Great enthusiasm, misplaced energy.
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| notamonopoly May 08, 2007 9:11 AM EDT |
It's always great to hear that someone wants to promote open source but I think that: 1) The open source community needs to be more organized. 2) This Starks fellow needs to realize that this is HIS campaign not OURS, despite what he thinks. Problems: A) Nascar isn't as big as he is making it seem. How many people do you know that enjoy watching cars run around in circles? I personally have never met one in my life. Nascar targets a very specific group of people, as does this campaign. To spend over a quarter of a million dollars on this would be a waste. B) Nascar is saturated with advertising. It's on their cars, speedway, drivers clothes, etc. Who is going to notice one more advertisement mixed in? If you insist on advertising choose a venue that has little or no advertising so that people notice it. Or better yet, sponsor something meaningful that reflects our community. I've always wanted to see a Linux company contribute to a zoo. Tux the penguin, get it? C) People won't generally give money to some guy just because he asks for it, especially when he does not represent a particular project. We need to feel confident that the money will be spent properly, not used to make house payments. My solution? Let corporations pay to advertise their own particular brands. For the rest of us we keep doing what we're doing, spreading open source by example. What has more of an impact, showing someone a Linux logo, or showing them how to use the program the logo represents? |
| SFN May 08, 2007 9:17 AM EDT |
Although I disagree with some of your points, I agree with others. You make them all well and these are all points that should be open for discussion. Unfortunately, you are about to get blasted by a number of people for daring to suggest what you have. I'm sorry. |
| NoDough May 08, 2007 9:24 AM EDT |
Quoting:1) The open source community needs to be more organized.Why? To achieve what, exactly? Quoting:2) This Starks fellow needs to realize that this is HIS campaign not OURS, despite what he thinks.I support this campaign and I like to think I have some part in it. If you don't, that's fine. Just like you don't want Ken's opinion thrust upon you, I don't want yours thrust upon me. Quoting:A) Nascar ...Ummm, it's THE Indianapolis 500, not NASCAR. Quoting:My solution? Let ...Ah, but if you are going to LET someone else do something, then it's not really YOUR solution. Is it? Quoting:What has more of an impact, showing someone a Linux logo, or showing them how to use the program the logo represents?Making Linux a household name will have the greater effect. This has been a staple of marketing for decades. Edit: Added missing quote. |
| notamonopoly May 08, 2007 9:43 AM EDT |
“Why? To achieve what, exactly?” By organizing I simply meant that there should be a more efficient way to achieve these goals then saying, "give me money so I can slap a sticker on a race car." “I support this campaign and I like to think I have some part in it. If you don't, that's fine. Just like you don't want Ken's opinion thrust upon you, I don't want yours thrust upon me.” If you feel that you are a part of Ken's campaign, then that's fair. I'm questioning what the logic is in supporting this particular campaign. You did not address my point that this sport is already saturated by advertising and will not have an impact. “Ummm, it's THE Indianapolis 500, not NASCAR.” Well I admit my ignorance, I have no idea what the difference between NASCAR and the Indianapolis 500 is, because it is of no interest to me. Thanks for pointing that out though, otherwise I'm sure no one would have any idea what I was talking about. “Ah, but if you are going to LET someone else do something, then it's not really YOUR solution. Is it?” I don't understand, I'm making a suggestion. “Making Linux a household name will have the greater effect. This has been a staple of marketing for decades.” Windows is not a household name because of advertising, it's from being pre-installed on EVERY computer. Many people have no idea what their operating system is even called. Show someone a free system that is not plagued by viruses and they will gladly use it without knowing it's name. |
| jdixon May 08, 2007 9:51 AM EDT |
> I have no idea what the difference between NASCAR and the Indianapolis 500 is, I'd recommend you take the time to learn. There's a big difference between the advertising for the Indy 500 and NASCAR, which is one of the reasons they chose the Indy 500. |
| cjcox May 08, 2007 9:56 AM EDT |
Regardless... NASCAR/Indy (realizing that Indy has more worldwide watchers)... the fact remains that advertising wise, the ads that are seen are ONLY on the front runner's cars.... OR... the car in the accident. So... Linux is seen if we are winning the race or if were exploding in a gigantic fireball! Just something to keep in mind. It is possible that the grassroots efforts could be a notable news item... and the car and logo might get some coverage that way as well. But in general, unless one of the conditions above is met, you might not see Tux at all on the race track (even if we get the full body decal). |
