Dell starts simple
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Jack_ Feb 25, 2007 1:17 PM EDT |
Dell's approach is a good one I believe, business customers can now have Dell as yet another choice when looking for business computers pre-installed with Linux. Its a simple and imo a smart way to start, as I can best guess, Dell is not making non-business equipment Linux can't run on, its that business customers are the first to make a demand for Linux that makes the investment Dell has made in the offer, pay. Dell's Windows market is larger, and it makes good business to meet that market with the latest products and an OS is included. However, though Dell does not offer the pre-installed Linux to (Home) customers, I would bet, any Dell computer desktop or laptop will run Linux, in fact I know, have someone that has Linux today on a low-cost Dell laptop. I will give this approach more time, it could be the change that with higher demand for Linux from all customers, we will all see more OEMs offer both systems side-by-side, Linux and Windows. For sales Dell writes "Dell recommends", it is to have customers not ask for older OSes; a big part of keeping a market alive is to offer fresh. |
| Aladdin_Sane Feb 25, 2007 2:32 PM EDT |
>business computers pre-installed with Linux Dell pre-installs RHEL on PowerEdge Servers, and most non-mobile Precision Workstations. Within that group, factory pre-install of SLES is available on a subset thereof. It is misleading to say "Dell pre-installs Linux," without specifying a context, because the implied and default context becomes "Desktops and Portables." As of this date, there is not one single Dell Desktop or Portable model offering "pre-installed" with any distribution of GNU/Linux. Information about Dell's Custom Factory Integration is at http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/services/depl... I've not spoken to a Sales Rep recently, but last I heard, CFI will do anything you want done in the factory, and that typically 50 systems is a minimum order to talk about the service. Installing Linux, or anything for that matter, Dell will surely do for you. But you will sign a long contract limiting the extent and scope of back-end support. Me, I wouldn't sign without having it checked over first by both my legal and technical organizations. Oh, and you get to pay Dell more money for the CFI privilege, too. (When asked, my legal and technical staff (my cat) said, "Meow" and then trampled my keyboard.) While Med/Large business like CFI, I do not think that is what you were posting about. >For sales Dell writes "Dell recommends", it is to have customers not ask for older OSes (Over on Slashdot, some might make a comment about koolaid consumption.) Michael Dell himself, in his semi-auto-biography referred to the concept as "breathing your own exhaust." The simple and obvious and blatant fact is that Dell gets paid money from the vendor for those "recommendations." See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybody_Knows |
| jdixon Feb 25, 2007 2:46 PM EDT |
> business customers can now have Dell as yet another choice when looking for business computers pre-installed with Linux. As Aladdin_Sane notes, they have been able to for a long time. In case you hadn't noticed, it's not business customers making the request. |
| Jack_ Feb 25, 2007 3:13 PM EDT |
RE: Aladdin_Sane. The "context", I was future thinking, the future does seem to be what Dell is looking at; misleading whom ?, reading it must be taken in the context of Dell's own offerings, no matter what I or another says it changes nothing for Dell's offerings that are available on the Dell website. I believe those looking for Linux on Dell are very up-on the well known facts you have mentioned, and Iam sure that they, don't need to point that out . Dell gets paid, yes, "it is to have customers not ask for older OSes; a big part of keeping a market alive is to offer fresh", I don't believe Microsoft is paying for recommending win3.1 or win95 today, what was the point about being paid ?. |
| Jack_ Feb 25, 2007 3:42 PM EDT |
RE: jdixon. "As Aladdin_Sane notes, they have been able to for a long time. In case you hadn't noticed, it's not business customers making the request." Business customers will buy support most if not all the time, and that pays when talking about Linux, what is the point to sell computers to Linux customers without a return on the investment. The keywords in what said are "approach" & "start", meaning no matter how many or who makes the request, Dell wishes imo based on the feedback it has taken in, to make sure its a success with taking steps and continue to change then make a over-night mess. |
| jdixon Feb 25, 2007 3:47 PM EDT |
> The "context", I was future thinking, the future does seem to be what Dell is looking at... Oh, then why aren't they offering anything new? This is the same story they've been peddling for years now. Of course we offer Linux. Just jump through these 3 hoops (the last one of which is burning), which you get to from this url, carefully hidden away where no one is likely to find it. > misleading whom ? Anyone who thinks they're going to offer Linux to consumers. > what was the point about being paid ?. Dell gets paid by Microsoft to recommend Microsoft OS'es on their computers. That means Vista and XP, currently. Of course, you already know this. |
