Why Dell's Linux PC's will sell well
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Sander_Marechal May 20, 2007 12:14 AM EDT |
Quoting:From this employee's note, it appears that Dell doesn't expect these system to sell all that well. "We expect these systems to be less than 1% of our OS mix for the entire year which is ~20,000 systems annually," he is quoted as saying. I just thought up a very simple reason why they will sell quite well IMHO: Quoting:Dell has indicated that pricing for these systems will be lower than that of their Vista-powered twins. That means that anyone who already has an OS which they want to use, will buy the Linux PC rather than the Vista PC, simply because it's cheaper. This includes anyone who has a Windows installation CD at home (whether they bought a boxed Vista and now need new hardware, or because they want to stay with XP or 2K), any company that has a bulk license agreement for Windows (at the moment they pay twice for the OS. Once for the OEM, once for the version they image on the machine with their Volume License Key). Oh, and let's not forge anyone running pirated versions of Windows. All that on top of the customers who buy them because they come with Linux. 20.000 should be an easy target :-) |
| hkwint May 20, 2007 3:58 AM EDT |
You forget Dell is very good in hiding Linux-offers on their website, in such a manner that humans can't find them. Let's hope it will be better this time. |
| Aladdin_Sane May 20, 2007 4:57 AM EDT |
hkwint: Right. Plus the n-Series are not at a compelling price point. Plus nobody makes an attempt to find the well-hidden systems because of no marketing budget for them. Plus not everybody at Dell knows they sell those. Plus, there is no reason for those who work at Dell to train on them: They are the same as the non-n-Series, no point in mentioning the n-Series in training/familiarization sessions. Remember, please all, that the new Ubuntu systems are "DHS" aka client/consumer (Dimension, Inspiron, and XPS) and that the n-Series are "BSD" aka business/enterprise (Optiplex, Latitude, and Precision). But Sander could be right. It's the big "if" in this market experiment. |
| dinotrac May 20, 2007 5:16 AM EDT |
What strange thinking -- WHY ON EARTH would Dell intentionally hide Linux boxes? They wouldn't. Dell is in business to make money. The biggest worry is that their projection for low volume will limit the resources they expend on marketing and on web-site construction. That could create the old "self-fulfilling prophecy" effect. |
| bigg May 20, 2007 5:51 AM EDT |
Well, as I said before, if the laptops really do come with Dell Wireless 1390 cards, this is more of an insult than anything. We just had a thread on the difficulties with that card. I've battled it as well, and so have many others. Worse yet, the link SJVN provided showed laptops with ATI video cards. Even those who hate software freedom have a passionate hatred for ATI video cards. I'll wait and see, because this is exactly what Dell said they wouldn't do. |
| dinotrac May 20, 2007 7:08 AM EDT |
>We just had a thread on the difficulties with that card. Of course, that ignores the possibility that Dell might just get the card working well with Linux. |
| rijelkentaurus May 20, 2007 8:03 AM EDT |
Quoting: Of course, that ignores the possibility that Dell might just get the card working well with Linux. And while I understand the skepticism, it's reasonable to assume that Dell will have it working correctly unless they want to appear rather inept to the people they are targeting with the new systems. It might be a binary driver, but at least it would work. I also think that you have an upgrade option on most of their laptops to go with an Intel card. |
| dcparris May 20, 2007 8:11 AM EDT |
I agree with dino and rijelkentaurus. If Dell is going to sell laptops with a particular piece of hardware - whatever that may be - they will have to ensure it works or end up looking stupid. |
| bigg May 20, 2007 9:18 AM EDT |
It can be made to work, but it defeats the purpose of calling something a Linux laptop. What most of the comments on their website said is "We want to install Linux without having a ton of hardware problems." I would also like to tell someone inquiring about Linux, buy laptop X from Dell, it will work with either Windows or Linux. If this is their plan, it wouldn't actually do anything to help on the hardware front except for someone who wants Ubuntu 7.04. It would eliminate the installation step, but that's not at all what was requested, or what they said they would do. I'll wait for the official announcement before drawing any conclusions. I can't imagine that there's not more than we have seen thus far. |
| hkwint May 20, 2007 9:36 AM EDT |
Quoting:What strange thinking -- Please ask Dell, not me. The facts are - all Linux offerings from Dell have always been put very far away at their websites till this day, no matter if it was on their US page or the French page - it took gigajoules of energy to actually find a Dell/Linux offering. Microsoft may have to do with it, I don't know. Only Dell does. These are just the facts, and using logic in your argumentation sounds logical to me, but apparently Dell doesn't do business in a logical way. |
| dcparris May 20, 2007 10:25 AM EDT |
Well, I recall that Dell got a lot less response than they anticipated the last time around. And while the numbers have certainly changed, I expect they will be conservative this time. In fact, if they play it conservative, and demand proves to be greater, they can (pretend to) be pleasantly surprised. If no one buys their Ubuntu boxes, they can write off a minimum investment. It's similar to when grass roots organizations plan group meetings. If you rent out a stadium and 30 people show up, well, you look quite silly. If you rent a small conference room that will hold up to 50 people, and a big crowd packs the house, the group can show there's more interest than they expected. If only the 30 people show up, then the venue fits the bill just fine. In this case, Dell may even be basing their current plan on their previous experience, with some increase to account for the increased awareness of GNU/Linux. |
| Aladdin_Sane May 20, 2007 10:25 AM EDT |
