Novell and bad crack again
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tuxchick Jan 22, 2007 6:51 PM EDT |
90% of Vista's functionality?? For crying out loud, Novell peepul, at least smoke the good crack! Talk about damnning with faint praise. Vista does not come even close to what Linux can do. Vista has maybe 10% of Linux's functionality. On a good day. Here are just a few examples: -multiple virtual desktops -multiple users at the same time (woa, revolutionary! Windows still can't do this!) -choice of console or graphical environment, or both at the same time -secure remote graphical desktop at least four different ways (X over SSH, remote X, VNC, FreeNX) -all kinds of great free security tools: SSH, rsync, SSL, stunnel, VPN -completely customizable for every form factor from wee embedded thingies to mainframes -Virtualization without licensing handcuffs (Xen, KVM, Bochs, Qemu, etc.) -A real network stack with real network utilities -average distribution comes with email, web browser, IRC, ICQ, VoIP clients, word processors, office suites, graphics and multimedia, great screenshot apps, excellent CD/DVD writing, graphical disk partitioners, torrent clients, digital photo managers, gallery creators... -several great filesystems to choose from -Linux reads and writes all windoze filesystems. haha Windows can't read squat -all kinds of excellent desktops and window managers -gobs of business-friendly features, such as network rollouts, customizable installation images, automated patching and updates that don't have to be nervously tested before rollout -Software management so easy a Novell exec can do it. No need for clunky installation CDs; just connect to the Internet -Interoperability with multiple operating systems What Vista has that Linux lacks, poor poor Linux: -A warm, welcoming environment to even the most poorly-written, incompetent malware -A standing invitation into tens of thousands of botnets -Big Brother controlling what you do with your own property -Gargantuan hardware appetite, the Jabba of operating systems -Roadblocks to interoperability, quality, and good customer service -Zero reason to exist Please feel free to suggest more. I want to compile a giant list and make it into a LXer feature. |
| theboomboomcars Jan 22, 2007 7:17 PM EDT |
You forgot the best feature. When M$ wants more money they shut down your system and say you need to pay a new licensing fee. WGA gives me warm fuzzies all over, almost enough to get me to ditch my cute cuddly Linux system for it. |
| DarrenR114 Jan 23, 2007 8:34 AM EDT |
You forgot about Quickbooks, Autocad, many specialty speech recognition programs, EMR/EMH programs with US-specific billing modules, Electronic Design programs. There are a lot of 'niche' areas that you'll find are MS-Windows only. With such things, I wouldn't be surprised that the 90% figure is accurate. OpenOffice.org also makes much the same claim - it is mostly functionally comparable to MS-Office. But they also stress that the vast majority of users don't use the features in MS-Office that are missing in OpenOffice.org. |
| bigg Jan 23, 2007 8:50 AM EDT |
How about: easy dual-boot setup support for existing "low-end" hardware free updates (ie XP to Vista) ease of reinstallation particularly with new hardware ability to run without a graphical desktop if you are doing heavy computing and don't want to waste resources (you mentioned that one) ability to create a live cd ability to give your friend a copy Don't know if there is duplication. |
| Abe Jan 23, 2007 10:14 AM EDT |
-How about a partition ghosting tool. If any OS needs it, Windows needs it the most to backup & restore without having to re-install every app you lose when you have to re-install Windows. Linux might not need it but is handy if you lose a hard drive due to a disk crash. Also to duplicate on multiple machines - How about a backup tool for duplicating partitions similar to dd command - How about a LiveCD to install new releases and to test new releases without having to install on HD |
| jdixon Jan 23, 2007 10:16 AM EDT |
> You forgot about Quickbooks, Autocad, many specialty speech recognition programs, EMR/EMH programs with US-specific billing modules, Electronic Design programs. Those are not "Vista funcitonality". Even if we grant that the availability of said programs is a valid reason to use Windows, it's likely that the majority of those programs will need modifications to work properly with Vista. |
| number6x Jan 23, 2007 10:21 AM EDT |