| NoDough May 08, 2007 10:03 AM EDT |
Quoting:By organizing I simply meant that there should be a more efficient way to achieve these goals then saying, "give me money so I can slap a sticker on a race car."I would agree with that. Quoting:You did not address my point that this sport is already saturated by advertising and will not have an impact.You are correct. The sport is saturated by advertising. It may be pertinent to ask oneself why. Quoting:I don't understand, I'm making a suggestion.There have been countless people criticizing Ken's efforts and offering no viable alternatives. You criticized Ken's work, but the alternative you offered, and even claimed ownership of, was "Let corporations..." I'm not interested in what we can let others do. I'm interested in what WE can do. Quoting:Windows is not a household name because of advertising, it's from being pre-installed on EVERY computer. Many people have no idea what their operating system is even called. Show someone a free system that is not plagued by viruses and they will gladly use it without knowing it's name.Helping someone switch to Linux is an honorable goal. However, it has limited outreach. What if we also sought to have Linux pre-installed on EVERY computer? Big goal? Sure. But, inch by inch anything's a cinch. So, what are the secondary goals that will lead us to the primary goal? How about making Linux better known in the mainstream? Great! How do we do that? Well, we could put the Linux name and logo on a televised event that is watched by millions worldwide, and then... My point is, your way of spreading Linux is not wrong, and Ken's way of spreading Linux is not wrong. The two can coexist and compliment one another... if we allow them to. |
| tuxchick May 08, 2007 10:07 AM EDT |
Put up or shut up. Start your own campaign. We already have a huge surplus of armchair critics who refuse to lift a finger other than to criticize what other people are doing. Utterly useless. |
| notamonopoly May 08, 2007 10:34 AM EDT |
"Put up or shut up. Start your own campaign. We already have a huge surplus of armchair critics who refuse to lift a finger other than to criticize what other people are doing. Utterly useless." Not exactly constructive criticism. I do my part. I run two businesses, both use open source software. I promote open source to every client, co-worker, family member and friend. What more can I do? I don't have the time to organize a campaign so I would gladly contribute to something that I felt was worth it. Have you stopped to question why there are so many "armchair critics" of this campaign? Maybe there is a good reason. Calling someone utterly useless is not the least bit helpful. I'm pointing out the flaws of this plan and suggesting that more people take the time to promote it themselves. As for 'NoDough', I appreciate your comments about making suggestions. Point noted. |
| tuxchick May 08, 2007 10:56 AM EDT |
Good. Continue to do your part. I suggest staying out of the way of other people who are also doing what they can. There are a lot of critics simply because the world is overfull of do-nothing complainers. The armchair critics of the Tux500 have not come up with one single actual action or anything helpful- just empty whining. Useless and unhelpful. |
| bigg May 08, 2007 11:28 AM EDT |
> Have you stopped to question why there are so many "armchair critics" of this campaign? Maybe there is a good reason. Because we're talking about human beings. > What more can I do? I suggest that you are doing too much. You are promoting Linux plus criticizing his efforts to promote Linux. Would I promote Linux in that way? No. Did I contribute money? Yes, a little bit, because I think it's a good idea, and it's, like, absolutely the only marketing of Linux right now. Ken Starks has a monopoly on Linux marketing. I think NoDough makes some good points above. Microsoft dedicated half a billion (yes, the one with a "b") to marketing Vista and Office. $350,000 seems like a drop in the bucket compared to that, but $0 is even less of a drop in the bucket. |
| cjcox May 08, 2007 11:37 AM EDT |
Just fyi, I actually worked for a company that put their logo on the side of a race car for a race. We chose the only female racer in the field (again, another unique element for extra coverage regardless of how well she did). She ended up getting in an accident. Linux is pretty well known in the markets where Linux sales are going to come from. The race car thing merely gets brand awareness into the other markets... which might bump thing around indirectly by a percentage point (MAYBE). But... we didn't race in Indy... maybe there's more than merely watching the race that is going on (things that people don't discuss openly). ?? |
| vainrveenr May 08, 2007 12:07 PM EDT |