hkwint: Of course MS has something to do with it, just exactly *what* is an opinion based on ones proclivity for paranoia -- Dell, like all entities that are no more than a group of individuals, doesn't really know either. bigg: I know (meaning I commiserate). But incompetence, not malice, is the likely reason for Broadcom's, ATI's, and Dell's driver "issues." Remember that today it is ATI and Broadcom, yesterday it was nVidia and winmodems, tomorrow it will be something else. Also realize that portables are not modular the same way desktops are, you can't just choose any video cards that work, in this case it is the ATI video card that Inspiron E1505 is stuck with, Dell has used nVidia in the past; there is clearly fierce competition there for Dell's business. All-in-all I feel that the Ubuntu move is Mr. Dell, now in his 40's, finally "growing a pair," as they say. |
| jdixon May 20, 2007 12:41 PM EDT |
Sigh, but it looks like they'll only offer Linux on their Intel line, not their AMD line. The E510 uses Intel processors. The E521 uses AMD processors, and isn't mentioned. Oh well, time to build my own box again. :( |
| tuxchick May 20, 2007 1:14 PM EDT |
jdixon, it makes me wonder what kind of sweet deal Intel is giving Dell, because at the retail level AMD CPUs almost always cost significantly less. PC vendors pinch pennies until they beg for mercy, so I'm assuming they're getting a special price break. |
| hkwint May 20, 2007 1:26 PM EDT |
Quoting:Oh well, time to build my own box again. :( I've been thinking about building my own 'Dell' laptops. The most important parts (mobo + case,PSU+ LCD-screen) can be bought pre-assembled from Quanta (same Quanta as in OLPC) or Compal in Taiwan (that's where Dell-laptops, and moreover 2/3 of all laptops worldwide come from!), and processors, RAM and optical drives can be bought from the same companies Dell buys it from (AMD, Hitachi etc). Some small Linux-vendors indeed do this: I remember a company called 'Crown' selling laptops which were almost identical to Dell laptops, but without the Dell mark and without Windows, which is just what we want. We even had a thread about it at LXer, comparing the configuration and prices of the two (the thread involved cyber_rigger, who would later start the LXer 'Pre-installed Linux Vendor Database'). (Ah, there they are; http://www.powernotebooks.com/category.php?catId=79 Love them, Vista Ultimate laptops are $200 more expensive than no-OS laptops, which is the way it ought to be) The only problem here: Dell buys 10 million Quanta laptops, Crown only buys 1000 or so, which means Crown has to pay more per laptop. That's why the same Dell laptops, even with Windows included, are cheaper. Starting a new company won't help to resolve the issue. Joining the forces of all small 'Linux-OEMs' will: If all those 'mom and dadshops' (that's how they say it in popular US language I understood) buy those Quanta/Compal cases together, they will end up paying less per laptop, and that would make Linux laptops cheaper, even while competition decreases! (now, which free market thinker would have thought that?) Problem is, I don't have any authority (like ESR or so) to suggest that to all small Linux-OEMs, but I still think it's a good plan. If it works, Linux laptops could equal the prices of comparable Windows laptops, and at that time Dell, HP etc. will 'really' start to ship/support Linux. Thinking about it, sales of the small Linux-OEMs will rise as the laptops becomes cheaper while at the same time the profit margin won't drop, which is good for the small Linux-OEMs too. |
| Sander_Marechal May 20, 2007 2:59 PM EDT |
Quoting:Well, as I said before, if the laptops really do come with Dell Wireless 1390 cards, this is more of an insult than anything. Couple of points: 1) IIRC Ubuntu Feisty works with Broadcom 2) i've also read that while the Dell 1390's are based off Broadcom's 1390, they're not exactly the same, and that Dell's 1390 works with the reversed engineered drivers. 3) If you go to Dell's website and look at the laptop's tech sheet, you see that they can also come with Intel Wireless (which works very well in Linux). |
| tuxchick May 20, 2007 3:02 PM EDT |
Broadcom are teh poo for Linux. Any hardware vendor that is serious about supporting Linux is going to use something else. Ralink, Realtek, Atheros, Intel- lots of choices for OEMs. |
| NoDough May 20, 2007 3:54 PM EDT |
Man! You guys make me feel bad for Dell. For starters, Mr. Dell "[grew] a pair" when he risked his future and his family's livelihood to start a business of his own. Unless I have at least attempted the same, I'm hardly in a position to criticize. Dell hasn't announced which options will be included, and we're already whining about whether they are including our favorite processor/WLAN/video/etc/etc/etc. Give 'em a break and at least wait till they tell us what's included. Next, we assume that Dell will bury the Linux selections on their site. The campaign hasn't begun yet. How do you know what they are going to do. Have you ever heard the breakdown of the word assume? Finally, we conclude that Dell computers suck so bad that we're going to have to contact the parts manufacturer's and build our own computers to Dell's specs. Am I the only one here that sees that as an oxymoron? Gee whiz, guys! Give 'em a chance, will ya? |
| jdixon May 20, 2007 4:10 PM EDT |
> Gee whiz, guys! Give 'em a chance, will ya? Oh, I'm going to NoDough, I'm going to. I won't order my new system until I get back from vacation on May 28th. If Dell has the E521 with Linux at that time, I'll order one. Otherwise I'll be building my own. I've already put off building the new machine for almost a month pending Dell's offering. I can wait another week or so. |
| dinotrac May 20, 2007 6:40 PM EDT |
NoDough - What you said. No kidding. |
| bigg May 20, 2007 7:03 PM EDT |
> Give 'em a break and at least wait till they tell us what's included. Which is why I said in my first post "I'll wait and see, because this is exactly what Dell said they wouldn't do." and then in my second post "I'll wait for the official announcement before drawing any conclusions. I can't imagine that there's not more than we have seen thus far." |
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