A thought
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| jezuch May 17, 2007 4:02 AM EDT |
Quoting:Surely Microsoft could claim that the *BSDs infringe on similar patents if not the same ones. Could this be a possible line of defense? "Windows has this. Linux has this. BSDs have this. MacOS has this. Amiga had this. See, you honor, this is common knowledge! You can't patent common knowledge!" |
| bigg May 17, 2007 4:41 AM EDT |
If I'm reading your argument correctly, you are referring to prior art, which is one way to get a patent invalidated. Or possibly you mean it is obvious, which is another way to get a patent invalidated. If Microsoft innovated (hypothetically) and everyone copied them, that would not be a defense. |
| jdixon May 17, 2007 5:27 AM EDT |
> If Microsoft innovated (hypothetically) and everyone copied them, that would not be a defense. I'm not certain that's true. I believe the owner of a patent, like a trademark or copyright, has a duty to defend it. If Microsoft knew others were violating their patents, but only chose to come after Linux, and this could be shown in court, it might invalidate their claims. |
| number6x May 17, 2007 5:54 AM EDT |
Who does Microsoft see as its #1 enemy these days? Linux or Google? Could the FUD about patents be a strike at Google as much as a strike at Linux? Microsoft will probably not go after small Linux users if they can 'tax' the large users like Google. Could it be good enough for Microsoft to just hurt Google's market cap by raising doubts about patent infringement in Linux? Maybe the customer they are going after is the corporate customer. |
| Abe May 17, 2007 7:44 AM EDT |
Quoting:Could it be good enough for Microsoft to just hurt Google's market cap by raising doubts about patent infringement in Linux? I don't believe so because Google doesn't sell Linux based applications, they just sell services using Linux. |
| number6x May 17, 2007 8:33 AM EDT |
Abe, I think you're right. But Google does provide services/apps that compete with MS Office. Getting Google directly might be hard, but undermining Google by undermining Linux might work around the anti-trust problems MS has. Microsoft, if accused of using its monopoly power to stifle a competitor would say something like "We can't help it if our competitors choose to use the evil, IP infringing Linux to base their competing products on! We're the ones being hurt here, we're not using our monopoly power to hurt Google. Google chose to infringe our precious IP". What IP and how it is being infringed don't matter, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. I just think that the lawyers at MS thought they saw a way to hit a double along the right field line with this play. As long as they don't get specific, they will keep spreading the FUD. We just have to keep asking for specifics, and saying that talk is cheap and Microsoft is unable to compete, and so on. |
| Abe May 17, 2007 9:19 AM EDT |
Quoting:Getting Google directly might be hard, but undermining Google by undermining Linux might work around the anti-trust problems MS has. Good point and I wish MS goes after Google directly instead. Google is probably the only company with guts and financial resource to stand to MS. I think if, by any slim chance, MS could hurt Linux, Google is not going to stand still. They most probably will help FSF to take MS to court. Google has too much investment in Linux. Acutally, Google wouldn't be where they are now or will be in the future without Linux. I would even go to the extent of saying that MS is holding off suing FOSS/Linux mainly because they are sure that Google will step in if they do. I also believe that IBM didn't have their own distro yet because they are waiting to see what is going to happen after SCO is gone and out. IBM will help FSF to sue MS and put an end to their FUD also because of what they have invested and planning to invest in Linux. If MS could hurt Linux, IBM hardware (especially mainframe) business will in big trouble. I believe IBM has great plans of utilizing Linux in their advanced processor business. We haven't seen much of it yet but will. I personally not concerned about all this FUD from MS, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take care of ourselves on our own. One never know, in the business sector, what happens today, might get wiped out during the night. |
| helios May 17, 2007 10:13 AM EDT |
Who does Microsoft see as its #1 enemy these days? Linux or Google? You're missing the obvious. Google's road to riches was paved by Linux code/servers/developers. What is going to happen to Google should Microsoft achieve a victory in this suit? How many Linux servers are humming in unison to bring Google services to billions right now? With the fall of one gavel, Google could come to a standstill. Their business is built on the back of Linux. h |
| number6x May 17, 2007 10:32 AM EDT |
