Ubuntu install why tell them they made the wrong choice? I'm not saying any of you have posted in that way." I am NOT posting here because someone in this discussion did that. I am posting here because you and others seem to think that if someone takes exception to those who do post that way they are somehow wrong. And you seem to think it's wrong that the most widely used Linux Distro (on the desktop that is) shouldn't be getting the press it does. Your above selective cutting and response comes back to the "When did you stop beating your wife?" device. You get it right in your statement: "Most of us have tried Ubuntu. For some users and some systems, it undoubtedly is the best distro. For some users and some systems, it's not. It is one of the distros I keep around for installs, and I recently used it to recover a system with a dead (and unlicensed) Windows XP install for a coworker. She seems to be happy with it." That is what I have been saying. But for some reason you keep disagreeing with me and saying I'm trying to tell YOU to use Ubuntu. I am not. I am trying to say is that we need to stop complaining just because someone doesn't use the same distribution as you. Sure, I can see you getting slightly annoyed at all the Ubuntu articles. But most of the ones I see in the news listing actually mention Ubuntu somewhere in the blurb. Just don't go to them. I don't waste my time reading about some of the distributions I've decided I don't want to use. Slackware happens to be one of them, but's that's for me. But that doesn't mean I'm going to go and complain because someone else wants to use it and share their experience about it. I don't go there and say I'm tired of all the hype Slackware gets about being so much faster that the other distributions. If I read the artcile and it doesn't give me anything I need I just leave the site. Maybe being more tolerant of those who want to use Ubuntu could be a good thing. I think if you go over my posts I have not said anything about any distribution being a bad choice. Except as related to MY choice. If you were to do likewise along with all the others complaining about Ubuntu users and the articles we could all have a little less friction amongst ourselves and a whole lot less Internet traffic. |
| jdixon Apr 25, 2008 8:04 AM EDT |
> You obviously have an learning disability. That your second personal insult in two posts. I'm beginning to think you may not like me. > Please quote where I once said that Ubuntu was the best distro. Then what exactly are you arguing? That Ubuntu is a fairly good distribution which people should consider using? Guess what, we already know that. Most of us even agree. But perhaps this is actually your point: > I am posting here because you and others seem to think that if someone takes exception to those who do post that way they are somehow wrong. You're correct. I (and I suspect most of the others here, but I don't want to speak for them) think you're wrong. If someone doesn't like Ubuntu, for any reason they choose, and prefers another distribution, they have the right to say so. They have a right to argue for the distribution of their choice in it's place. They even have the right to call people who choose Ubuntu idiots if they want. It's called free speech. You may have heard of it. Of course, no one here seems to have done that. So what exactly is your point again? > And you seem to think it's wrong that the most widely used Linux Distro (on the desktop that is) shouldn't be getting the press it does. And you seem to have missed my point that I don't care about the press Ubuntu gets. > But for some reason you keep disagreeing with me and saying I'm trying to tell YOU to use Ubuntu. I am not. OK. I'll take your word for that. > I am trying to say is that we need to stop complaining just because someone doesn't use the same distribution as you. No one here is. I've already pointed out the two main points being made here. > Sure, I can see you getting slightly annoyed at all the Ubuntu articles. I don't normally. But I do then to get annoyed when someone comes into a forum I like, starts by addressing his comment "People, people, people" (thus including everyone in the thread to that point), and complains that we're making arguments we aren't. > Just don't go to them. And what if I choose to do so, and don't agree with the views being posted? Am I supposed to censor myself because I disagree with some article of the Ubuntu religion? > I don't go there and say I'm tired of all the hype Slackware gets about being so much faster that the other distributions. Why not? Everyone could use a good laugh now and then. > Maybe being more tolerant of those who want to use Ubuntu could be a good thing. Possibly, but it might be a even better thing if Ubuntu users were more tolerant of those who don't agree with them. Show me a single post in this thread where someone has said you're wrong to be using Ubuntu. I don't care what you use. I doubt anyone else here does. Prior to your "People, people, people" post, I disagreed with one specific point in the article which started this discussion, which was: > ...but overall the support for Ubuntu is heads and shoulders above the rest. Which is, in my opinion, simply not true. I posted this disagreement twice. I also agreed with a comment about the reaction of a subset of the Ubuntu community to any disagreement and agreed with a comment concerning whether it was possible to make money in the desktop market. Yet you seem to be accusing me and everyone else here of being intolerant toward Ubuntu users. Hint #1, this isn't an Ubuntu forum. We didn't go onto your turf taking cheap shots at you. We posted legitimate points of disagreement in a public forum created for that purpose. I think you need to get a better grasp of reality and learn what tolerance actually means. Hint #2: It's doesn't mean accusing someone of being an idiot in two consecutive posts. |
