Stupid blog
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| montezuma Dec 22, 2007 6:04 AM EDT |
His main point is that because he uses the unsupported program envy (written by a Ubuntu forum member not a Ubuntu developer) to set his video driver that every time the kernel is updated his system is borked. Get a clue or start using windows again man! He would have won more sympathy from me if he had explained why he was using envy. Without this he just comes off as clueless. |
| dinotrac Dec 22, 2007 8:20 AM EDT |
>He would have won more sympathy from me if he had explained why he was using envy. Without this he just comes off as clueless. I don't know why he uses envy, but I started using it on my buntu boxes because it did a good job of keeping Nvidia working with the latest drivers when my X fell over otherwise. |
| pat Dec 22, 2007 9:07 AM EDT |
Montezuma, I think the first word for you subject describes your post. |
| montezuma Dec 22, 2007 9:48 AM EDT |
Look if you use envy because the standard Ubuntu restricted drivers do not work for you then the complaint is fair enough but this was not made clear in the blog. It is also made abundantly clear by Alberto who wrote envy that every kernel upgrade means rerunning envy. To blame Ubuntu for THAT is just silly..... |
| tuxchick Dec 22, 2007 9:57 AM EDT |
Montezuma, Envy is not supported by Ubuntu, which even a ranty blogger could learn with a quick web search:
https://launchpad.net/envy/
'Envy: Unofficial ATI and NVIDIA driver installer for Ubuntu' Though he kept saying 'Envoy', so maybe it has something to do with porky overpriced SUVs. http://www.gmc.com/envoy/envoy/index.jsp?seo=goo_envoyRT |
| montezuma Dec 22, 2007 10:08 AM EDT |
Yeah TC, the number of ranty *buntu users is getting on my nerves a bit.... GMC Envoy, Good one! About the right level there TC. |
| devnet Dec 22, 2007 11:33 AM EDT |
Wow, You guys sure ripped into him on this. Let's put this into perspective shall we? What do people blame when blue screens happen in Windows XP? Do we blame Joe Smith, author of application the user just installed? Or do we blame Microsoft and Windows XP? Exactly, we blame the OS. This is a common perception of people who use technology. Now you and I know that Envy is a program written by someone in the forum and not supported...but other people may not think so. They see Ubuntu forums and think, "hey, this is supported!". If ubuntu doesn't want to be associated with it, they need to make a bold statement about installing outside of repositories and make sure everyone knows. My old distro, PCLinuxOS, makes this statement...if you install outside the repository, you're on your own. Ubuntu needs to make this statement, and if they have already, they need to make it more loudly this time. This user is 100% correct...why? Because they perceive there to be a problem. The mere perception of a problem means there is one. Even if the user is incorrect, the fact that he/she brought attention to what he/she thought was a problem...MADE it a problem (even if said "problem" doesn't exist). Wrap your head around that one...I had to when I started working at a huge (15k+ employees) corporation and running their IT Department. No matter if I thought a problem wasn't a problem...the perception that a problem existed meant that I was accountable for resolving that problem...perception or not. So I don't fault this guy. I don't think his entire blog is STUPID either (that's a stretch montezuma...based on your comment here, I could say that all your posts are STUPID on lxer...but that would be a generalization...which you're familiar with since you generalized this dude's blog). |
| montezuma Dec 22, 2007 11:42 AM EDT |
devnet, As I said above, the envy documentation states clearly that: a) This is not supported by Ubuntu b) If you upgrade the kernel you need to rerun envy. If a user does not read this and instead chooses to vent I think that is stupid. It cannot possibly be Ubuntu's responsibility to monitor all third party projects to ensure they do not cause user problems. In fact there are warnings all over the Ubuntu documentation about certain third party apps causing problems e.g. Automatix. The whole nature of open source software is a loosely controlled environment. If you want things to work in a predictable fashion then follow the Ubuntu release notes. If not then be prepared for issues. Personally I don't rigidly follow the release notes and when something breaks I fix it without whining. |
| ridgid Dec 22, 2007 11:53 AM EDT |
I am with the others on this devnet, if that person would use their time to learn about what they are running and not how many ad's can they stick on their blog so they can make money posting complaints ... they might not have anything to gripe about |
| salparadise Dec 22, 2007 9:17 PM EDT |
Ahh, Linux users eh?
