Is open source anti-American?
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| ColonelPanik Mar 26, 2008 12:30 PM EDT |
I hope so! |
| dumper4311 Mar 26, 2008 12:48 PM EDT |
> "I hope so!" Good, really grown up. Here's a comment posted to the original article that I'm re-publishing in full (hopefully no TOS violations - I'll apologize in advance if I've done a bad thing). It's well worth considering, and I tend to agree with Tocqueville's assessment as described therein. Given this perspective, Open Source Software methods are the embodiment of the best of American ideals. Sadly, ethically bankrupt self interest and the scarcity mentality are common worldwide, including in the U.S., so we have a lot of work to do. Note that I'm obviously not claiming such ideals are unique to America - we find the good and bad spread worldwide. But to claim that OSS is anti-American is every bit as useless and stupid as the "Microsoft sucks" argument. "*The* authority on "American"... Alexis de Tocqueville was perhaps *the* most insightful analyst of the American psyche. He noted a uniquely American penchant for forming voluntary community associations in order to deal with problems. He further stated that this tendency seems to be found nowhere else on Earth: not in Europe, not in the British Isles, not even in Canada; it was a truly American contribution to human society. And now the Internet has allowed this uniquely American contribution to spread world-wide, in the form of open source collaborations that have given us Apache, Linux, and a host of other software. It is indeed the Microsofts of the world who are unAmerican, who want to take us all back to a world of king-granted (IP) privilege. Posted by: cjcoats Posted on: 03/26/08" |
| ColonelPanik Mar 26, 2008 3:20 PM EDT |
>>>Good, really grown up. |
| dinotrac Mar 26, 2008 6:27 PM EDT |
C;mon, kids, let's behave ourselves!!!!! |
| dumper4311 Mar 26, 2008 6:32 PM EDT |
But HE started it!!! :) |
| moopst Mar 26, 2008 7:24 PM EDT |
@dumper: I think the trend might have been started by Ben Franklin. He also pushed for public libraries at a time when cities in the (then still) American colonies still had dirt streets. Talk about bringing down barriers to learning, or defying IP barons. Of course it helps when you're born dirt poor and grow up to defy kings. |
| ColonelPanik Mar 27, 2008 7:20 AM EDT |
wooo, the heavy hand of an editor was afoot. Its okay, I was OOL and OT. Sorry. |
| dumper4311 Mar 27, 2008 8:18 AM EDT |
@moopst: I found Tocqueville's sentiment interesting, and your comment about Franklin indicates (to me) some value in discovering the origins of such ennobling trends. There are certainly problems in any society or industry that should be put right. It seems to me the best method for doing so is enacting the change you seek, rather than focusing on how screwed up things may otherwise be. This is why the work of true and effective activists like helios are so vital to the success of OSS. Don't like the trend the computer industry has taken over the last 20+ years? That's one of the reasons I personally use Linux. But all the pomp and idealism in the world is worth far less to me than the simple, practical, and effective work of a true activist. Providing support for programs like Komputers4Kids yields immediate and measurable results, just like opening libraries in areas that can benefit from a little bit a book learnin'. We now return to our regularly scheduled program, without further commercial interruption. |
| dinotrac Mar 27, 2008 8:26 AM EDT |
>But all the pomp and idealism in the world is worth far less to me than the simple, practical, and effective work of a true activist Yup. Talk is cheap. Actions aren't. |
| tuxtom Mar 27, 2008 9:24 AM EDT |
Quoting:He noted a uniquely American penchant for forming voluntary community associations in order to deal with problems.Then Americans should eradicate computers altogether, as they are not necessary for human existence by any stretch of the imagination, create an environmental catastrophe on a scale unknown to any previous generation of human beings (one that is conveniently not seen in the Western World) and detract from more meaningful human interaction. Besides, THE most unique American penchant is distilling rye and bourbon whiskey, not writing open source software. |
| dumper4311 Mar 27, 2008 11:30 AM EDT |
@tuxtom: If you'll tell me where your commune is, I'll bring some whiskey. We can toast the eventual extinction of all these evil humans, their devilish western culture, and mourn the tragic extinction of fluby wibbled scrub moss by those danged power sucking machines. Or, maybe we could just try to make a positive change. :) |
| thenixedreport Mar 27, 2008 5:03 PM EDT |
*sigh* Enough to this "anti-American" rubbish! Let me take it further: Enough America bashing too! |