| number6x Apr 25, 2008 8:14 AM EDT |
Back in the late 1990's I remember having a conversation with someone about Linux. He kept correcting me and saying 'You mean Red Hat' when I would say 'Linux'. I finally had to ask why he kept correcting me. He literally thought that all Linux came from Red Hat. I gave him a copy of debian. |
| tuxchick Apr 25, 2008 8:19 AM EDT |
haha, number6x, I was working at Tektronix when Red Hat did their IPO. One of the engineers I worked with was all excited because he bought "stock in Linux." I asked "Which Linux?" and he got the same look on his face my cat gets when I say "don't do that." In other words, completely blank like I do not exist. Peoples are so funny. |
| Steven_Rosenber Apr 25, 2008 9:19 AM EDT |
Hey, we're rolling out a huge Red Hat cluster this Monday ... pray for me. My sysadmin on this one seems like a good guy (I just have to use the damn thing myself and take care of my users and their issues), so I'm cautiously optimistic. |
| cabreh Apr 25, 2008 9:26 AM EDT |
@jdixon
OK let me get back to my original problem. I have only been addressing you because you took it upon yourself to address my post. My comments weren't really about you. At least not really at the start. First point - someone (not me btw) posts an article where he states that when people write Ubuntu articles there seems to quite often be people who post messages along the lines of "why are you using Ubuntu? You should be using -whatever-". rijelkentaurus says to that: "And again it seems that "Ubuntu hating" means not being an Ubuntu lover...if I say "I prefer Debian" they say "Why do you hate us???". Pffttt!!!" No that wasn't what the article writer said. Azerthoth says: "I knock Ubuntu because of the false hype of it being the easiest, newest, shiniest. It's none of these things, I can come up with several that are easier to use, at it's newest on the day of release its packages are ~4 months out of date" jdixon himself says: "> And again it seems that "Ubuntu hating" means not being an Ubuntu lover... That's the impression I've been getting. Especially from the article in question." And yet I didn't see that the article says you hate Ubuntu if you don't like it. It says SOME people are trying their darnedest to to discourage people when they write an article about how they used Ubuntu. Some of these writers are new to Linux. They are probably so proud they actually got their system up and running on Linux. They may have written the same article if it had been Mandriva someone talked them into trying. Then along come the meanies who aren't happy because it's not about their favorite version and try to spoil everything. We're not talking about constructive criticism here. Just people being rather nasty. Post a nice entry like "Yes, I accomplished my first install using Slackware and been happy ever since with it." No problem. And I'm sure you probably would post that way. At least mostly :) Yes I agree you have a right to free speech. So to does the person using Ubuntu. You said you used Slackware. I didn't accuse you of trying to get me to use it because of that statement. Likewise, not many Ubuntu users are stupid enough to make statements like that either. I sure didn't. My one and only point in all this was some of you appeared to be doing just what the article writer was complaining about. My agreement that we are all entitled to our own choice and freedom of said choice and also speech is fully in line with yours. Unless you start shouting Fire in a crowded building when no fire exists. I was seeing some of that in the above quotes. If I read those post wrongly, then I apologize. But they do seem to be attaching where no attach was needed. |
| jdixon Apr 25, 2008 10:44 AM EDT |
> No that wasn't what the article writer said. OK, that's a legitimate point of disagreement with rijelkentaurus. However, I give you fair warning that his probable response will be, first, "What part of "Ubuntu hating" did you have problems understanding?; and second that the word seems means that this is a subjective impression. > Then along come the meanies who aren't happy because it's not about their favorite version and try to spoil everything. This is the big bad Internet. This happens. Complaining about that is like complaining that the sky is blue. And in general the folks here aren't the ones who do it. They're a comparatively polite bunch. Both Dino and I have been know to get rather sarcastic at times (I doubt you would believe how much I've had to tone down my responses on this thread), but that's about it. The general consensus here seems to be that Ubuntu is a fairly nice Debian derivative, on par with Mepis, PCLinuxOS, Mandriva, SuSE, and Fedora (as examples) as far as Linux distributions go; but that it does have it's problems, and that some of those problems make one or more of the other distributions more suitable for specific situations. The specific complaints in this thread are that Ubuntu is overhyped, that some of it's users consider it to be better than any other distribution, and that any criticism of Ubuntu (justified or not) gets you labelled as an Ubuntu hater. You've done absolutely nothing to contradict any of those. > My one and only point in all this was some of you appeared to be doing just what the article writer was complaining about. And my current point is that this isn't true, and that you're over reacting and reinforcing the above mentioned stereotype that criticizing Ubuntu for any reason gets you labelled as an Ubuntu hater. > I was seeing some of that in the above quotes. See my above comment about over reacting. Nothing here remotely resembles shouting Fire in a crowded theatre. > If I read those post wrongly, then I apologize. In my opinion, you're reading the posts wrongly. Others will have to speak for themselves, but as far as I can see some of what you read here could be considered unjustified grousing, but that's about the extent of it. |