| Aladdin_Sane Feb 25, 2007 7:00 PM EDT |
>Dell's approach is a good one I believe, business customers can now have Dell as yet another choice when looking for business computers pre-installed with Linux. Its a simple and imo a smart way to start Yes, "approach" and "start" are good. Here it is, the press release from the source. Please check it out, especially the date. http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/pressoff... |
| bigg Feb 25, 2007 7:31 PM EDT |
> Business customers will buy support most if not all the time, and that pays when talking about Linux, what is the point to sell computers to Linux customers without a return on the investment. Because that is what customers want. Are you claiming they lose money on a Windows PC if consumers don't buy support? |
| jdixon Feb 26, 2007 3:21 AM EDT |
> Business customers will buy support most if not all the time, and that pays when talking about Linux, what is the point to sell computers to Linux customers without a return on the investment. So why are they selling Windows machines to customers who don't "buy support"? Oh, and in case you're not paying attention, there is no option for "no support" on Dell's site. The minimum you pay for is one year. |
| Jack_ Feb 26, 2007 12:17 PM EDT |
Not to be misleading, I guess "pre-installed" Linux will become a standard offer at Dell, making "future thinking" for all Linux customers true. http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9951/53/ The only problem I have with Dell's frist Linux choice, is Novell. |
| bigg Feb 26, 2007 12:30 PM EDT |
I'm not impressed. As noted elsewhere, this is the same thing they've always done. It would take ten seconds to fix the problem. Michael Dell sends out an email saying that every PC they sell is available without an OS for a nontrivial discount. He can then come up with a way to certify that desktops and especially laptops work with Linux distributions. To say that certain corporate products will be certified to work with Linux does nothing for consumers. Perhaps we need to send them a box of Q-Tips so they can clean out their ears and hear what customers are saying. |
| swbrown Feb 27, 2007 6:27 PM EDT |
They're not even willing to have OpenOffice.org as a choice when picking the office suite on a standard consumer desktop machine. |
| Jack_ Feb 28, 2007 9:37 AM EDT |
RE: swbrown. OpenOffice can be downloaded from Sun and installed, the choice is there. Dell is not perfect, but continues trying and I give credit fot that. I have an HP notebook, one year old, and have run linux on it with no major problems, the point is here that HP said nothing about or offered Linux on a non-business notebook at the time. For people that want an OEM to offer "everything" is not much different then what Windows users want from Microsoft that has today a monopoly with fewer choices that users must accept. As an OEM, Dell even with the loss of money from Microosoft for all equipment not sold with a copy of Windows, Dell has broken a chain that is a larger step to Linux being offered as an equal, that Microsoft has had success not to allow. |
| bigg Feb 28, 2007 9:46 AM EDT |
I'm not sure why you have such an affection for Dell. > the point is here that HP said nothing about or offered Linux on a non-business notebook at the time after saying > I have an HP notebook, one year old, and have run linux on it with no major problems That's really the important thing: that Linux works. Would you rather have Dell say the right words and ship laptops with no consideration for Linux compatibility, or have HP sell laptops that work with Linux but don't say anything one way or the other? I hate to play the bad guy, but I just don't understand why you keep making the same point about how good Dell is. They aren't actually doing anything to help Linux users or Linux more generally, so why would I care about what they are saying? Do you work for Dell? I just don't get why you are trying to get us to read something into this non-announcement. |
| Jack_ Feb 28, 2007 10:01 AM EDT |
RE: bigg. No affection for Dell, why must it be "affection for Dell", is it because some hate Dell ?. You do not agree with me, fine, play the bad guy all you wish to, as if that matters. |
| dinotrac Feb 28, 2007 10:28 AM EDT |
>t would take ten seconds to fix the problem. Michael Dell sends out an email saying that every PC they sell is available without an OS for a nontrivial discount. Why do you presume there should be any discount at all? If Dell earns revenue from software publishers whose crippleware is packaged with each box, that revenue loss will offset in part or in whole any savings from not including an OS. |
| tuxchick Feb 28, 2007 10:34 AM EDT |
dino, exactly right. So Dell should just shut up about Linux and focus on selling windoze boxes. Dell is the one making all the pointless, deceitful Linux noise. |
| azerthoth Feb 28, 2007 10:47 AM EDT |
