he's kidding, right?
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tuxchick Jan 11, 2008 7:01 AM EDT |
Quoting: Now, the final and most annoying problem: NeoOffice doesn’t have an email/calendaring system. That's the showstopper?? Is this for real? Calling all people who yelled at me for saying that some people should never use computers: do you still disagree? |
| dinotrac Jan 11, 2008 7:32 AM EDT |
TC - I am not much of a Mac head...and I've been doing Linux so long I might not even be aware that I work in strange and clunky ways. Do you know what he's talking about, and why he finds it difficult to use separate facilities? |
| montezuma Jan 11, 2008 7:57 AM EDT |
> Do you know what he's talking about, and why he finds it difficult to use separate facilities? Err well in my opinion the answer is very simple but I'd rather not start another "session". |
| Sander_Marechal Jan 11, 2008 7:57 AM EDT |
Do you know of a good FOSS application that does e-mail and calendaring? I haven't found one yet. So far I'm stuck with Thunderbird with a daily build of the Lightning plugin. It sorta works with Exchange notifications but it can't properly handle standard ICS invitations yet... Of course, that's no reason to dump OOo. He could have just installed Outlook and keep OOo for the rest. |
| dinotrac Jan 11, 2008 8:00 AM EDT |
I am so disorganized that I cannot comprehend it, but this seems to be a very big deal to lots of people. Of all the desktop-y things that have been worked on, I'm surprised that nobody has really slain this dragon. Or, have they? |
| Sander_Marechal Jan 11, 2008 8:01 AM EDT |
Well, there's Evolution, but it's really, really crappy. Tried it once and apt-get remove'd it 10 minutes after. Yuck. It's clunky, bloaded, slow, prone to crash and eats my mail. Oh wait, it's actually a pretty good Outlook replacement ;-) |
| tuxchick Jan 11, 2008 8:06 AM EDT |
Well sander, it depends what you want to do. Integration with MS Exchange is difficult, thanks to redmond's usual habit of erecting roadblocks to interoperability. If you just want email, a personal calendar, PIM integration, and such, Linux has a lot of options. Mac OS X I don't know. If you need shared calendaring, contacts, etc. there are gobs of choices: zimbra, Citadel BBS, Open Xchange, a bale of PHP-based apps, Webdav thingies, and all kinds of stuff. The showstopper for a lot of folks, again in the believe-it-or-not category, is they wish to cling to MS Outlook. It's non-standard everything, stores messages in a single giant fragile ugly binary file, and welcomes malware with open arms. But they luv it. The short story: it's hard if you're trying shoehorn other platforms into Redmond-ware. It's fairly easy if you eliminate Exchange and Outlook from your requirements. |
| dinotrac Jan 11, 2008 8:08 AM EDT |
> but it's really, really crappy. OK, Sander...better clarify: Has anybody slain this dragon without creating a giant ground sloth? I'm not really too eager to introduce friends, families and potential clients to great stinking piles that just happen to be free. Sort of defeats the purpose. Although...maybe we should release Evolution for Windows. Sounds like it would fit the culture. |
| dinotrac Jan 11, 2008 8:09 AM EDT |
TC - So, email-pesonal calendar integration is not problem, but email-everybody else's calendar at the same time as yours is a problem? Or do I misunderstand? |
| rijelkentaurus Jan 11, 2008 8:48 AM EDT |
TC, I think Citadel solves a lot of problems if it's used as the email server, it will integrate with Kontact nicely with GroupDAV. But is there anything on a Mac that will do the same? It would probably be easier for this guy if he went all Free, instead of clinging to his Mac. That's like giving up crack in favor of cocaine. I've been talking to some of my smaller clients about Gmail/Google Apps. Everything in a web browser, easy administration, and mobile integration with automatic sync. It will probably work well with larger clients, too, but I'd have to convince my bosses about that one.... |
| Steven_Rosenber Jan 11, 2008 8:56 AM EDT |
Since it's a Mac, what's wrong with OS X's built-in mail client, calendar and address book? And yes, he could go the Gmail route ... Yahoo Mail ... or even Evolution. I don't make heavy use of e-mail clients, but Evolution works well enough for me. I like the way it integrates with the Palm and syncs the handheld's memos, calendar and contacts. I don't have any Exchange requirements ... it's just plain ol' IMAP. |
| NoDough Jan 11, 2008 9:59 AM EDT |
Quoting:I've been talking to some of my smaller clients about Gmail/Google Apps. Everything in a web browser, easy administration, and mobile integration with automatic sync. It will probably work well with larger clients, too, but I'd have to convince my bosses about that one....I'm the IT manager for a small company. Four locations and around 100 seats. Ownership of the data is a huge issue here. We cannot consider hosted email/calendaring because company ownership of the data is a requirement. |
| Sander_Marechal Jan 11, 2008 10:36 AM EDT |
Quoting:If you just want email, a personal calendar, PIM integration, and such, Linux has a lot of options. I'm not clinging to Exchange. We're testing Zarafa at work. All the Exchange crap (like invites) get translated to standard ICS format. Mail is through Courier IMAP and Calendar access through WebDAV. Still, Evolution performs poorly. Thunderbird + Lightning was okay back when I was on Exchange. Lightning would get the timezone wrong for invites send and stored from Exchange, but it sorta worked. Except for viewing other people's calendars ofcourse. Now that I'm on Zarafa, Lighning won't read the ICS files for invites/meetings. If you know of a good IMAP client that also does calendaring through WebDAV and which can handle ICS meeting invitations, please do tell! |
| Scott_Ruecker Jan 11, 2008 11:00 AM EDT |
