competition for compilers!!!
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| dinotrac Aug 26, 2007 7:40 AM EDT |
So, Linus, are you saying that the GNU monopoly is a bad thing? I would love to see more competition, too. For example, gcc is an incredible kitchen sink. There's much to complain about in any given use, but when you step back it's hard not to say, "That'll do, pig." I could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that gcc can compile code for my toaster. Pretty amazing. Wouldn't it be nice, though, to have other choices? Maybe one that REALLY rocks on AMDs? Whatever. Or, maybe, it would just be nice to shut RMS up the next time he goes on a GNU/Linux tantrum. |
| dinotrac Aug 26, 2007 7:45 AM EDT |
On a very vaguely related note: I just got 2.6.23-rc3 working on my 3.5 year old Athlon 64 box. I'd been using mostly stock kernels before, with the proprietary NVIDIA drivers, and the system felt a might sluggish. Pulled some hair getting this one up. The NVIDIA kernel module didn't want to build -- freakin proprietary installer,etc...Finally got a patch, used some advanced options, built it by hand and got it to go. Lost my eth0, then discovered that my Marvell driver was no longer included, but only because a different driver was preferred. Now up with X, 3D acceleration, and my eth0. However, with preemptability and the new CFS, most of the sluggish feel is gone. It's almost like a new box. Happy dance time. |
| herzeleid Aug 26, 2007 8:05 AM EDT |
Wow. I'm not sure I want to wait the 6 months or so it will take for CFS to get into vendor kernels - I may just have to do a dino and roll my own, and have a look see. |
| dinotrac Aug 26, 2007 8:25 AM EDT |
>I may just have to do a dino and roll my own I tend to stick with vendor kernels because I don't like to go through the hassle. I have ventured away lately because of specific device drivers (a realtek-based wireless USB dongle, for one), but this one was driven by all of the video I do, including a strong desire to run HD mythtv on a low horsepower box. Don't know if it will work for everyone -- for example, video is 2D stuff, not 3D, and the only serious serving I do is myth backend to frontends -- but I'm real darned happy right now. |
| herzeleid Aug 26, 2007 8:46 AM EDT |
> I tend to stick with vendor kernels because I don't like to go through the hassle. Same here - but, back in the day in 1995 we had to compile our Slackware kernels with the correct hard-coded port, irq and dma channel parameters so we could get sound effects and music when we played doom! Once the vendors started shipping modular kernels, I was happy to run the vendor kernel since it "just worked". But when the low-latency and preemptible development started in earnest, I had to check it out and once again, it was gaming that drove the change. q3a and RtCW ran noticeably better with the preempt and low-latency patches. Now, in the quest for ever smoother 3D FPS gaming, I'm obliged to try the CFS kernel. I'm a bit rusty since I have never had to compile a kernel since my distro started shipping a 2.6 kernel in 2004, so I suppose it's high time to get started. Let the lower-latency games begin! |
| dinotrac Aug 26, 2007 9:00 AM EDT |
> I'm obliged to try the CFS kernel. I'm a bit rusty Great! Fair warning -- 3D FPS is one area where the CFS hasn't necessarily proved its worth yet. That's a 2-way street, however. It's been getting tweaked as Ingo goes along, so it may well be wonderful now. And, early reports may not have been reliable. Either way -- you either get good performance or a corner case to report. Worth a look. |
| Bob_Robertson Aug 26, 2007 10:51 AM EDT |
Because of the paravirtualization option being flagged "GPL Only" and enabled by Debian in 2.6.19-21, the Nvidia proprietary module would not compile. So I've recently had a refresher course in kernel compiling. I must say that the Debian scripted build is very easy, compared to the vanilla kernel 2.2.19 on RedHat in 2001 which is the last time I had done it by hand. I'm quite curious about the CFS's effects. Thanks for bringing it up. |
| azerthoth Aug 26, 2007 11:12 AM EDT |
hmm, this is interesting enough I may have to try my hand at doing a kernel in Sabayon/Gentoo. I'v done it half a dozen times or so under Debian, but none since the switch. Since I am one of those types who is a gamer and also has a nasty habit of running both the cores up to 100% for extended periods even when not gaming I think I'd like to see the results of CFS first hand. >adds new kernel to project list in the sometime in the next 2 weeks category. |
| herzeleid Aug 28, 2007 10:34 PM EDT |
Wow, good times - compiled a kernel for the first time in years - lucy: /home/jjs (tty/dev/pts/1): bash: 1001 > uname -a Linux lucy 2.6.23-rc4-default #1 SMP Tue Aug 28 22:59:25 PDT 2007 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux No surprises, and everything works - just did a make cloneconfig with my vendor kernel source, then moved the .config to the new source dir and did a make oldconfig, and we were off to the races. Played a quick game of q3a and it certainly feels smoother, but I know, that's subjective. We'll see how it goes... |
