Wow...
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| techiem2 Apr 05, 2007 12:23 PM EDT |
What a whiner...
Waaah! It doesn't auto-start the gui!
Waah! It's not made for n00bs! Apparently he thinks the sole purpose of a livecd is for n00bs to use... |
| Steven_Rosenber Apr 05, 2007 12:54 PM EDT |
Beating up on new users -- yeah, that's the way to promote your OS! I can only write as a new user, because that's what I am. I booted my first Linux live CD in January of this year, and I've spent a great deal of time in about five different distros in the past few months. I don't claim to be an expert -- I'm just a writer. Some live CDs are meant to be run only that way, others are meant to give a taste of the distro and then provide for hard-drive installation. But live CDs do one thing, whether their makers intend it or not: They INTRODUCE people to your distribution. And like it or not, BSD is not anywhere near Linux in popularity, familiarity or ease of use. The reason I'm looking into the various flavors of BSD is to see if there's a reason to run them instead of Linux. Do they run better? Is security better? Are the apps good? I don't think Fluxbuntu is positioning itself as a distro for "nOObs," as you call them. That's fine -- there are plenty of others out there. Fluxbuntu serves a purpose. And Ubuntu is huge. Like it or not, it's popular because it's usable by "nOObs." The purpose of the review is to evaluate the live CD. If the initial experience of running the distro is not a good one, that's worth talking about. If there's a reason to boot into the shell and not the GUI, I'd like to know what it is. If FreeSBIE comes automatically configured for DHCP, then people with that kind of connection will be on the Internet with no additional work necessary. Should the CD ship with NO networking configuration, just to make people WORK FOR IT? No, they come set for DHCP because that's what most people have. I happen NOT to have that here, so configuring networking for static IP is one of the things I always need to do. And I always write about it, too. Is "the sole purpose of a live cd ... for nOObs to use," as you say? No. But it's a big part of it. A live CD is a calling card for the OS it's based on. A card saying "experts only" won't get many takers. That's all I'm saying. |
| jdixon Apr 05, 2007 12:54 PM EDT |
Well, the one time I tried Freesbie, it hung during the bootup and never brought up a display, so I've never bothered trying it again. |
| techiem2 Apr 05, 2007 1:11 PM EDT |
Quoting:Some live CDs are meant to be run only that way, others are meant to give a taste of the distro and then provide for hard-drive installation. But live CDs do one thing, whether their makers intend it or not: they INTRODUCE people to your distribution. I guess I see your point there. It would be a good idea for the distros to specify who their livecds are targeting. Many are designed as an intro to the distro, but many are designed for experienced users for expert installs/system recovery/etc. |
| Sander_Marechal Apr 05, 2007 1:24 PM EDT |
Quoting:But live CDs do one thing, whether their makers intend it or not: they INTRODUCE people to your distribution. But it doesn't say "INTRODUCE people unfamiliar with Linux/BSD to your distribution". There are lots of distro's targeting advanced users. Most of them have Live CD's too. Actually, the most people I see using Live CD's use them to test hardware compatibility, not to get familiar with the distro. Another big part are CD's that aren't even meant to be installed. E.g. partition CD's, rescue CD's, HDD shredders, vulnerability testing CD's, some router/firewalls designed to run from ROM, etcetera. Quoting:And like it or not, BSD is not anywhere near Linux in popularity, familiarity or ease of use. Wrong on all counts. BSD is very popular in the enterprise. Until recently FreeBSD ruled the LAMP stack. and OpenBSD is heavily used for routers and firewalls. The difference between BSD and Linux aren't any bigger as from any one random Linux distro to another. Especially Gentoo users should feel right at home. After all, Gentoo's portage was based on the BSD ports system. Same goes for ease of use. Not surprising really since kernel & drivers aside, both run pretty much the exact same software. There may not be a newbie friendly BSD for you yet, but that's no reason to bash BSD. |
| tracyanne Apr 05, 2007 2:53 PM EDT |
quote:: And Ubuntu is huge. Like it or not, it's popular because it's usable by "nOObs." ::quote Actually while Ubuntu might well be marketed to noobs, it's actually no easier for a boob to use and configure than say Mandriva or PCLinuxOS. |
| Steven_Rosenber Apr 05, 2007 3:09 PM EDT |