| tuxtom Mar 28, 2008 7:56 AM EDT |
@dumper: Sorry, I gave up the whiskey, but you'll have to pry my citizenship out of my cold, dead hands as they rest on my Linux keyboard. 8^) On a more serious note, I think the likes of Microsoft and the other corporate behemoths would make Washington and Franklin and their peers puke with contempt. Corporations are far from what those men fought for and established. This is not the same America...you could argue that it is, in fact, not even America any more. |
| dumper4311 Mar 28, 2008 8:47 AM EDT |
Actually, Franklin was a very successful businessman. It's a simple fact that you can do a great deal more good with lots of money and influence than you ever can without it. I see nothing wrong whatsoever with being wildly successful, and I'd suggest your view of the "American dream" may be skewed by your own scarcity mentality. That being said, I do wholeheartedly agree with you that morally bankrupt individuals or entities like Microsoft can do a great deal of damage. Fortunately, enterprise and integrity can still find a way around such things as bad laws, bad licenses, and bad companies. Open source and standards are the perfect example of this. It becomes a matter of helping make these concepts into practical solutions for those willing to stand up and take responsibility for the course of their own lives. For me personally, software is a tool - I will not permit it to be a method of control. In this way, it is very much the same America it was back then. Focus, attitude, and practical action all still matter - much more so than anything else. Again, this is why programs like Komputers4Kids are worth so much more than any idealistic blathering about how things should be. |
| thenixedreport Mar 28, 2008 8:22 PM EDT |
Quoting:Again, this is why programs like Komputers4Kids are worth so much more than any idealistic blathering about how things should be. Bullseye! :) |
| hkwint Mar 30, 2008 9:53 AM EDT |
Uhm, well, apart from the question if open source is American, I'm convinced (most of) the US is not anti-open source. US army uses it, DARPA spends money on it (I believe), several distro's are 'based' there, ibiblio provides hd-space for open source, some municipalities (wrong word, probably I mean counties) use it, and that's only what I can think of right now. The US army even released BRL*-CAD, a ballistic CAD research tool as open-source! Never been in America (but normally that's no reason for me not to talk nonsense about it ;) ), I suggest open source cannot be anti-American if so many Americans work with it and also its government make it. Maybe open source is a bit anti-{Microsoft, Autodesk, Adobe, Aplle}, but everybody (except from some poor souls in Frrance) knows Microsoft & McDonalds are not the same as the US (as in the way America is not the same as the US by the way). *If you are lucky and enjoy quick internet: Look, http://brlcad.org/w/images/9/9a/Principles_of_Effective_Mode... for example at page 30; this is what the DoD gives the world! |
| gus3 Mar 30, 2008 7:40 PM EDT |
Quoting:DARPA spends money on itThey also formed the very Internet, without which FOSS would be pretty much nowhere. |
| jacog Mar 31, 2008 2:46 AM EDT |
And what is this concept of "American" anyway? I mean, you could call all the stuff written in their constitution "American", buit fact is, is it a rather large country with many different types of people that have many different ideals and points of view. You have democrats, communists, libertarians, liberal liberals, neo nazis, weird cults in the pacific northwest that practice polygamy and "group loving". Do any of these describe open source? If "American" refers to the old "American work ethic" - you know, work yourself to death without expecting much in return... then perhaps open source is very American indeed. > They also formed the very Internet, without which FOSS would be pretty much nowhere. I thought Al Gore invented the internet. :) |
| dinotrac Mar 31, 2008 5:59 AM EDT |
>I thought Al Gore invented the internet. :) Although some folks who have lost jobs to NAFTA may think otherwise, Al Gore is an American. |
| jdixon Mar 31, 2008 8:00 AM EDT |
> ...with many different types of people that have many different ideals and points of view. ... Do any of these describe open source? I would say the variety of viewpoints and goals, combined with a willingness to allow non-violent coexistence, describes open source fairly well. |
| NoDough Mar 31, 2008 8:28 AM EDT |
Quoting:I thought Al Gore invented the internet. :)Nope. Just a couple of AlGoreithms. IMNSHO, "American" refers to the American dream. That is, any person can become whatever they want to be with enough hard work and perseverance. |
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