Good luck...
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| nikkels Apr 15, 2008 4:00 AM EDT |
but don't have your hopes up to high |
| dinotrac Apr 15, 2008 4:28 AM EDT |
I hope they fail miserably -- kind of. I have an XP (formerly Vista) notebook myself out of business necessity. I don't even care if defectors go over to Mac instead of to Windows. We mostly need people to really understand that Windows is not essential to their computing. If they try the Mac, they'll discover just how bad Windows really is. |
| nikkels Apr 15, 2008 5:04 AM EDT |
So, free will and choice is all of a sudden dead. I expected different from you. :-) If they have a legal copy of windows, they got every right to fight for what they think is theirs Linux is not essential to their computing either. |
| Bob_Robertson Apr 15, 2008 5:40 AM EDT |
Nik, Windows XP does not "expire" in June. Microsoft will simply stop supporting it. Considering what Microsoft calls "support", really, what difference will that make? None. If MS wants to drop support for XP, I'm all in favor. It's _their_ software, they may do what they wish with it. Companies and individuals looking for software which continues to be supported beyond Microsoft's (or Apples) whims can always choose F/OSS where support is available in perpetuity. |
| dinotrac Apr 15, 2008 6:18 AM EDT |
nikkels - What the **** are you talking about? I think you've added 1+1 and gotten gravy. Soon, unless Microsoft changes its mind, it will not be possible to buy XP PCs. Ordinary folk looking for new hardware will have to choose between buying Vista and something else. That, btw, is known as 2. |
| jdixon Apr 15, 2008 7:28 AM EDT |
If someone (say Dell, or a consortium of Dell/HP/Acer/Lenovo) wanted to buy the rights to sell and support XP, (similar to SCO's deal with Novell) does anyone here actually think Microsoft would sell it to them? > Considering what Microsoft calls "support", really, what difference will that make? All the difference in the world. Once those activation servers are shut down, XP is history. You can still run your legal copies of Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME, and Windows 2000 till doomsday without problems. But you have to activate XP. Yes, there will be hacks, but then they're not legally licensed copies anymore. |
| Bob_Robertson Apr 15, 2008 8:12 AM EDT |
> Once those activation servers are shut down, XP is history. Interesting. My wife uses XP. With all the reinstallation I've had to do, I've never had to "activate". Maybe the fact that it's pre-SP1 and I also never let it run Windows Update has something to do with it. Still, here it is. You are demonstrably wrong in your absolute statement. |
| dinotrac Apr 15, 2008 8:19 AM EDT |
Bob - Corporate versions of XP do not require activation. Other versions require activation at initial install, or after significant changes to the system. It is possible to go a very long time without being clobbered by activation. |
| rijelkentaurus Apr 15, 2008 8:31 AM EDT |
Dell will continue to sell XP through 2011 preloaded, per a letter from one of our Dell contacts, an Account Manager at a large client of ours.Quoting: Recently I have been receiving a lot of emails regarding Windows XP end of life. Please be aware that Dell will continue to offer XP Pro preloaded through 2011. We will ship XP Professional on Dell Optiplex, Latitude and Precision machines with a free upgrade path to Windows Vista when you select "Windows Vista Business Bonus" in the configurator online. Regarding Microsoft office 2003, this will continue to be available as a downgrade from 2007 through the open license program. |
| jdixon Apr 15, 2008 8:31 AM EDT |
> Maybe the fact that it's pre-SP1 and I also never let it run Windows Update has something to do with it. No. All but enterprise versions of XP are supposed to require activation. All the machines you get with XP preloaded are also pre-activated. I have no idea why yours isn't requiring you to reactivate on when you reinstall, but it's happened with every version of XP I've worked on except our corporate version. |
| Bob_Robertson Apr 15, 2008 8:38 AM EDT |
> No. Very well. How do you think Dell is doing this "through 2011" thing then? It seems a contradiction. Maybe Dell is running their own activation server? |
| jdixon Apr 15, 2008 8:44 AM EDT |
> How do you think Dell is doing this "through 2011" thing then? From the article: "The company will continue providing a more limited level of service until April 2014." That's when the servers will probably be shut down. |
| Bob_Robertson Apr 15, 2008 8:49 AM EDT |
> "The company will continue providing a more limited level of service until April 2014." All this does highlight one of the salient aspects of F/OSS: No one can take it away from you. |
| softwarejanitor Apr 15, 2008 8:57 AM EDT |
> All this does highlight one of the salient aspects of F/OSS: No one can take it away from you. The one thing that can cause forced upgrades of OSes like Linux is hardware obsolescence... I know a few people who have been forced to upgrade to newer distros because their old hardware failed and the newer hardware they got to replace it wouldn't work with the old versions. I suppose the truly cheap could probably find old enough hardware used... However, that all is a lot less than being trapped by a software vendor that can at some point refuse to allow you to "activate" the software again. |