Let's tear anyone who says something that's not 100% correct to pieces. That will encourage them to learn and persevere. Sigh. The complaint even had the traditional words in it "or go back to Windows". I despair. For the record, I've had "nvidia" cards that will NOT work with the main Ubuntu driver and that have required me to get the NVIDIA.run installer from the main nvidia site. Maybe it's cheap knock off nvidia cards or maybe it's something else. The last release of Ubuntu - (7.04 - I think) would not run my screen at anything other than 800x600 without extensive searching and messing about with xorg.conf. It doesn't always work out of the box and it isn't always the users fault when this happens. |
| tracyanne Dec 22, 2007 10:45 PM EDT |
Quoting:The last release of Ubuntu - (7.04 - I think) would not run my screen at anything other than 800x600 without extensive searching and messing about with xorg.conf. It doesn't always work out of the box and it isn't always the users fault when this happens. And I have still not managed to get any Ubuntu distro to work properly out of the box, which is why I don't use Ubuntu, and why I don't recommend it to anyone. |
| hkwint Dec 23, 2007 4:20 AM EDT |
Apart from the valid point of the ads on the blog, I agree with Devnet. This user has a problem, and no matter how 'stupid' he is and how little effort he did to fix his problem, he still has a problem that need to be fixed. If the solution is 'this user doesn't have a clue and needs to get one' I'm afraid his problem will still keep existing. Also, if he switches back to Windows, it doesn't fix his (Ubuntu)problem either. Off course, "we" are not happy with people earning ad-money by badmouthing GNU/Linux (Ubuntu) if they just didn't read or ignore the warnings, but hey, most ActiveX applets show a warning too before borking your system, don't they? Also, nVidia is probably one of the parties to blame (I need to reinstall nvidia-drivers everytime I update the kernel also; I wonder if that's technically necessary?), but we cannot pretend the problem doesn't exist. Isn't that something out of the marketing world, "The user is always right"? Even this kind of people earning with ads on their 'ranty' blog deserve support in my opinion. It's sad I don't know Ubuntu or Envy in particular, I can't help. It would be best to ask the blogger to 'blog' again how he fixed the problem in my opinion, and what mistake he made in first place. |
| hughesjr Dec 23, 2007 9:10 AM EDT |
we can certainly blame him for installing something on Ubuntu that is not part of it ... then complaining that Ubuntu is broken. Envy on Ubuntu is broken ... Ubuntu (in this case) is not. If he was complaining that Nvidia on Linux was broken ... fine. If he was complaining that Envy was broken ... fine. This wonderful guy also did a hit piece on the CentOS based on the Live CD ... personally, I think he needs a technology clue bat ... but that is just me. |
| hkwint Dec 23, 2007 10:16 AM EDT |
Quoting:we can certainly blame him for installing something on Ubuntu that is not part of it ... then complaining that Ubuntu is broken OK, I can agree with that; missed that point probably. Maybe I was a bit too quick in my response. On the other hand, from what I read, I understand his settings were borked after upgrading and before running Envy. At the Envy-site there's a bit fat warning saying: WARNING! You have to remove your old envy driver before upgrading Debian or Ubuntu! That must be where it went wrong. Maybe though the Ubuntu people don't have the obligation to support Envy, they could help out their Envy-users by making the Ubuntu-update detect if Envy is installed or not, and give an extra warning? At Microsoft, there used to be a small group of programmers fixing bugs in 3d party apps by programming 'dirty hacks' into Windows, since people usually blamed Windows for the problems with their 3d party apps. That's just how people reason, and it's difficult to change that, since that would require a change in their behaviour. It would be great if Ubuntu had a service that tries to file bugs to 3d party applications or provides a workaround for bugs in 3d party applications, though of course it isn't their problem. But it would still be neat. |
| jdixon Dec 29, 2007 8:13 PM EDT |
> For the record, I've had "nvidia" cards that will NOT work with the main Ubuntu driver and that have required me to get the NVIDIA.run installer from the main nvidia site. While it's not certain, it's likely that your cards user older chipsets. Older NVidia chipsets are no longer supported by their current drivers, you have to get their "legacy" drivers, which their installer probably does for you. I think even the onboard 6100 chipsets on my current system are now considered legacy, though I could be mistaken about that (I'm using the nv driver instead). I know my former card (an MX-440) was. |
| gus3 Dec 29, 2007 8:37 PM EDT |
> While it's not certain, it's likely that your cards user older chipsets. Older NVidia chipsets are no longer supported by their current drivers, you have to get their "legacy" drivers, which their installer probably does for you. And now their legacy drivers won't compile on the most recent kernels. "nv" driver for me, thanks. |
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