Linux only provides 90% of the functionality of Windows. Linux left out that last 10% on purpose. The skipped features included the BSOD, the security holes, the irregular need for reboots, the over-reaching licensing, the high support costs, the frequent need for patches, the DRM, the lack of source code, the lack of freedoms, the need for activation, and countless other problems that plague Windows. Other than that 10%, Linux does everything else Windows can and more. But the best part is Linux just works! |
| Abe Jan 23, 2007 10:42 AM EDT |
Quoting:You forgot about Quickbooks, Autocad, many specialty speech recognition programs, EMR/EMH programs with US-specific billing modules, Electronic Design programs. There are a lot of 'niche' areas that you'll find are MS-Windows only. Yeah Darren, we are talking about Vista compared to Linux functionality and features that come in a standard distro, NOT vendor apps that run on Vista or Windows only. If you want applications, I can give you a whole long list of those niche apps. used in enterprises that are not available for Linux. Vendors beware. If third party don't shape up soon and start making their apps available on Linux, they sure will lose their chance in the future because FOSS developers will be jumping in to plug those holes. Look what happened with Office==OpenOffice, CD creators==K3B, Adobe PDF writer==slew of, etc... Many of the apps will be at a saturation point and developers will start developing outside the normal commodity applications to keep themselves entertained. |
| DarrenR114 Jan 23, 2007 10:44 AM EDT |
I think we will need to take a closer look at the actual report to find out exactly what is meant by "Vista functionality". I know that XP, and probably Vista, does have things like MSAPI (Microsoft Speech API) that no Linux kernel, or distribution for that matter, have by default. That is not to say that such things can't be easily plugged-in by a 3rd party. |
| Abe Jan 23, 2007 10:58 AM EDT |
[Quoting:MSAPI (Microsoft Speech API) that no Linux kernel, or distribution for that matter, have by defaultIf that is Open API, then you can be sure FOSS will support it. If not, may be it is a good idea to take a look at what KDE 4.0 will be coming out with some time soon. http://phonon.kde.org/ http://solid.kde.org/ MS can no longer dictate standards or APIs. FOSS is now in the creativity and innovation stage. |
| jsusanka Jan 24, 2007 10:32 AM EDT |
"You forgot about Quickbooks, Autocad, many specialty speech recognition programs, EMR/EMH programs with US-specific billing modules, Electronic Design programs. There are a lot of 'niche' areas that you'll find are MS-Windows only." here are are couple of links for you autocad http://www.linuxlinks.com/Software/Graphics/CAD/ speech recognition http://freespeech.sourceforge.net/FreeSpeech/html/ quickbooks my distro had kmymoney and gnucash - which I use extensively with my online banking and they do the job the other links are just some I came up with after doing a google search for about five minutes so there probably is more offerings. my distro also has a few circuit design programs also that look cool. the only way microsoft can win now is for them to make people who run linux criminals and with vista and drm it sounds llike they are going to try their best all in the name of content protection with the RIAA and MPAA. |
| tuxchick Jan 24, 2007 10:43 AM EDT |
I think I see the Linux desktop differently than most folks, who see it as a combination of the desktop itself plus applications. It's not always a clean division, and any desktop or window manager is useless without productivity apps, but in my mind there is a distinction. The environment underlying user's applications is zillions of times more powerful, efficient, and featureful on Linux than it is on poor old crippled Windows, which since its humble beginnings as the truly useless Windows 1.0 has had tens of billions of dollars invested in its development, and the best they can do is create an even more restrictive, buggy, bloated, useless operating system. The division between desktop environment and applications is much cleaner on Linux, thanks to its modular design. Poor old obese Windows is one big muddle, with everything dependent on everything else, rendering it completely inflexible and barely able to get out of its own way. I'm disappointed that the folks at Novell can't come up with better marketing than this, it's really pitiful how they miss everything, and I mean every last thing, that sets Linux apart. Saying it costs less for somewhat less functionality is just another form of Microsoft propaganda. |
