and a solution is?
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| purplewizard Feb 16, 2007 12:14 AM EDT |
I see the points each way. Having a driver and the source must appear to some as being better than not being able to use that hardware. To others it is just one level of giving in which will see the day of all open specifications stay further away. The solution appears to be hardware to which we have the specifications. I know that is obvious. But it ties up with an idea I have looked and failed to find the existence of so far which is to have a list of hardware known to fulfill all criteria and to work fully with Linux. Why is this different to some existing lists? All existing lists I have found are things like "here is a list of motherboards with notes on how well they are supported". I'm saying forget that, let's have a much shorter list where you don't have to search to see if the components you are looking for are on it and to what extent they work. In stead you look on the list to select from it for components that are fully tested and for such you can list merely those things for which there are specifications available. |
| bigg Feb 16, 2007 4:43 AM EDT |
> Why is this different to some existing lists? Aside from printers, all of these lists suck. They list half a dozen pieces of equipment and one user lists his experiences. You don't even get the full name in some cases. |
| purplewizard Feb 16, 2007 6:17 AM EDT |
bigg I agree they suck. That is part of my point. Something of the sort is needed and those obviously don't work. So my solution is to turn it around a little and not list anything that isn't confirmed as fully working. Trouble is once we have our things working can any of us be bothered to go back to a site and say item X works perfectly. Think I'll have to investigate the likes of the Ubunutu hardware database and see what that gathers. |
| bigg Feb 16, 2007 6:54 AM EDT |
One other thing about this. You don't necessarily have to construct a large database with all hardware. At a minimum, they could make recommendations along the lines of "system X from manufacturer Y is fully compatible with Debian Etch". As I've posted elsewhere, I've been looking for a laptop that can be run with only open drivers, and that's very difficult. You can have almost any piece of hardware you want with open drivers, just not all in one notebook. |
| jimf Feb 16, 2007 7:33 AM EDT |
> You can have almost any piece of hardware you want with open drivers, just not all in one notebook. The problem with stuff like is not that there won't eventually be open drivers for a device, but rather that the whole issue is a moving target. New driver development requires time and demand, so, the latest and greatest may not be covered for a while. That's one reason why many Linux laptop users get used rather than new laptops. I know that my Compaq Presario 1500 will work with stock Debian. I seriously doubt that Compaq's latest offering will work flawlessly... maybe not at all. The same is true for hardware databases. I've been instrumental in a couple of those. They are fatally flawed from the start. What is being recorded is the user feedback which is time sensitive, and in reality, probably won't be updated. The thing may not have worked at the time, but now has good drivers.... you'll never know. The best information comes from just asking for recommendations, in forums, on IRC. That will get you the most current user information. It's time consuming, and frustrating, but it still the way that works. |
| bigg Feb 16, 2007 7:51 AM EDT |
Jim, That is my impression. This is a significant undertaking that is difficult for the community to do - they can't possibly purchase and test all new hardware. This is something that should be done by an organization with significant resources. Canonical says they will work with hardware vendors to pressure them for drivers, it would seem to be easier to work with the vendors to test compatibility of hardware with individual Linux distributions. |
| jimf Feb 16, 2007 7:58 AM EDT |
> Canonical says I believe little of what Canonical says ;-) Incidentally, the best way to get a functioning contemporary laptop is to purchase one with Linux pre-installed. Of course I'm pretty sure that some of the drivers included won't be free. |
| purplewizard Feb 16, 2007 2:53 PM EDT |
Jim you mention it being a problem with the latest and greatest. I'm in the camp where I want contemporary rather than antique for my needs. I don't really care about latest and greatest. I suspect the minority of Linux (Free OS even) users are actually totally fussed about being completely on the edge using the very latest graphics card for example. That might be different if there were substantial modern games on Linux but there aren't. (I also appreciate that might be a chicken and egg thing relating to having support for the latest gear in order to be more likely to support the games). My thought is to avoid ambition. It's sort of akin to the OLPC project. Yes I want to be modern but the biggest concern is being able to get parts that are 100% functional with Linux. That allows the database to be small. It's also like sticking a label on saying "built for Linux" or should that be "Linux Ready". In my wildest dream if there were just three grades of each component listed somewhere that said "100% Linux compatible" on them and those grades were performance/price wise basic/cheap, comfortable/comfortable, high/expensive I would be happy. So all I need is one site that lists three motherboards, three graphics cards/chipsets, three dvd writers, etc... And to complete my wildest dream these components sell in increased numbers because of it getting the notice of the makers so they actually bother sticking the label on a few of their own components. |
| jimf Feb 16, 2007 3:13 PM EDT |
> contemporary Well, actually not much difference. By latest and greatest, I'm really talking about what is sold right now in the marketplace as much as cutting edge technology. Graphics cards are pretty easy to find... for example the ATI 9x00 series of cards are available and run great with the R300 xorg driver. And, I've never seen a problem with any of the current crop of DVD writers, so that's kind of a non issue. Motherboards are another issue. As I said, it's a moving target and you really need to ask what other users are finding successful. To be fair, there is a lot of difference in what runs well for windows users too. Ultimately, you just have to do your homework. Wireless cards and devices are one issue I really can't speak to, as I have everything hardwired, and, I don't like wearing tinfoil hats. I do see a lot of people still gripping, so I guess no one's gotten that together yet. |
| bigg Feb 16, 2007 5:18 PM EDT |
> I've never seen a problem with any of the current crop of DVD writers How about Lightscribe? I thought there were problems with Lightscribe support in Linux. |
| jimf Feb 16, 2007 5:40 PM EDT |
I've never even heard of Lightscribe ;-)... Ahh, ok there may be no specific app that will use that feature, still, the thing should work as a cd/dvd. Found this on it: http://technocrat.net/d/2006/10/22/9391 |
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