I would be more than happy with a no OS computer that was certified as Linux ready or other similar accolade. Its a fair bet that if you test RH on it and everything just works then it will also just work for a majority if the current top distro's. Laptop by preferance as I spend more time on the road than I would like. That being said though, I have a Compaq and an HP (I know I just said the same thing twice) that took whole seconds of tinkering to get fully functional with the dratted bcm43xx drivers for either Ubuntu or PCLinuxOS, and no tinker time at all for Sabayon. I understand the reasoning some would like to see linux computers sell for less than windows machines for the market advantage that it would create. I just dont realisticly see it happening that way, so I wont kick if they sell for the same price as their windoze based counterpart. Heck I might still be inclined to buy the windows machine for the same price and then cash in the M$ tax and do it myself. I'd still land with a linux machine and for slightly less than the marketed one. |
| Bob_Robertson Feb 28, 2007 10:47 AM EDT |
Agreed, TC. They are trying to have it all, and not yet realizing that by doing so they will only make enemies. |
| bigg Feb 28, 2007 11:03 AM EDT |
> Why do you presume there should be any discount at all? Well, as I said elsewhere, I am assuming that they make more in additional software sales on a Windows machine than the cost of Windows. I don't believe Michael Dell is an imbecile, and I doubt that Microsoft is giving them Windows for free, so that is the only explanation that makes sense. I was responding to the posts here and the noise elsewhere saying that Dell is planning to do something. If they want a no-Windows option, they don't need to draft a strategy, they don't need a committee, they can just say "we'll sell computers without an OS" and it's done. They just stop doing part of the process of PC assembly. This would fix the problem that others are waiting to be fixed. I'm not claiming that it would be profitable to fix the problem. But that is what some people are saying Dell will do. |
| Aladdin_Sane Feb 28, 2007 11:34 AM EDT |
Apologies in advance. In a cryptic mood at the moment. "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep one in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." |
| jdixon Mar 01, 2007 7:46 AM EDT |
Jack: > Dell is not perfect, but continues trying and I give credit fot that. You misspelled lying. Dino: > Why do you presume there should be any discount at all? From Dell's profit perspective, maybe their shouldn't be. However, from my perspective, I can download and install Linux myself. I'm not willing to pay Dell for doing so. I would be willing to pay a small surcharge to be donated to my distribution of choice, but making it the same cost as Windows is far too much. Dell's current offerings to not meet my needs as a consumer, so I don't buy from them. The question is, can Dell meet my needs and their own at the same time? > If Dell earns revenue from software publishers whose crippleware is packaged with each box, that revenue loss will offset in part or in whole any savings from not including an OS. Yes, it will. But the crippleware is not something that benefits the customer, only Dell. From my perspective, the crippleware detracts from the value of the product, making it less valuable, not more. Now, I'll admit that it's possible that a majority of their market does not share my view, but I honestly consider that unlikely. Again, including crippleware does not meet their customers' needs. This is a general purpose case, and not Linux specific, so I think Dell is probably making a serious mistake in going down this path. I'm not sure there is a simple solution from Dell's perspective. They need to maintain their profits, but they also want to keep growing, and growth in the Windows market is largely tapped out. And, as Enderle points out, they also badly need something to make Microsoft more, hmm, "attentive" to their needs. Linux meets both of the latter two needs, but it may eat into their profit margin. |
| dcparris Mar 01, 2007 1:54 PM EDT |
I do have a problem with paying the same price for a No OS box. I would be willing to pay the same price for a box with Linux pre-installed as for Windows. I honestly don't have a problem with them providing a service like that, especially if it proves more valuable than me wasting my time with the OS installation. If I can't afford their installation service, then I'll have to do it myself and buy a No OS box - from a company that doesn't keep the MS tax. |
| helios Mar 01, 2007 4:41 PM EDT |
"...and not yet realizing that by doing so they will only make enemies." Many of us who were completely comfortable on our fence perch have fallen decisively on the "enemy" side of said fence...and by the tens of thousands. My email box contained over 200 emails today by 6pm referring to this Dell Debacle. Strongly thirty percent of those emails ranged from suggesting to demanding L4L officially call for a boycott of Dell. Why? Most of us either build our own or buy from vendors who give us what we want without all the dramatics. The Linux and FOSS Pundi will rail on this issue until we grow tired of it or find some other outrage to sic a keyboard on... Unfortunately. Dell will recover from any negative impact this has upon them. That is, unless we can get some mainstream media attention. That will happen just as soon as I defrag my hard drive. h |
| dcparris Mar 01, 2007 5:11 PM EDT |
And don't forget to link all your websites to the Pre-Installed Linux Vendor DB! |
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