Good idea. Good arguments. Wrong solution.
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Sander_Marechal Oct 08, 2007 12:50 PM EDT |
The article is quite good, but it misses the mark on the proposed solution: [quote]All hardware manufacturers should ship personal computers with no pre-installed operating system. They should include within the packaging of the computer a media copy of the then current Microsoft Windows recovery CD. They should also include a copy of one of the main Linux distributions which are freely-redistributable at no charge. Upon unpacking the computer, the consumer must then make a choice of either[quote] Not necessary and burdensome for the consumer. Hardware manufacturers should still be able to pre-install Windows and sell it. Unbundling doesn't mean not preinstalling anymore. It means you have to make a conscious choice and pay the hardware manufacturer for the service of installing it. E.g: ======================================== Order form step 2 of 3 Computer XYZ with hardeware ABC: $399 Operating system: [ ] Microsoft Windows OEM $89 [ ] Anti virus software $59 [X] Ubuntu Linux Feisty Fawn $0 Anti virus not required [ ] No operating system $0 [X] Preinstall this operating system: $20 [X] One year OS phone support: $50 Total: $469 Continue >> ======================================== The point is that you have to make a choice to get Windows. You don't get it automatically. And if the OEM's are smart they can charge for the additional service of preinstalling it and boost their margins. |
| tracyanne Oct 08, 2007 1:07 PM EDT |
Quoting:..............Upon unpacking the computer, the consumer must then make a choice of either The example you've given is, as far as I can tell, what the EU body that put the idea forward has in mind - there's an article on lxer somewhere about it. The argument that the computer hardware would be sold without software is, I think typical Microsoftian FUD. Being able to select what goes into your computer, hardware and software, should be the right of every computer purchaser. |
| dinotrac Oct 08, 2007 1:08 PM EDT |
>The point is that you have to make a choice to get Windows. I think it's heading that way for manufacturers like Dell who fulfill online orders on a machine by machine basis. I'm not so sure about big box stores where a lot of Americans buy their PCs. It could be argued that you make a choice to get Windows by buying a Windows PC instead of a Mac or a white box. BTW -- How does Mac fit into all this? I'm not aware that you get any choice of OS when you buy one of their PCs. |
| Bob_Robertson Oct 08, 2007 2:06 PM EDT |
> It could be argued that you make a choice to get Windows by buying a Windows PC instead of a Mac or a white box. I consider it as such. Sadly, so much effort is being wasted bashing Microsoft rather than advertising the alternative(s). Hooray for the Tux Racer effort and other adverts, I'd rather "win" this "war" by being better than by having bigger guns. > How does Mac fit into all this? I'm not aware that you get any choice of OS when you buy one of their PCs. According to the article, since Apple supplies both the hardware and software, they're absolved from the requirement, in the same way that Microsoft could offer a Microsoft PC with only Microsoft software preinstalled and not be "bundling" by their definition. I consider it a convenient rationalization in spades, because they _like_ Apple and don't _like_ Microsoft. |
| Sander_Marechal Oct 08, 2007 2:32 PM EDT |
Quoting:I'm not so sure about big box stores where a lot of Americans buy their PCs. I am quite sure that the think tank that proposed the unbundling also wants to see it in the high street shops. After all, how long does it take to ghost a default OEM installation on a hard disk? 10-15 minutes maybe? It's really just a matter of how fast your CD/DVD reader is and how fast your hard drive can write. Plus, the shops could keep a few pre-ghosted machines in the back so a cusomer does not have to wait if he wants a machine with an OS preinstalled. What it all comes down to is that the cosumer has to say he wants Windows with it and realizes that it costs him another $60-$200 extra - on top of the hardware. It's an option. And by default it's "off". |
| dinotrac Oct 08, 2007 2:47 PM EDT |
>After all, how long does it take to ghost a default OEM installation on a hard disk? 10-15 minutes maybe? In the US, you start falling all over the intent of antitrust laws when you say things like that. In-store configurability means extra cost and extra time for stores that are intended to be cheap and convenient. Not sure there's a consumer benefit there. |
| Sander_Marechal Oct 08, 2007 2:59 PM EDT |
Well, they sell ghosted computers right now, don't they? It's just that they're all ghosted with the same OS. It all boils down to inventory management 101. Estimate your demand and stock X Windows PCs. Y Linux PCs and Z no-OS PCs. And the nice thing here is that if you estimate wrong, you can re-ghost a machine instead of disappointing the customer with an out-of-stock. Plus I bet that if I walk into one of those stores and say "I want this PC but with an extra 250 GB drive in it. Here's money for the computer, the drive and the service of putting it in" that they won't turn me down. They already do in-store configurability. For a price. The OS is just another part, just like an extra hard drive or a video card upgrade. |