| jsusanka Jan 24, 2007 11:03 AM EDT |
"my distro also has a few circuit design programs also that look cool." don't know why I didn't name them but here are a few qucs ngspice kicad xciruit |
| bigg Jan 24, 2007 11:13 AM EDT |
> Saying it costs less for somewhat less functionality is just another form of Microsoft propaganda. Maybe that was part of the agreement. |
| jimf Jan 24, 2007 11:20 AM EDT |
jsusanka, There are circuit design apps in Linux, though not the best, and also free, but not open source CAD. This is one area that could use a lot of work. Autocad, for example, has mid tier business by the short hairs with a virtual monopoly. That really needs to change if we expect them to transition to Linux. |
| jsusanka Jan 24, 2007 1:43 PM EDT |
"jsusanka, There are circuit design apps in Linux, though not the best, and also free, but not open source CAD. This is one area that could use a lot of work. Autocad, for example, has mid tier business by the short hairs with a virtual monopoly. That really needs to change if we expect them to transition to Linux." oh please - that is just an excuse - the point is there are cad apps available. if someone wants autocad for linux then they need to go to vendor and tell them. threaten to use somebody else that does support linux - you are the customer tell them what you want as far as "not the best" that is subjective - I think command line programs are the best (more effecient and flexible) but that doesn't mean it is true. |
| jdixon Jan 24, 2007 2:05 PM EDT |
> ...but not open source CAD. There are opensource CAD programs, but I don't think there's anything in Autocad's class. For a list of free, cheap, or opensource progams for various platforms see: http://www.eland.org.uk/pages/Misc/cadnotes.html |
| jimf Jan 24, 2007 2:53 PM EDT |
qcad is probably the most useful of the bunch. Quite useable, but only for 2D and 3D wireframe. |
| DarrenR114 Jan 25, 2007 6:07 AM EDT |
I think that any "MS propaganda" may be in the way that CBR presented their take on the report. What such a report does is assist the Novell salesforce to go to any potential major customer and say to them in essence "Hey Mr. Customer, we can meet 90% of your needs *immediately* at 10% of your usual cost." Such a pitch is very compelling - and not at all good for MS. It's a foot-in-the-door kind of thing. Because Mr. Customer then considers how to take that 90% savings and satisfy the other 10% of requirements with a fraction of that leftover money. As for the quality of add-on software such as Autocad - for shops that are entrenched with it, and facing software upgrade costs, if you can't support Autocad, you aren't going to get in the door. Current Open Source alternatives are not "good enough" for such operations. Autocad aside, I was once doing work for a small company that had a single electronic hardware engineer on staff. To do his job to the quality that he was able to do with the two MS-based products would have taken jumping through several Open Source Electronic Design hoops, slowing him down significantly. The owner of the company was not adverse to using Linux - we based our entire custom designed Point-Of-Sale terminal on embedded Linux. It just would not have been cost-effective to switch products for the hardware engineer. Now, some people mentioned that this is an "add-on" issue, and not about "Vista functionality". I did mention the MSAPI as one bit of functionality that I was aware of that there was no default equivalent in Linux - in distributions or kernel. Also, have you forgotten that IE is embedded in the OS? There is no embedded browser in the Linux kernel. And I don't believe there should be. I guess what I'm saying is that the "90% functionality of Vista" is not necessarily a negative or "MS-propaganda", but the way it was portrayed in the CBR article certainly is. |
| Abe Jan 25, 2007 10:08 AM EDT |
Quoting:"Hey Mr. Customer, we can meet 90% of your needs *immediately* at 10% of your usual cost."That is totally different from saying "Linux product provides 90% of Vista's functionality and 10% of the price.". Don't you think! It looks like, either you are putting words in Novell's mouth, or the article is twisting Novell's words! I wish I know which is true. |
| jimf Jan 25, 2007 11:29 AM EDT |