@cjcox Quoting:It is possible that the grassroots efforts could be a notable news item... and the car and logo might get some coverage that way as well. But in general, unless one of the conditions above is met, you might not see Tux at all on the race track (even if we get the full body decal). Quoting:maybe there's more than merely watching the race that is going on (things that people don't discuss openly). ??Are these supposed to be middle-of-the-road/racetrack responses or those of someone maybe a little anti-Tux500?? As an FYI, someone else seemingly more middle-of-the-road already estimated on another LXer thread that the Tux500 campaign total could only reach $20K out the desired $350K goal (i.e., barely above 5 percent of the original fundraising goall!!) For others who may be at least a little anti-Tux500, could this then be a self-fulfilling prophecy of "unless one of the conditions above is met, you might not see Tux at all" ?? |
| tracyanne May 08, 2007 12:59 PM EDT |
Quoting:I'm pointing out the flaws of this plan and suggesting that more people take the time to promote it themselves. Perhaps you would like to provide solutions to those flaws, rather than simply sitting there pointing out those flaws. You claim to run a business or two, ask yourself, what do you prefer to hear from your employees,.. Problems or Solutions? |
| Scott_Ruecker May 08, 2007 3:48 PM EDT |
Why is it that every time someone comes up with an idea for this community all of a sudden, "Its their campaign not ours"? It is because it wasn't your idea? I think so.. Why? BECAUSE NOT ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT HAVE ANY IDEAS OF THEIR OWN!!!! I'll bet that if you started a campaign similar in scope to this one that it would all of a sudden it would become "your" campaign, not the community's. Wanna bet? I got $20 that says I am right. Prove me wrong, please. Please! If all the curmudgeons spent their energy on an idea of their own we wouldn't have to worry about Microsoft and their Billion dollar advertising campaigns would we? |
| kozmcrae May 08, 2007 5:03 PM EDT |
To notamonopoly. I paid for my right to comment on this subject, have you? |
| notamonopoly May 08, 2007 5:58 PM EDT |
"To notamonopoly. I paid for my right to comment on this subject, have you?" I don't know where you live, but in my country people do not have to pay to have an opinion. Besides, why would I pay for something I think is a poor idea? It's funny that I keep getting slammed for having an opinion but the whole point of this thread was to point out the problems I see with the campaign. No one has denied that the problems exist, they just keep freaking out that someone has pointed them out. You dare me to create my own campaign, fine. I'm officially starting a campaign to raise over a quarter of a million dollars to put a Linux logo on the side of my car. I will be advertising to everyone as I travel. It will make more of an impact than the Indy car because it will actually stand out in a crowd instead of blending in with every other ad covered vehicle going 200 mph. Also, it will be advertised all year round instead of a single race. So, how about that? In all seriousness, I do have an idea for a campaign that would be meaningful. We should do something to counter these endless "Get the facts" ads all over the web. Scroll to the top of this page. What do you see? "Ads by Google" that link to Microsoft, who is eager to lie about their products being better. You and I choose to ignore it because we know that it's untrue, but what does that do to a person that does not know any better? On just about every Linux site I go to I see this same ad being shown. So how about someone put together a massive online campaign that would balance the scales? Again, I have absolutely no time to do such a thing, but for those who keep demanding suggestions, there's one that I would contribute to if it was properly organized. The open source community is the best community on earth, despite disagreements on how we should promote the products we love so much. Our end goal is the same regardless of how we achieve it so I wish this campaign and any future ones all the best. Microsoft Sucks, nuff said. |
| jdixon May 08, 2007 6:37 PM EDT |
> Scroll to the top of this page. What do you see? "Ads by Google" that link to Microsoft... If so, bring them to the attention of the editors. They're not supposed to be there. |
| jdixon May 08, 2007 6:43 PM EDT |
> I'm officially starting a campaign to raise over a quarter of a million dollars to put a Linux logo on the side of my car. I will be advertising to everyone as I travel. It will make more of an impact than the Indy car because it will actually stand out in a crowd instead of blending in with every other ad covered vehicle going 200 mph. Also, it will be advertised all year round instead of a single race. So, how about that? Sounds good, but why do you need $250K to do so. That's what it costs to get advertising in Indy. You could do what you want for the cost of a paint job, at most a couple of thousand dollars. A magnetic Tux logo for each side of the car could probably be run off on a good inkjet printer (they used to sell the magnetic sheets at Walmart, I don't know if they still do or not). If you think it's a good idea, why not do so. |