| Bob_Robertson Oct 08, 2007 4:26 PM EDT |
> They already do in-store configurability. For a price. That depends entirely on the store. The WalMart/Sams/CostCo/Target/Kmart stores do not. You buy the Dell/Gateway/Compaq/HP that is in the sealed box, pre-packaged and cookie-cutter. If you want a bigger HD, at best they're on that shelf over there. Have fun. CircuitCity/BestBuy/etc already charge a premium, but the bulk of their sales are still factory sealed boxes. Take a card up to the check-out counter, someone will bring you your PC to you. Price pressure is so great that the makers don't even include recovery CDs any more. That doesn't mean the _couldn't_ provide a boot DVD that would put an OEM-perfect ghost image of your choice of OS on the disk when you get home, just that the first thing people want to do when they get home is use the machine, not spend an hour leaving the machine plugged in and alone. Preinstallation is an issue, in my opinion, because preinstallation is a selling point. I'd be thrilled if they let me put Knoppix of PCLinuxOS disks out for free, but the stores don't want the liability for someone maybe erasing their HD by "mistake". |
| Sander_Marechal Oct 08, 2007 10:39 PM EDT |
Quoting:The WalMart/Sams/CostCo/Target/Kmart stores do not. You buy the Dell/Gateway/Compaq/HP that is in the sealed box, pre-packaged and cookie-cutter. And without an OS pre-installed, or with a ghosting/recovery CD in the box (which you pay for separately). Quoting:Preinstallation is an issue, in my opinion, because preinstallation is a selling point. All the more reason to go shop at your local computer store where they do preinstall your OS of choice. And put in that extra harddrive you wanted while they're at it. Wallmart can adapt. Fox example, they can stock computers with different OSes installed. And I am sure a whole host of different and ever more creative solutions can be found. Preinstallation isn't a unique selling point today because everything comes preinstalled with the same thing: Windows. It's not a differentiator. It's just convenience to the customer. Sure, unbundling does have it's problems, and some type of stores will have to adapt more then others, but the advantages far outweight the downsides in my mind. Besides, we don't have Wallmart-like stores here in Europe and this is a European proposal, not a US proposal. The closest thing would be the French hypermarkets and they are more like overblown grocery stores. |
| dinotrac Oct 09, 2007 2:09 AM EDT |
>All the more reason to go shop at your local computer store where they do preinstall your OS of choice. You'll get no argument from me. >but the advantages far outweight the downsides in my mind. That's the nasty thing about freedom. It doesn't mean anything in the absence of alternatives. The presence of alternatives implies the presence of things that don't make much sense in your mind. |
| jdixon Oct 09, 2007 4:53 AM EDT |
> And without an OS pre-installed, or with a ghosting/recovery CD in the box (which you pay for separately). Walmart will not sell a computer that won't work out of the box. They know their demographic, and they know that requiring them to install an OS will result in a 98% return rate. > All the more reason to go shop at your local computer store where they do preinstall your OS of choice. In my case, all the more reason to order a barebones unit, assemble it, and install the OS myself. |
| Bob_Robertson Oct 09, 2007 4:57 AM EDT |
> Preinstallation ... It's just convenience to the customer. Exactly. People pay a great deal, in both treasure and mind-share, for convenience. > unbundling does have it's problems, and some type of stores will have to adapt more then others, but the advantages far outweight the downsides in my mind. Then go right ahead and buy "unbundled". Why force everyone else to do the same? For some people, those downsides will be greater than the benefits. When Mussolini was setting up his "Fascism", one of the big arguments he used was the elimination of "wasteful" duplication of effort. It is a very persuasive argument, on its surface. |
| Sander_Marechal Oct 09, 2007 7:48 AM EDT |
Quoting:Walmart will not sell a computer that won't work out of the box. Then they'll need to stock up. Of find another creative solution. Quoting:Then go right ahead and buy "unbundled". Why force everyone else to do the same? Unbundled does *not* mean that an OS cannot be preinstalled. Which has been my point in this entire thread. Just that Joe Consumer has to make an active choice as to *what* gets preinstalled. And at what price. |
| dinotrac Oct 09, 2007 8:02 AM EDT |
>Just that Joe Consumer has to make an active choice as to *what* gets preinstalled. And at what price. In the US, Joe Consumer does that every day. Walking into Best Buy to pick out a computer is an active choice as is assembling a machine off zipzoomfly. |
| Bob_Robertson Oct 09, 2007 1:31 PM EDT |
> Walking into Best Buy to pick out a computer is an active choice as is assembling a machine off zipzoomfly.
Seconded. People _act_. They are not flatworms or rocks. |
| jdixon Oct 09, 2007 1:44 PM EDT |
> Then they'll need to stock up. Of find another creative solution. Or their most likely solution: Not sell computers at all. |
Posting in this forum is limited to members of the group: [ForumMods, SITEADMINS, MEMBERS.]
Becoming a member of LXer is easy and free. Join Us!