I'm not bashing BSD at all. I wanted to find out what BSD was all about, and I'm not ready to do a full install ... so I looked for the live CD. My hope is that the approach taken to development at the various BSD projects will make for a more stable, smoother running system and better user experience, i.e. less broken stuff. And the reason I think a live CD is so important is that it's the easiest way by far of sampling a distro. I don't have the stats to back it up, but my general feeling about open-source distributions is that a live CD or DVD is pretty much a must if you want large numbers of people to pick up on what you're doing. I agree -- a live CD is a great way to figure out how your hardware "fits" the distro. Way better than going through a full install. Given that there are so many distros with live CDs, it would take a lot for me to install a distro without that ability to check it out first. FreeBSD is probably the first one to get over that hurdle -- the documentation and philosophy behind the project is that good. So far from bashing BSD, I want to try it, I want to love it. But FreeSBIE just didn't wow me. |
| jimf Apr 05, 2007 3:12 PM EDT |
> Ubuntu might well be marketed to noobs I agree, the key word here is 'Marketed'. That's disturbed a lot of us from the beginning. |
| Steven_Rosenber Apr 05, 2007 3:17 PM EDT |
Like Ubuntu or hate it (I'm not so happy with the lack of root access and all that sudo stuff), but it has put Linux and open source OSes on a whole new playing field. And yes, it's all about marketing (and Mark Shuttleworth's money), but just look at the thousands of people posting in the Ubuntu forums. However they did it, it's astounding. |
| Sander_Marechal Apr 05, 2007 3:17 PM EDT |
Steven: Check out PC-BSD at http://www.pcbsd.org/ No Live CD/DVD (yet) so you may need an old machine or a small free partition to test this. It is arguably the best of the newbie BSD's. |
| dcparris Apr 05, 2007 3:18 PM EDT |
I agree with your assessment traceyanne. SUSE is fairly easy to configure as well. Many distros are easy to configure. Even Debian, which has a long history of being newbie-unfriendly, is very easy to install and configure. Most configuration issues come down to which tools your GUI environment offers. |
| jdixon Apr 05, 2007 4:09 PM EDT |
> Most configuration issues come down to which tools your GUI environment offers. Or don't offer, in the case of a certain long standing distro I could mention. :) |
| tracyanne Apr 05, 2007 6:16 PM EDT |
quote:: I agree with your assessment traceyanne. SUSE is fairly easy to configure as well. ::quote I know one fairly new Linux user (she's been experimenting with Linux for about a year) who's administering SuSE 10.2 on her computer and Mandriva 2007 on her husband's. She's got a full SuSE setup on her computer and a dual boot WinXP and Mandriva on her husbands computer (he is a pretty serious gamer). |
| tuxtom Apr 05, 2007 6:30 PM EDT |
I've certainly enjoyed bashing BSD. I like it better than tcshing the korn out of it. As far as ease of configuration goes, I think I've been at this too long to have an objective view, in that "ease of configuration" means something very different to me than it did when I was newer. I don't even blink at editing my xorg.conf these days...it used to be an arcane riddle that I avoided at all costs. I don't get upset if my resolution isn't perfect after an install anymore...it's a 20 second fix for me. I like my wireless working. It's been years since I didn' t have ethernet working with any distro. I like being root, though I have made a habit out of using sudo. I'm not sure how I feel about hiding root from new users. It seems more confusing than helpful. To be fair, all the distros have their strong points and weak points. What is best for one new user is not the best for another new user. It's almost ridiculous to argue about which one is the best, though I think it is good to point out which ones are hideous. Anything that can't have a working desktop from one CD is hideous for a new user. |
| jimf Apr 05, 2007 6:34 PM EDT |
> he is a pretty serious gamer No such thing. They're all just guys with a weird virtual toy fetish.... |
| tracyanne Apr 05, 2007 6:42 PM EDT |
quote:: They're all just guys with a weird virtual toy fetish.... ::quote I'll tell her that. |
| NoDough Apr 06, 2007 7:51 AM EDT |
>"...Ubuntu might well be marketed to noobs, it's actually no easier for a boob to use..."< Freudian slip? |
| dcparris Apr 06, 2007 1:14 PM EDT |
/me puts cup down... guffaws loudly. |
| tracyanne Apr 06, 2007 1:45 PM EDT |
Quoting: t's actually no easier for a boob to use..."< A rare malady known as "derfingerpokenproblem" |
| jimf Apr 06, 2007 1:48 PM EDT |
Ohh... I ain't touching that one :D |
| dcparris Apr 06, 2007 5:04 PM EDT |
Methinks traceyanne has a case of foot-in-mouth today. :-D |
Posting in this forum is limited to members of the group: [ForumMods, SITEADMINS, MEMBERS.]
Becoming a member of LXer is easy and free. Join Us!