| dinotrac Aug 29, 2007 3:18 AM EDT |
> that's subjective Don't undervalue subjective feel. We tend to emphasize the "objective", but that's because we can measure it, not because it's more important. |
| Bob_Robertson Aug 29, 2007 5:21 AM EDT |
> > that's subjective
> Don't undervalue subjective feel. One of the great insights of Austrian economics is that all value is subjective. No two people value a thing the same, nor does one person value it the same over time. |
| dinotrac Aug 29, 2007 5:52 AM EDT |
>One of the great insights of Austrian economics I didn't know it at the time, but I was lucky to get my econ undergraduate at Michigan State. I never even thought about economics before college, and only chose the major after acing a required course and having my professor suggest I consider it. The lucky part? Folks at MSU seemed to have more interest in the underlying psychology of economics than other places. I would never forget the huge pile of assumptions that underlies all of the fancy models. |
| Bob_Robertson Aug 29, 2007 9:24 AM EDT |
> the huge pile of assumptions that underlies all of the fancy models. Yep. Another reason the Keynsians hate the Austrians, the Austrians reject the quantitative models. I'm very glad to now know that my impression about your economics lessons from the last time this subject came up was wrong. |
| dinotrac Aug 29, 2007 9:40 AM EDT |
>I'm very glad to now know that my impression about your economics lessons from the last time this subject came up was wrong. Me too. Equally glad to see your economics background is more entertaining than many: not the "dismal art" school. |
| jrm Aug 29, 2007 9:56 AM EDT |
> I was lucky to get my econ undergraduate at Michigan State. I was even luckier. Mine was from the University of Illinois. ;-) > my impression about your economics lessons A lot of people are forced to take macroeconomics as one of their first classes and then they decide to hate econ. It doesn't have to be like that. One of the most interesting classes I've ever taken in my life was "The Economic History of the U.S.". |
| jdixon Aug 29, 2007 10:01 AM EDT |
I think the last online quiz I took on the subject indicated I was more closely aligned to the Chicago school of econonics that any other, but as I remember they are as equally dismissive of Keynesian economics as the Austrians. I took two semesters of economics in college, but that was the limit of my formal education. I've sometimes considered that fortunate. |
| Abe Aug 29, 2007 10:02 AM EDT |
Quoting:but I was lucky to get my econ undergraduate at Michigan State Now I see the good side in you. :) |
| dinotrac Aug 29, 2007 10:15 AM EDT |
>Now I see the good side in you. :) Are you kidding? I'm nothing but good sides ;0) |
| Abe Aug 29, 2007 10:34 AM EDT |
Quoting:Are you kidding? I'm nothing but good sides ;0)So why you make them so hard to see! Don't be so modest you devil's advocate you. :) It seems to be a nice day around here. How is it in Chicago Illinois? |
| dinotrac Aug 29, 2007 10:47 AM EDT |
>How is it in Chicago Illinois? Can't speak for downtown, as I'm 30-40 miles due west, on the Fox river, but... It's a pretty nice day. A bit overcast, but a bit cooler than yesterday. Certainly better than last week's storms and floods. |
| Bob_Robertson Aug 29, 2007 1:52 PM EDT |
JD, I recall what might have been the same quiz. The "bell curve" for responses was somewhere toward the low-end of government intervention, then the Chicago school was not so many, but there was a large spike right up against the "anarchy" end of the spectrum, complete "separation of economy and state." Hang on.... http://www.mises.org/quiz.asp?QuizID=4 There ya go. |
| herzeleid Aug 29, 2007 2:13 PM EDT |
> Can't speak for downtown, as I'm 30-40 miles due west, on the Fox river, but... You're near Chicago dino? Small world - I was there for some IBM training recently and I'd have stopped by with a virtual beer if I'd known... |
| dinotrac Aug 29, 2007 2:42 PM EDT |
>virtual beer Me no drink no virtual beer. I have, however, downed more than a few liquid versions at Blackie's, which is down by the two big loop train stations. |
| herzeleid Aug 29, 2007 3:21 PM EDT |
> Me no drink no virtual beer. I have, however, downed more than a few liquid versions at Blackie's, which is down by the two big loop train stations. Haha, that's the beauty of virtual beer, it can be always converted into your choice... Next time I'm going back to Chicago I'll ping you. |
| jdixon Aug 29, 2007 6:56 PM EDT |
Bob: I'm not sure if it's the same quiz or not, but it's similar. I'll try to take it when I have more time and see if I still come out the same or not. |
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