I guess I missed the boat on this.. I have been using g-mail for so long (4+ years) that I can't imagine not being able to get to, and manage my e-mails. I only recently started using T-bird again, just to see if I could get my g-mail imported to it and so far it has done a really good job of reflecting changes I have made using the web interface and being current. I am just way too used to the web version that I forget to even use T-bird for days. |
| Sander_Marechal Jan 11, 2008 11:55 AM EDT |
I far prefer a local mail client over a web interface. But I do like to access my e-mails from everywhere. Hence I use IMAP as much as possible instead of POP3. And even if I use POP3 I always leave the messages on the server for 7-14 days so I can access them from anywhere though a webmail interface anyway. |
| Steven_Rosenber Jan 11, 2008 12:57 PM EDT |
Gmail users, did you know that you can keep your ENTIRE Gmail session secure just by typing https://gmail.com (instead of plain old http://gmail.com) as your URL when you begin your session? Yep, you can use Gmail, even at a public WiFi hotspot, and not have anybody snooping through your mail. It almost makes me want to switch from Yahoo Mail to Gmail ... Google isn't exactly promoting this feature, nor is it making the secure connection the default. But Yahoo would be wise to add a full secure session to its e-mail offering in the near future. In contrast, I don't think there's all that much top-secret stuff going on in my own company's e-mail, but the server is unencrypted in both directions, so the IT people aren't exactly doing a bang-up job ... If I need to send something and have a bit more security, I use my ISP's secure mail servers. I use Thunderbird in Windows, where it performs reasonably well. When I'm on my laptop, I just use the company's Web-mail interface; I'm just too lazy to open up and configure the mail client ... |
| tuxchick Jan 11, 2008 1:12 PM EDT |
Personal calendaring and PIM integration seem pretty well handled in Linux, dino. I use Kontact, and it even handles Exchange/Outlook-emitted invites. Gnome-PIM I hear is good too. Shared calendaring and contacts seems to be a tougher dragon to slay. The Linux world has gobs of groupware servers, but they're a bit of a job to set up and run. The windoze world has far fewer options; so that's one area in Linux where the customer can actually do some comparison shopping. Mac stuff who knows, I don't do Mac. This article seems kind of dopey. It's like going to a store when you want eggs and milk, but they put the cereal up front and the eggs and milk in back, so you leave in a huff complaining how they only have cereal. |
| pat Jan 11, 2008 1:32 PM EDT |
Try simple group ware. http://www.simple-groupware.de/cms/ |
| hkwint Jan 11, 2008 3:26 PM EDT |
Quoting:If you know of a good IMAP client that also does calendaring through WebDAV and which can handle ICS meeting invitations, please do tell! You might want to try Kontact (Carla uses it, so it can't be bad); and read my book discussion about it: http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54485/index.html I still have that book, and you could have it if you wish. Quoting:I far prefer a local mail client over a web interface. So do I, but for 'legacy' reasons I use Hotmail (OK, you can stone me now, but I have been using it with the same address since '99, which is since 4 years before I learned about free software!). I thought about switching to GMail, but for some reason when it comes to privacy I rather trust Microsoft than Google (I know, rather neither of them, but I don't have an own server). In the past, there was hotwayd, which worked via WebDAV, but after Microsoft found out, they stopped WebDAV support for Hotmail (unless you pay). Microsoft tries kind of hard to make it impossible to use "POP3-emulation" via the webinterface with Hotmail without paying, but the great people behind "freepopsd" are trying even harder! They made "POP3-emulation" possible with Hotmail, and at this moment, it works (Hotmail webinterface in changed rather often, so results for the past are no guarentee for the future). Freepopsd downloads my mail from Hotmail (but you can use it with lots of other crappy webmail too), and then presents itself as a POP3 server to Kontact (or another mail client). It's really slow, but it works. The biggest problem indeed is POP3: If I download it on one of my two PC's it is not available on the other one, and since I don't run my own mail server this has really been a pain in the bottom. If I left the messages on 'hotmail', they were downloaded time and time again, so I ended up having everything three times. I'm glad I don't live at two addresses anymore, that problem is over now. Now should be the right time to start using an own server, so I should find myself a cheap host. Back on topic now. Basically, from my viewpoint the problem of this 'varguy' is rather simple: Mac OS X suffers from a lack of free quality apps in some areas compared to Linux. |
| Sander_Marechal Jan 11, 2008 3:41 PM EDT |
You don't really need your own server, though it can be useful if you want to use IMAP for instance. What you really need is your own domain name. Something that is guaranteed to be yours and which you can move from service to service as you please. I'm sure hotmail can forward e-mail to your new address. |
| Scott_Ruecker Jan 11, 2008 4:23 PM EDT |
That's funny Sander, I never would have guessed that you would prefer a client to web based e-mail. |
| Sander_Marechal Jan 11, 2008 4:41 PM EDT |
My e-mail is important. I wouldn't trust anyone but me hosting it. Besides, it makes managing e-mail faster (local hard disk). Local e-mail clients also have more features (TB plugins for example), are better integrated in the desktop and let me view my e-mail even when I'm offline. Webmail is nice for emergency access. |
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