Summary: Ubuntu doesn't include proprietary stuff
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| dwheeler May 02, 2007 8:57 AM EDT |
The reviewer basically complains that Ubuntu doesn't include proprietary stuff. Three of the four complaints were: (1) Adobe's proprietary Flash wasn't installed by default, (2) the Nvidia proprietary drivers weren't installed by default, (3) DVDs won't play (since DVDs require proprietary keycodes, illegal to release as open source software in some countries). The fourth complaint was that "the Windows Migration Tool did not detect my Windows Vista installation and account settings." Since Vista isn't common at this time, this seems premature; most migrations from Windows would be using XP, not Vista, and the reviewer didn't actually care about this. Are these issues for many users? You bet. But they won't be solved by a trivial patch. The first two involve secret-keeping, and the third one (codecs) involves legal issues (the code to do this exists now!). |
| techiem2 May 02, 2007 9:12 AM EDT |
You know what's really funny about the dvd issue? Years ago (apparently around 2000 from what I find on the site) Intervideo wrote lindvd. Apparently it was basically a linux version of windvd. BUT, they only offered it embedded for DVD players and such. Their overview page is http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/LinDVD.jsp Really makes you wonder why they didn't release a normal linux version of it. Especially since I seem to recall there was decent demand for it at the time. How many legal-in-the-US ways are there to watch dvds directly on linux? 1 or 2? It just seems like a ripe market if someone would make something legal, good, and reasonably priced. (Of course they would need a trial version so you could make sure it works on your particular box) Of course, I could totally wrong and maybe nobody would buy it anyway.... Personally, I'm currently just using a dvd player hooked up to my tv tuner. :) |
| azerthoth May 02, 2007 9:50 AM EDT |
He actually has a point. There is nothing in the EULA for the nvidia drivers that says they cant be included. In actuallity it is expressly permitted in their EULA for linux distributions. I would also like to point out that both flash and decss could be included in the installation with one additional step and two check boxes. A screen that asks if you want to install flash with a little checkbox next to it, and a check box for decss with a caveat saying that it is required for some DVD playback but is not legal to do so in all countries. Hmm, I think I added all of 10 seconds to the install process there. I'm sorry to say also to the purists out there, there is no provision in the GPL that prevents distributors from including proprietary flotsam with their distribution. |
| bigg May 02, 2007 9:56 AM EDT |
> there is no provision in the GPL that prevents distributors from including proprietary flotsam with their distribution And the next version of Ubuntu will have proprietary drivers enabled by default. If you're a purist then you probably need a different distribution. As for Flash, this is a non-issue. You start Firefox, go to a site needing Flash, and it will ask if you want to install. Exactly the same as with a new Windows machine (I know, I just did it. The only difference was that it didn't work on Vista but it did on Feisty, on the same machine.) |
| Teron May 02, 2007 11:14 AM EDT |
"And the next version of Ubuntu will have proprietary drivers enabled by default. If you're a purist then you probably need a different distribution." And, IIRC, they're making gNewSense a part of the Ubuntu distro family for the next batch, too. ^^ |
| Egon_Spengler May 02, 2007 11:33 AM EDT |
"And, IIRC, they're making gNewSense a part of the Ubuntu distro family for the next batch, too." Wrong answer. gNewSense welcomes any changes made upstream to facilitate the removal of proprietary, non-free bits, but is NOT going to be part of the Ubuntu family. They will work WITH the Ubuntoids, but will not BE Ubuntoids. |
| softwarejanitor May 02, 2007 11:34 AM EDT |
I'm running Ubuntu 6.10 on a new laptop and I ran into some of the same things he did... however it was such a no-brainer to get the nVidia, Flash, and DVD stuff working I don't think his complaints are very valid. A few minutes of googling was all it took for me to find the answers. Certainly on a level playing field, for example when Ubuntu comes pre-loaded on Dell's computers, those things probably won't be an issue. And from my experience with installing or upgrading Windows, its far from without its problems. If most Windows users had to install from a shrink wrap box on a bare machine or a machine with Linux already installed, they would probably run into as many if not more issues. |
| bigg May 02, 2007 11:43 AM EDT |
> when Ubuntu comes pre-loaded on Dell's computers, those things probably won't be an issue I assume that DVD's will still not play, due to licensing issues. I'm sure the video cards will be properly configured. CNR will be available soon to take care of all of this, including playing DVD's, and will be very easy to use. |
| bigg May 02, 2007 11:48 AM EDT |
> they're making gNewSense a part of the Ubuntu distro family for the next batch, too. Here's the actual announcement: "The Glossy Gnu will nonetheless play a role in this next release, because Ubuntu 7.10 will feature a new flavour - as yet unnamed - which takes an ultra-orthodox view of licensing: no firmware, drivers, imagery, sounds, applications, or other content which do not include full source materials and come with full rights of modification, remixing and redistribution. There should be no more conservative home, for those who demand a super-strict interpretation of the "free" in free software. This work will be done in collaboration with the folks behind Gnewsense." |
| softwarejanitor May 02, 2007 1:50 PM EDT |
>> when Ubuntu comes pre-loaded on Dell's computers, those
>> things probably won't be an issue
>
>I assume that DVD's will still not play, due to licensing issues.