| rijelkentaurus Apr 25, 2008 10:47 AM EDT |
Quoting: rijelkentaurus says to that: Dude, the title of the original article is "Ubuntu hating and Microsoft bashing? The future of GNU/Linux". The author says: Quoting: It seems that the Linux community has now included Ubuntu bashing as a extension of the Microsoft bashing fringe He also uses phrases such as "commonly people" and "these same people"...and of course in the quote above he extends this to "the Linux community". These are "weasel words", purposely generalized terms used to give the impression that the author is actually making a direct point. He does nothing of the kind. This article could have easily been written by an actual Canonical employee looking to obfuscate Ubuntu's shortcomings in a fog of "quit picking on us, we're the golden children!". By phrasing things the way they are phrased, the author is actually trying to remove Ubuntu from the general Linux world..."we're not Linux, we're Ubuntu!" sort of thing. Remember, the attacks are coming from "the Linux community", whereas the Ubuntu community has the higher purpose of liberating Windows users and bringing peace, light and happiness to the world, and is apparently free of all negative emotion. I will not grant Ubuntu a free ticket, if they are wanting to become ubiquitous then they must learn to take the "shots" from me and from others, even when most of these shots are really just personal impressions and legitimate criticisms. Not praising Ubuntu is not the same as hating it...and what's wrong with hating anyway, if that's the truth? Sometimes "free speech" means relating your positive experiences and leaving people feeling warm and fuzzy, but sometimes it means taking a more negative approach and letting people know why you feel something is bad, Bad, evil or Evil. Those who feel strongly against Ubuntu (or Debian, or Red Hat, or SUSE, or...or...or...) should stand up and say so. We are a strong community, we can take it. Because we are Linux. We are not Ubuntu...or...or...or.... |
| rijelkentaurus Apr 25, 2008 10:50 AM EDT |
Quoting: OK, that's a legitimate point of disagreement with rijelkentaurus. However, I give you fair warning LOL, people are being warned about me. {warm, fuzzy feeling} Glad to see, also, jdixon, that I wasn't the only one writing a lengthy post. :) And no ill will intended on my part, nor do I think it is intended on anyone else's. |
| jdixon Apr 25, 2008 10:56 AM EDT |
> LOL, people are being warned about me. Not so much warning him about you as that his argument seemed to have some obvious holes. |
| tuxchick Apr 25, 2008 11:13 AM EDT |
I have a t-shirt that says "Beware the Rampant rijelkentaurus". It's funnier than hell watching people trying to sound it out. |
| rijelkentaurus Apr 25, 2008 11:17 AM EDT |
I need one of those t-shirts... |
| tuxchick Apr 25, 2008 11:40 AM EDT |
heh, I don't really have one, but I'm looking at my big felt pen and thinking of making it for real. |
| herzeleid Apr 25, 2008 1:43 PM EDT |
Dunno if my $.02 counts for anything, coming from a long time linux user who started with SLS in 1993, but I for one am impressed by ubuntu hardy heron. I think it may be the distro that finally has the juice to entice me away from suse... well, at least on the desktop at any rate. |
| number6x Apr 25, 2008 1:47 PM EDT |
Suse 10.1 got me to move to debian as my main distro. But 10.3 is better. I couldn't understand what they were trying to do with the software update system. It worked pretty well and they went and broke it. |
| herzeleid Apr 25, 2008 2:17 PM EDT |
> I couldn't understand what they were trying to do with the software update system. It worked pretty well and they went and broke it. yeah that was painful - I ended up using smart, or apt-get. Now zypper/yast is quite usable. Still, ubuntu takes it to a whole new level of ease. |
| tracyanne Apr 25, 2008 2:39 PM EDT |
Quoting:Then along come the meanies who aren't happy because it's not about their favorite version and try to spoil everything. Maybe he's refering to me here. I have a habit, especially when I get the ZDNet feeds, of going to the Hyped Ubuntu link and pointing out that I can do all of that with Mandriva, that there is nothing special about Ubuntu, and that other ditros are as easy and sometimes easier to use. If that makes me a meany, then I stand proud. |
| tracyanne Apr 25, 2008 3:15 PM EDT |
A point of history, and disclosure. I was a Mandriva user before and during their period of Bankruptcy protection. I along with many other Mandriva users, joined the Mandriva Users Club, for the sole purpose of helping to keep Mandriva afloat financially. It was that money that in part ensured the survival of Mandriva, and enable the company to reach the state where they could produce the fine distribution that is 2008.1 Spring. So in many ways I, as do probably many other Mandriva users, have feeling of ownership where Mandriva is concerned. |
| tuxchick Apr 25, 2008 4:11 PM EDT |
The Mandriva Meanies Club! |
| tracyanne Apr 25, 2008 5:10 PM EDT |
@TC Huh? |
| gus3 Apr 25, 2008 10:09 PM EDT |
@tc: Heheh. I get it. That would make for some truly funky artwork on a T-shirt! |
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