| techiem2 Apr 15, 2008 10:31 AM EDT |
Ah, forced upgrades and lockin.... We have a similar situation at our church school that I'm trying to currently work around until I can find a replacement. The school office has a VERY old school management program that they use for attendance (ONLY attendance, heh). The secretary had it running on a win95 box (yes, you can laugh). They bought her a shiny new vista box. Guess what? The program won't run. I think I tried win2k too, no luck. Apparently changes to the jet engine break it. So I had to turn her win95 install into a virtualbox vm for her... Right now I'm trying to figure out how to let her print from it (I think setting up cups-pdf on the router and having her print to that then print the pdf will work...). We asked the company about upgrading and got the typical Proprietary Lockin Money Train answer - if you want the new version, you have to pay for EVERY upgrade there has been between our version and the new one. Yeah, I REALLY want to find a good foss replacement for them...either desktop use (windows or I could do linux in a vm) or web based (hopefully I'll be replacing the old k6-350 router/server with the dell server sitting in the room when someone gets it to my house so I can actually set it up....). The more I have to work with proprietary software, the less I like it. The more I work with foss software, the more I like it. Isn't it funny how freedom does that to you? Back on the main topic, hasn't MS basically done the same forced-upgrade thing for pretty much every version of windows? I know there has always been resistance, but it seems that this is the worst it's been so far (at least according to my memory). Maybe they should take a hint from their customers? |
| softwarejanitor Apr 15, 2008 10:51 AM EDT |
techiem2 -- the "force" part of MS's forced upgrades gets worse every version, and that is by design. It isn't just to combat "piracy", its to keep people buying upgrades and/or new computers so that MS's OS monopoly (and MS-Office monopoly) gravy trains continue. |
| Bob_Robertson Apr 15, 2008 11:00 AM EDT |
Yep. MS sees that Win95 system not as a success, but as 5 lost sales. |
| softwarejanitor Apr 15, 2008 12:18 PM EDT |
Exactly Bob... many people say that Microsoft's biggest competition is themselves... if people are complacent about their products and don't "upgrade" at every cycle then Microsoft feels like they are losing money. Used to be they could just get by with making things shoddy so people would feel compelled to upgrade to something that didn't stink quite so bad... now days they have at least a little more external competition (Linux, re-vitalized Apple), so they are using more force like Windows Genuine (dis)Advantage and other "anti-piracy" features to try to encourage upgrades. |
| danns Apr 15, 2008 12:51 PM EDT |
techiem2, can't you just buy the latest version from the vendor instead of upgrading? Or are they refusing to sell you the latest version? I cannot see how buying all the upgrades is going to do you much good as you cannot even install the old version on your current system, so how would you get the data over? Unless there is an import feature, so then again, why could you just not buy the latest and import that way. |
| Steven_Rosenber Apr 15, 2008 1:15 PM EDT |
I don't recall anybody complaining when Windows 98 stopped getting upgrades. I think Windows 2000 is going to get updates from MS until 2010. |
| techiem2 Apr 15, 2008 2:09 PM EDT |
danns: That's a good question, though I assume that simply buying the new version would probably cost same/similar to/ the upgrade cost...(They don't list prices on their site, which means it's probably ridiculous).
Besides, they only use it for attendance tracking anyway, so it wouldn't be cost effective to pay a bunch of money for a new version just so it will run natively on Vista...
hehe. I need to do some more looking around for a foss replacement... I do find it interesting that MS also restricts windows updates on XP to SP2 Users.... |
| theboomboomcars Apr 15, 2008 4:37 PM EDT |
techiem2- Have you tried running it in wine? wine tends to do pretty well running old windows programs. |
| techiem2 Apr 15, 2008 7:06 PM EDT |
I don't think I actually tried it because I didn't think the JET database would work. I'll have to try it though just to see... |
| nikkels Apr 15, 2008 8:18 PM EDT |
Dinotrack My apologies. yes, I was high :-) I have edited my post slightly |
| phsolide Apr 16, 2008 2:40 PM EDT |
Look for a huge, huge plague of viruses and/or worms for Windows XP as soon as it gets end-of-lifed. I heard mutterings from some folks who were completely satisfied with Windows 3.11 back in '96 to the effect that the new viruses were driving them to a resource-hungry pig of an operating system, Windows 95. The AV vendors quickly dropped Windows 3.11 support, about 15 minutes after Windows 95 came out, apparently, so the Windows 3.11 users were at the complete mercy of the virus writers. |
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