helios, Thats pretty much the reason I was asking. To MS, Google is taking profit that 'belongs' to MS. How dare they! Google is offering services that compete with one of MS's cash cows. Google doesn't even crow from the top of mountains about every new development and service. They just kind of let them out there. And Google is making money. Dot-coms are supposed to be dead, not profitable and growing. Google also uses LInux. They show that you don't need MS in order to be a success! As a matter of fact, they show that you can be more profitable without MS than with MS! The boardrooms of America have not figured this one out yet. The light bulb has not turned on yet. But sooner or later a lot of companies are going to have to ask why they need MS. By then Bill and Steve are hoping that the answer will be: "Because all of our Documents are belong to MS!" If they go directly after Google, there's all of that nasty anti-trust stuff to deal with. By hitting Linux they hit Google, without aiming for Google. Its the way they are going about this that started me thinking about Google. If they try to shut down competitors, they have to deal with anti-trust laws. So they are not trying to shut down competitors, they are 'building bridges', and offering 'covenants', and allowing competition. Allowing it if you admit you infringe on my precious! Oh and the Novell thing runs out in 5 years. Is that when they'll start asking for money to extend it? |
| rijelkentaurus May 17, 2007 11:57 AM EDT |
Quoting: Google is probably the only company with guts and financial resource to stand to MS. Guts, maybe, but there are others with the $$ to take a hunk out of MS if they needed (or chose) to, including IBM, Oracle and even Sun or Red Hat. Microsoft has made a lot of enemies. I think of it in boxing terms: You'd expect a heavyweight to clobber a light middleweight, just based on size and strength. What if it was Wladimir Klitschko against Oscar de la Hoya? Klitschko might win, but I'd bet money that he'd know he was in a fight. MS might have a lot of money over most companies, but many of the ones MS would pick on would have enough to make it a good fight, and after two or three opponents MS might find itself wore down and broke, especially if the stock price tumbles. Google is an interesting threat to MS. People don't see them being a great threat in the enterprise until and unless they offer their office apps for use on an organization's internal web servers. Who wants their information stored with Google? It's quite possible that Google will come through with something (maybe a server appliance sold by Sun or Dell?), but even having the services offered only on the web makes them a threat to a particular segment of the populous, namely poor people. By poor people I mean, 1) poor people...those folks without a lot of money, 2) poor people...those folks in countries where the median income isn't enough to afford crappy MS software, 3) poor people...the poorest of the poor, students and teachers. I don't know why any student wouldn't just use Google's online stuff and just do away with Office software on the PC. That way you can work on papers, etc, wherever you're at without worrying about licensing, etc. And surely a university could open an account to host both student email and documents. Use an internal email server for your staff, use Google for the kids. And I'd even say use Google apps for the teachers in regards to homework assignments and anything else they need to share with their students. If Google raises children and young adults on Google, they will want Google as they grow older. If Google can displace some of MS's core business, MS's warchest shrinks and Google's grows. That makes Google the biggest threat going for MS. So I guess I'm saying that Google should target all sorts of schools, colleges and universities, and battle MS for the supremacy of brand loyalty. Or something like that. :) |
| Abe May 17, 2007 12:49 PM EDT |
Quoting: but there are others with the $$ to take a hunk out of MS if they needed (or chose) to, including IBM, Oracle and even Sun or Red HatThat is why I specifically said Guts & Money. Many companies have the money but they consider it as waste of funds to fight MS, no matter what the reasons are. Google is competing with MS indirectly by offering services available via their own created tools and applications based on existing Linux/FOSS. Quoting:So I guess I'm saying that Google should target all sorts of schools, colleges and universities, and battle MS for the supremacy of brand loyalty. Or something like that.They are doing just that already. Google is so popular their name became an Internet verb. You ask any kid to do search on the Internet, they respond "You mean google". It wont be long before most will be using everything Google has to offer. Poor people using Google instead MS software? They don't have to, they have Linux for free and under their control and already can replace almost every MS software available. It is a matter of time when third party apps are made available on Linux. Google will be offering IT services made available on the enterprise Intranets. That is where Google is going to kill MS. Any way we look at it, MS is doomed. |
| rijelkentaurus May 17, 2007 1:32 PM EDT |