> I'm sure the video cards will be properly configured. CNR will
> be available soon to take care of all of this, including playing
> DVD's, and will be very easy to use. Dell could very easily pay Canoniacal to develop or license the libraries necessary to play DVDs and MP3s and it would not add much to the cost. It is my understanding that at least one other Linux distro already does (Linspire perhaps, I don't remember for sure). Hardware vendors often include extra software like that, for example even the very cheap DVD+/-RW drives usually include burning software like Nero. |
| d0nk3y May 02, 2007 3:10 PM EDT |
The funny thing with the whole DVD, Nvidia and flash argument against *any* linux distro, I think, is - does an out of the box Windows install do any of those either? * Flash installed - nope * Can play DVD's - nope * Nvidia proprietary drivers installed - nope But lets kick linux for not doing it eh? ;-) |
| jimf May 02, 2007 3:24 PM EDT |
> But lets kick linux for not doing it eh? ;-) I agree d0nk3y, we see this as a red herring criticism time and time again. They may come preinstalled if you buy the whole damned computer, but, never if you install Windows your self. The problem here is 'should Dell preload all of that, as they do for Windows?'. |
| cjcox May 02, 2007 3:34 PM EDT |
It took me all of a few minutes to enable DVDs in Kubuntu (so.. .ditto for Ubuntu). It's just not that hard. However, it is probably more difficult than what most are used to (e.g. Windows users who buy new machines with all of the DVD stuff already there for them). I think with all of what happened with the HD-DVD key (at digg, etc.) maybe it's time for a mass revolution of decss everywhere. :) With that said, the "commercial" distros (Red Hat, SUSE and now, Ubuntu), fear the legal hammer of insanity behind the DMCA. Buy a Linux system from me and I'll make sure everything works.... come and get me Feds!! It's time this nonsense was brought out into the light for the whole world to see. |
| jimf May 02, 2007 3:37 PM EDT |
> It's time this nonsense was brought out into the light for the whole world to see. That may be what it takes. |
| salparadise May 02, 2007 8:43 PM EDT |
I don't see what the fuss is about. Ubuntu 7.04 has a two click installation for Nvidia drivers - (go to Desktop Effects and click on it).
Whenever it comes across codecs it doesn't have it offers to go look for them and installs them for you. This criticism is valid when made against all previous versions but 7.04 has it more or less sorted. So 1 out of 10 for a crap review and minus several million for not exploring the menus. A new user can be forgiven for such ignorance, but for an online review I think we ought to expect more. |
| tuxchick May 02, 2007 8:48 PM EDT |
I hate to admit it, but so far my experiences with 7.04 are good, and I like the way they handle installing the proprietary stuff. Ubuntu is just like Debian: nice distro, totally annoying fanpersons. I started out with Red Hat, and avoided Debian for a long time because of all the crazed Debian nuts who wouldn't shut up. The answer to every single question was 'apt-get, I tell you!!!' And here we go again, the answer to every question is 'become an Ubunut!!!' |
| jimf May 02, 2007 9:49 PM EDT |
> Hey, I resemble that! > The answer to every single question was 'apt-get' Wrong! It's synaptic. > 'become an Ubunut!!!' Thanks, but I'm already a US Citizen... |
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