Linux is, without doubt, a much more capable, secure, and stable platform than anything MS has ever produced. About the only area of performance where Windows prevails any more is in video drivers. In the category of server apps, most experts concede that Linux wins hands down. Either KDE or Gnome provide at least as good (I'd say far superior) a Desktop, and, it's only in the area of niche apps and video drivers that Linux continues to play catch up. Also note that Linux does continue to close the gap at a breathtaking pace. So... 90% of what functionality? There's a huge suspension of credibility here. Could we just as easily say that Windows offers 75% of Linux stability? And, 50% of the security? And yeah, Linux is really inexpensive to run. It's just a very poor way to promote Linux. |
| dcparris Jan 25, 2007 9:36 PM EDT |
In my well-known straw polls, the majority of those still dual-booting were either gamers or office workers tied - emotionally or technically - to one or two apps. Incidentally, very few of those were custom apps. Mostly things like Quicken/Books, AutoCAD, Photoshop, some video editor, etc. Not one person reported being tied to MS Office functionality or similar issues. Darren, I'm glad to hear you say you don't believe a browser should be embedded in the kernel. I view that "functionality" as a bug, not a desirable feature. You almost had me worried... ;-) |
| jimf Jan 25, 2007 10:00 PM EDT |
> I view that "functionality" as a bug, not a desirable feature. Or, a virus. Like so many other wonderful Windows 'features'... |
| dcparris Jan 25, 2007 10:11 PM EDT |
Sorry Jim. I thought IE was the virus. |
| Sander_Marechal Jan 25, 2007 10:27 PM EDT |
IE is a virus by any definition you throw at it. It installs without consent, runs without consent, slows down your system, can't be contained and it downloads all kinds of other malware. The only thing it doesn't do is spread to other computers because it is *already* on every MS computer. |
| jimf Jan 25, 2007 10:48 PM EDT |
> I thought IE was the virus. Actually, the whole Windows OS is root-kited by design. |
| dcparris Jan 25, 2007 10:48 PM EDT |
Fortunately, like most viruses, it is mostly restricted to Windows. |
| azerthoth Jan 26, 2007 9:28 AM EDT |
Not true Mr. P, you can indeed install this windows virus into linux. Like many other windows virii though it does take some work on your part to get it in, and then a whole lot more work to get it to do anything like what it was supposed to do. I remember reading an article some time back about someone who had collected up some of the more virulent windows virii and putting them into his Linux box. Even with him actively helping them they managed to work about like one expects microsoft software to work (barely), and they took constant babysitting to keep operating. The ones that could actually be made to operate. |
| helios Jan 26, 2007 1:57 PM EDT |
",,,if someone wants autocad for linux then they need to go to vendor and tell them. threaten to use somebody else that does support linux - you are the customer tell them what you want." Well that's worked astoundingly well with Nvidia, ATI, Quickbooks and TurboTax now hasn't it. If I could have the money and time I've spent lobbying and visiting these people about just this issue, I could take a cruise to Roatan. Look it up. And book me we with you the next time you go. Heavens it is nice. h |
| tuxchick Jan 26, 2007 2:06 PM EDT |
Lobbying is a feeble weapon against microshaft's wealthy bullying. |
| Abe Jan 26, 2007 2:33 PM EDT |
Quoting:",,,if someone wants autocad for linux then they need ...I read some where that the EU is trying to force AutoDesk to make AutoCAD available for Linux, that might help. But give them time and they will come around. In the mean time, we should boycott them as much as we can. One other thing we should do, make an example of others who come around and support Linux but we keep boycotting them by buying from other who supported Linux from the start. We should be serious about this issue. Adobe is a good example |
| azerthoth Jan 26, 2007 3:09 PM EDT |
Quoting:but we keep boycotting them by buying from other who supported Linux from the start Huh? how in the world is that an inducement to support linux at all? CEO: We need to get into the linux market. Advertising Exec: There is a boycott on anyone who hasnt supported linux from the start, and we havent. CEO: oh well, It was a thought, but if they dont want us then phooey on them. |
| Abe Jan 26, 2007 6:38 PM EDT |
Don't take me too seriously. Sometimes I just like to mumble |
| dcparris Jan 26, 2007 7:13 PM EDT |
> Not true Mr. P, I did say "mostly" - not completely. ;-) |
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