Quoting: They don't have to, they have Linux for free But if they use Google, they only need a web browser to work off of. They can use Damn Small Linux from a live cd and not need anything or anybody, and never worry about an update breaking anything. They can also continue using their laptop with Windows installed and not learn anything new. Oh, I would recommend Linux to them and the apps on Linux, to be sure, but using Google Apps is so easy I suspect more and more people will start. I already know several non-poor businessman who use Google for their email and their apps because they can have it anywhere in the world from any PC. The convenience is going to win a lot of people over. Quoting: It is a matter of time when third party apps are made available on Linux. Or, when all of the Free alternatives on Linux are at least as good as the proprietary apps. Most, in fact, are up to speed as far as normal users go, and many are gaining in popularity among "power" users. Sometimes they just have a higher learning curve and need for expertise to operate correctly. One of the crown jewels in the Free Software landscape is Blender3D...but it takes a lot of practice to learn it. But because it's Free and free, it's stealing younger people as they learn 3D, so the learning curve isn't hampered by the need to first "unlearn" a proprietary app. That's a substantial threat to proprietary companies. Quoting: Google will be offering IT services made available on the enterprise Intranets. That is where Google is going to kill MS. Yup. Agreed. Imagine how easy Google could make document management...create it, store it, search it, all on your LAN and your equipment. There are several companies out there that probably shiver thinking about it. (Worldox, anyone?) |
| Sander_Marechal May 18, 2007 2:44 PM EDT |
Quoting:Google will be offering IT services made available on the enterprise Intranets. Will be? Already are! Get your 1U google rackserver indexer at http://www.google.com/enterprise/mini/#utm_medium=et&utm_sou... starting at $1995 |
| Abe May 18, 2007 3:48 PM EDT |
Quoting:Will be? Already are! They sure work fast like their search engine don't they? I looked at it and the cost depends on number of docs but reasonable. It sure looks like Share Point is going to have a touch competitor. Pretty soon they will have e-mail, Office apps. etc etc... |
| dcparris May 18, 2007 4:56 PM EDT |
Yeah, we got Google Desktop last year. I don't know who actually uses it anymore though. It seems more like a nifty fad, kind of like the search engine toolbars were a while back. |
| dinotrac May 18, 2007 8:54 PM EDT |
>Any way we look at it, MS is doomed. Wishful thinking, unless you mean MS as the big scary bully is doomed. |
| Abe May 19, 2007 8:53 AM EDT |
Quoting:unless you mean MS as the big scary bully is doomed. Actually Dino what I meant is MS as a software company is doomed. MS can't stand not being on top and domineering. Most everyone, in one way or another, helped create the MS monster. Because of its history, now everyone wants to bring them down. It might take sometime, but it will be brought down. It is a simple law of nature. |
| dinotrac May 19, 2007 9:21 AM EDT |
>MS can't stand not being on top and domineering. Sigh. MS is not your sister's brat kid. Once upon a time, the same sentiment could be expressed about IBM. They've adjusted. Microsoft will adjust. >It is a simple law of nature. We like to use a lot of metaphors when discussing business, but, in the end, business is not war, it's not marriage, and it's not nature. It's just business. |
| Abe May 19, 2007 9:55 AM EDT |
Quoting:the same sentiment could be expressed about IBM. IBM didn't come close to what MS is. IBM didn't try to kill Digital, CDC, Univac (Unisys) etc... They just interoperated but competed very hard. IBM used the technology of others and made their technology available to others, MS steals technology from others to destroy them. IBM dominated the market with their own technology created with their own research and development. They still do and didn't stop others from building their own (Digital & MS are perfect examples) Quoting:business is not war, it's not marriage, and it's not nature. I humbly disagree. MS made war out of business, they fight other companies as if it is a war. In one form or another, business existed since day one. Business is a natural social behavior, You are right though, MS doesn't marry, they just buy their brides flat out. |
| dinotrac May 19, 2007 10:33 AM EDT |
>IBM didn't come close to what MS is. Excuse me? Maybe not on Bizarro world, but certainly here on earth. Worse, because they controlled hardware AND software. They were sued by the Justice Department, not once, but twice, for antitrust violations. |
| dinotrac May 19, 2007 10:38 AM EDT |
>I humbly disagree. MS made war out of business, they fight other companies as if it is a war. Or, the fought each other as if going for NBA championship, or winning Survivor, or whatever. They ain't remotely nice, but, last I looked, they weren't using M-16s, Abrams tanks, or F-18s. War kills and maims and uses real blood. Business hardball can shatter lives, but, as a rule, it doesn't take them. |
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