| SFN May 08, 2007 7:19 PM EDT |
See? |
| bigg May 08, 2007 7:29 PM EDT |
> I'm officially starting a campaign to raise over a quarter of a million dollars to put a Linux logo on the side of my car. That's not a bad idea, though a quarter of a million dollars could be used to paint an entire fleet of cars with the Debian logo, driven around in the downtown of America's largest cities. Now you need to start organizing your project. I'll donate $3. As I had hoped, Tux500 is getting the good ideas flowing and the marketing projects started. |
| tracyanne May 08, 2007 7:53 PM EDT |
Quoting:It's funny that I keep getting slammed for having an opinion but the whole point of this thread was to point out the problems I see with the campaign. No one has denied that the problems exist, they just keep freaking out that someone has pointed them out. Once again, and with feeling. How about providing solutions to those problem, instead of simply pointing them out. It's damned easy to point out problems real or not, but it's a damn site harder to provide solutions. |
| dcparris May 09, 2007 12:43 AM EDT |
As a Tux500 auditor I'm not supposed to comment on Tux500 - and I'm not. I will comment on this discussion though. Nothing I say here should be construed as a defense or criticism or promotion of the Tux500 campaign. notamonopoly: What people are saying - and pretty much have from the first response - is that, if you disagree with what the Tux500 folks are trying to accomplish, fine. But, you can accomplish far more by launching your own campaign - even if its simply placing door knockers at every house in your neighborhood, than by criticising an honest effort. You can even decline to donate while applauding the effort, and position your own campaign - I like that zoo idea - as a different campaign. You could even form an alliance with these guys to offer mutual support (sharing contacts and so on). Heck, maybe all of you form the Linux Marketing Project, launching various marketing initiatives. Just *do* *something*. That is the point every one of your critics has been trying to make throughout this thread. Who knows, you may just garned more support than the Tux500 team. But you won't garner anything but arguments if all you're doing is arguing over how dumb the Tux500 idea is. Mind you, some will feel that idea won't reach enough people. They'll criticize the zoo you choose, right down to the penguin. Then they'll criticize the penguin's keeper, claiming that some other zoo has a much better penguin keeper. Oh yeah, and why a penguin to begin with? Why not a wildebeest? Oh yeah, don't forget how zoos pollute the environment. And then some bozo will come along and claim your campaign is a scam, and that you're really a martian, the result of Elvis' last trip - complete with evidence worthy of the National Inquirer. In short, whatever you try to do, someone is going to criticize your idea. Even so, if you just act on your vision and stick to your guns, you'll make progress. Cheers, Don |
| Scott_Ruecker May 09, 2007 6:18 AM EDT |
notamonopoly: That is a great idea and I am glad to support it! Start a separate thread about it when you get started! I think I owe you 20 bucks. :-) Scott |
| tuxchick May 09, 2007 6:49 AM EDT |
Huzzah tracyanne! What you said. |
| helios May 09, 2007 7:43 AM EDT |
Actually, with some variations on this theme by this community, he may actually have hit on something...let me get this race car idea working and I will talk with him about it. No, really...with some work... and if it's ok...I just popped twenty into the tux500 kitty to cover your sins Scotty...then again, he might really WANT his twenty bucks, LOL h |
| kozmcrae May 09, 2007 10:54 AM EDT |
To dcparris: Who told you about the martian? |
| jimf May 09, 2007 12:04 PM EDT |
> Who told you about the martian? It's ok... Don has a security clearance. |
| dinotrac May 09, 2007 12:43 PM EDT |
>It's ok... Don has a security clearance. C;mon now, we've all seen his legs. That should be an insecurity clearance. |
| tuxchick May 09, 2007 1:13 PM EDT |
Dino, dino, how many times must you be reminded of proper LXer decorum. They're limbs, not l**s. |
| jimf May 09, 2007 1:31 PM EDT |
I thought the security breach was the pig.... |
| dcparris May 09, 2007 2:19 PM EDT |
Dino: Catherine Bach's called in person to suggest I insure my legs with Lloyd's. I think I will. Kozmcrae: I know all about the martian. I'm a news guy. Knowing things is what I do. |
| ottawalonndon May 09, 2007 5:19 PM EDT |
DCParris: Simply capitol suggestions, chap! > As a Tux500 auditor I'm not supposed to comment on Tux500 - and I'm not. Righto. Of course not. |
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